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Apr—How to Be a Woman (2016)
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Great Quotes
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"Don't call it sexism. Call it "manners" instead. [but straight-up ungentlemanliness, of the kind his mother would clatter the back of his head for, is inarguable.] See the whole world as "the guys" is important. The idea that we're all, at the end of the day, just a bunch of well-meaning schlumps trying to get along is the basic alpha and omega of my worldview. I'm neither "pro-woman" nor "anti-men." I'm just "Thumbs up for the six billion.""
Krynne wrote: ""Don't call it sexism. Call it "manners" instead. [but straight-up ungentlemanliness, of the kind his mother would clatter the bad of hid head for, is inarguable.] See the whole world as "the guys"..."I get this...I really do. BUT there are still such specific sexist comments that translate into lower wages and less equality that I don't feel we are quite ready to ignore the sexism part of it all. Yes we are all supposed to have good manners but when a polite man offers me 22 cents less an hour for the same job...,it's still polite sexism.
Sandy wrote: "Krynne wrote: ""Don't call it sexism. Call it "manners" instead. [but straight-up ungentlemanliness, of the kind his mother would clatter the bad of hid head for, is inarguable.] See the whole worl..."Yes, but what about Homosexuals, Pansexuals, Transexuals and other Gender Bending Groups? These are men and women that are also not treated with the same equality and fairness as a straight men. They may not be considered for a job or lose their current position based on the their sexual identity.
Sexism is never polite. Polite Sexism is an oxymoron. Having manners and being polite is more than "thank you's and please's". Manners is based on treating others with the same fairness and consideration that you expect for yourself. In shorter terms, treating others as YOU would like to be treated. In our patriarchal society, there are more and more groups of people that are not being treated with equality or fairness. These groups of people include both men and women. A sexist attitude, (whether it be a man's sexist view on women, OR a woman's sexist view on men), are not going to get our society anywhere. With the idea of gender identity expanding, and people continually bending the gender norms the term "sexism" is starting to sound a bit old-fashioned and outdated. Until our world is "Pro the Six Billion", there will still be issues with equality and treating people fairly. Changing our language and how we perceive equality is the first step to a better world.
Emma wrote: "I agree with Krynne. Sexism is not polite, regardless of it is intentional or not. Changing the language of sexism brings us one step closer to equality. And I think it is important to note that so..."OFTEN it is not intentional because those of us who live in privilege are amazingly unaware of how privilege actually plays out.
My favorite quote so far: “Instead, Greer says, 'I am a feminist' in a perfectly calm, logical, and entitled way. It sounds like the solution to a puzzle that’s been going on for years. Greer says it with entitlement and pride: the word is a prize that billions of women, for the span of human history, fought to win. This is the vaccine against the earlier pioneers’ failure. This is the atmosphere that would sustain us all in space: the piece of equipment we’ve all been missing. This is what will keep us alive.”This part was awesome! I've noticed that when I mention being a feminist to people I haven't always felt confident in saying it, but now I feel more empowered to be a feminist and I'm not going to care what people think anymore!
It's too much to type up but pages 95-96 had me crying aloud with mirth
Emily wrote: "It's too much to type up but pages 95-96 had me crying aloud with mirth "Agreed, I don't think I've ever laughed so hard at a book! I was on a train with a couple of middle-aged men on either side shaking with silent laughter over her description of 21st century porn earlier in the book
"Once upon a time, a girl with long nails and a really bad outfit sat on a sofa, trying to look sexy, but actually looking like she'd just remembered a vexing, unpaid parking fine. She might be slightly cross-eyed due to how tight her bra is. A man comes in - a man who walks rather oddly, as if he's carrying an invisible garden chair in front of him. This is because he's got a uselessly large penis, which is erect, and appears to be scanning the room for the most sexually disinterested thing in it. Having rejected the window and a vase, the cock finally homes in on the girl on the sofa" etc.
Sandy wrote: "Krynne wrote: ""Don't call it sexism. Call it "manners" instead. [but straight-up ungentlemanliness, of the kind his mother would clatter the bad of hid head for, is inarguable.] See the whole worl..."I believe, offering someone less money for the same job because of your genitalia is insulting. And insulting someone is rude.
My favorite quote so far is on page 88: "What is feminism? Simply the belief that women should be free as men, however nuts, dim, deluded, badly dressed, fat, receding, lazy and smug they might be"
This is simply what feminism means. And nothing else, as some women and men make it to be.
