GreatAce.Club discussion

A bunch of people are finished or are finishing up so I thought I’ve give you more discussion questions today!

1) Do you think Moira made the right decision in the end? Why or why not?

2) How do you feel Moira handles her relationship with her mother? Do you think she should have stood up to her more, or was her approach reasonable? Why or why not?

3) Layla is the lone named asexual character in Lunaside. Do you think being at a camp full of allosexuals effected how she dealt with the other counselors at all? Why or why not?

1) Yes. A relationship with Millie wouldn't have lasted long; they were both changing too much. Plus, Moira didn't really love Millie so much as was infatuated with her.

2) I think she does the best she can. I think she should've approached it in a different way, and talked about it more, but I don't think she should've "stood up to her" so much as have a lot of informative discussions. Her mother struck me as ignorant more than anything.

3) I don't see why it would. My asexuality doesn't affect how I deal with my allo friends.

1) Yeah, but really, she shouldn't have cheated on Andrea in the first place. That being said, I think Moira loves Andrea more than Millie.

2) I don't know. How can you quickly change your mother's mind? I agree with Rielly on this one.

3) I get why it can be lonely for her sometimes, since she's the only ace character. Honestly, her asexuality didn't get discussed that much, so I can't really decide.

1) Totally. If I first I was hoping Moira would break up with Andrea, I'm happy everything goes well in the end. At the begining her relationship with Andrea seemed so fake to me and even more considering how quickly she developped "feelings" for someone else. Plus, the whole "I don't wanna do "couple stuff" and be seen in public" reminded me that time I "dated" a guy and I didn't wanted anyone to know because, actually, I wasn't ok with this relationship in many ways & for many reasons. So I first thought it was kind of like that with Moira, than deep down she didn't want to date Andrea. But during my reading I realized how it was different from my old case, and that they did love each other in a good way for having this kind of relationship.

2) Well, I agree with Rielly: I think she did the best she could. It wasn't so bad but as often in relationship stuff, it wasn't perfect.

3) We didn't see Layla that much, neither we saw how counselors interacted during bonfire for example. So I can't say. I don't think it would have change anything, except feeling quite lonely (but not really much more than usual). Maybe if the counselors were talking a lot about sex or if there were lots of relationships dramas, but it didn't seem like that so I guess it was ok and didn't change anything.

I'm assuming it's fine to include spoilers, seeing as we're discussing the ending XD

1) Well, in the story the decision is written as pretty straightforward: Moira loves Andrea and was only infatuated with Millie. I like that she didn't end up just getting swept off her feet by Millie (aka the "abstract ideal") like in so many romance novels, but I also think the ending was a bit of a cop-out and really oversimplified a lot of things, especially after all the buildup of everybody insisting they were perfect for each other. (The aromantic in me firmly believes that all that unnecessary romance nonsense killed what could have been an amazing friendship between Millie and Moira.) I also thought the conversation of polyamory could have been done better-- her logic against it was a bit hazy and I don't like how peremptorily Moira dismissed it as soon as the term was tossed out there-- but that's partly just my disappointment talking because in the beginning I was seriously hoping the book would end up with a polyamorous relationship.

2) I think it's a lot easier to say what Moira perhaps should have done about her relationship with her mother than for somebody to actually go and do the thing itself; relationships are often complicated that way. I agree with Yue in that Moira's mother definitely needed some time to consider her reaction and her behavior scripting on her own and that earlier attempts to change her mind perhaps wouldn't have been too effective.

3) As my first ace book club read, the beginning of the book honestly felt like a Where's Waldo search for me, trying to pinpoint the ace character. Layla