As for "polite" sexism...http://www.bustle.com/articles/131418...
Also, genuine politeness should come with no expectation of reward. Often men who do those little gestures like opening a door etc will not act nicely if a woman rejects their help or doesn't give them positive attention in return.
The vagina test is cissexist. Just imagine a young teen who's not sure if they identify as a woman or not (or already identifies as a man or non-binary), only to have it erased because they have a vagina.
I liked that line when I first saw the quote but then I noticed the ableism :/And plenty of men are not exactly free when they're perceived exactly as what she describes - "nuts, dim, badly dressed, fat, lazy". They don't get these labels as easily as women and some are very specific*, but male privilege doesn't free you from other types of discrimination.
*for example "badly dressed" isn't a typical insult against men but men are also policed for how they dress, especially if there's anything feminine about that.
Emma wrote: "Daniela wrote: "My favorite quote so far is on page 88: "What is feminism? Simply the belief that women should be free as men, however nuts, dim, deluded, badly dressed, fat, receding, lazy and sm..."
Same here! This is one of the quotes I highlighted. I love how Caitlin focuses on equality, and how she stresses that being a feminist does not concern your character, or generally who you are in other aspects.
One of my favorite quote, that I actually used, is: "Fool. FOOL. Bra is my friend. My bosomest buddy. My inti-mate. Except for that balcony-cup Janet Reger one that was an inch too small and cut off the circulation to my head. Yeah. That one, I covered in gas and touched it outside the American embassy."I love it because (1) it's just fuuny, and (2) not all feminist go bra-less. I actual got to us the quote earlier this week when my sister saw me reading this book, and started asking if I was going to start going bra-less and burning them. After I quoted Caitlin Moran, I politely remind my sister that my tatas are too big to go without a bra unless U want a back rub every night.
Some of my favorites (besides the ones that have already been mentioned) are: (the following is from page 33)
So no. Pornography isn't the problem. Strident feminists are fine with pornography. It's the porn industry that's the problem. The whole thing is as offensive, sclerotic, depressing, emotionally bankrupt, and desultory as you would expect a widely unregulated industry worth, at an extremely conservative estimate, $30 billion to be. No industry ever made that amount of money without being superlatively crass and dumb.
(The following is from page 112-113)
Overeating is the addiction of choice of carers, and that's why it's come to be regarded as the lowest-ranking of all the addictions. It's a way of fucking yourself up while still remaining fully functional, because you have to. Fat people aren't indulging in the "luxury" of their addictions making them useless, chaotic, or a burden. Instead, they are slowly self-destructing in a way that doesn't inconvenience anyone. And that's why it's so often a woman's addiction of choice. All the quietly eating mums. All the KitKats in office drawers. All the unhappy moments, late at night, caught only in the fridge lights.
(The following is from page 153)
She is a true mirror, I think. I should look into her more often. I can see myself in there. I can see my good points and my bad points--but I recognize that face. I feel like I haven't seen that face in a long, long time. Not since I was a child.
(The following is from page 155)
Courtney looks at me with a combination of fury, self-pity, and a vast amount of cocaine. But he looks like he will take me back if I truly apologize. If I really mean it. If I love him. If, in my heart, I love him.
"Can we keep the maracas?" I ask.
The list of 4 things you actually need in your handbag mentioned in page 201.
Number 6 of page 208.
(the following is from page 231)
"Have kids?" I hooted. "Have kids? Dude, the mice in my kitchen have starved to death because I never have anything in. I can't even care for vermin. Have Kids. HAHAHAHAHAA"
(the following is from page 271)
In that instance, my body had decided that that baby was not to be and had ended it. This time, it is my mind that has decided that this baby was not to be. I don't believe one's decision is more valid than the other. They both know me. They are both equally capable of deciding what is right.
I just read this one in page 283"Death is not a release, but an incentive."
Emma wrote: "Sandy wrote: "But for years and years I complained about the fact that there was no good , appropriate name for a woman's hoo-ha...Finally Caitlin, with great humor, names the discussion and unpack..."I loved that "how to figure out if you are a feminist" bit too. I copied it down in my notes, along with the words "excludes men (sad face)" I liked that it made the issue simple. I didn't love that it ignored folks who would describe themselves as "strident feminists" but don't in fact have a vagina.
I liked the quotes mentioned above, plus:Page 75: I realized that it's technically impossible for a woman to argue about feminism. Without feminism, you wouldn't be ALLOWED to have a debate on women's place in society.
Also: The purpose of feminism isn't to make a particular TYPE of woman.
Page 91 (talking about undies that are too small): Batman doesn't have to put up with this shit-- why should we?
(side note-- this inspired me to make much more COMFORTABLE decisions when it comes to underwear choices)
Page 95: My breasts wish the rest of me well, but they are just not going to make it.
Page 132: Simply being able to vote isn't the same as true equality. It's difficult to see the glass ceiling because it's made of glass. Virtually invisible. What we need is for some more birds to fly above it and shit all over it, so we can see it properly.
Page 150: The people around you are mirrors. You see yourself reflected in their eyes. If the mirror is true, and smooth, you see your true self. That's how you learn who you are. And you might be a different person to different people, but it's all feedback that you need, in order to know yourself.
Page 204: When a woman says "I have nothing to wear!" what she really means is, "there is nothing here for who I am supposed to be today."
um it also excludes trans women... and can alienate trans men and non-binary afab* people instead of helping them become feminists because some feminist issues concern everyone who has a vagina.*afab=assigned female at birth
Marina wrote: "um it also excludes trans women... and can alienate trans men and non-binary afab* people instead of helping them become feminists because some feminist issues concern everyone who has a vagina.*a..."
Marina,
I am not trying to come off rude, or to seem like I am attacking your opinions. It is very clear to me that you did not enjoy this memoir at all. I frequently read through all the group discussions, and have noticed that you have brought the same opinion to the majority of the groups regardless if that opinion applies to the topic being discussed. If you do feel this strongly about your opinion, I suggest starting a discussion board based on your ideas of Cissexist, and Ableism found in this book.
I was just responding to erika's note that this definition of feminism excludes men (message #23). she wrote a new comment while i was replying.
I'm glad to see some members who found this book laugh-out-loud funny. I couldn't stop laughing at certain parts of this book. I find Moran's take on some of these issues very refreshing and love how she took taboo issues and try to make them part of an everyday conversation.My favorite quotes were:
"What do you think feminism IS ladies? What part of 'liberation for women' is not for you? Is it freedom to vote? The campaign for equal pay? 'Vogue' by Madonna? Jeans? Did all that good sh** GET ON YOUR NERVES?"
and
"...I now believe that there are only four things a grown, modern woman should have: a pair of yellow shoes (they unexpectedly go with everything), a friend who will come and post bail at 4 a.m., a fail-safe pie recipe, and proper muff."
For example, I was from the school that says you can't reclaim words such as "cunt"...even with the The Vagina Monologues brilliant "cunt" scene. (I was in Madison Square Garden for the 1st "V Day" where Glenn Close did the "Cunt" scene and had 40,00 people chanting "cunt".) As Caitin says, "I love that the word "cunt" stands on its own, as the supreme unvanquishable word....We can't say the word. It's too powerful." Such a powerful reclamation of a word that "in my day" would have seemed too far gone. I still don't like to use it or have it used around or to me but it does give me a new perspective.
But for years and years I complained about the fact that there was no good , appropriate name for a woman's hoo-ha (thank you Oprah for that one). I seemed to be the only one that thought this was important. I annoyed everyone with my bitching about it. Finally Caitlin, with great humor, names the discussion and unpacks the negative terms in a way that is accessible.
Yes, this book is primarily from a white middle class perspective. But that doesn't diminish it's validity and we are all here to learn. She has written as if she knew/knows me, so it is speaking to many of us I am sure. I don't agree with everything she says...and sometimes I would like to add a caveat here and there. And this is good. It's only the 4th book...there will be many more to come... hopefully with intersectionality in mind.
But I think one of the main things I am going to take from this book is that it's time to laugh at the patriarchal crap that is said in my presence. Laugh at it and give it no power. Oh I will still fight for the things that need a strong and perhaps angry voice. But in my day to day life, it's time to laugh as if what has been said is just too stupid to be taken seriously.
And I LOVE LOVE LOVE her insight into the power of the porn industry in shaping our young people's view of desire and sexuality. "And that's when I started thinking that we need more pornography, not less...Imagine if it were about desire."
She has me looking at the feminism in my life from a whole new angle...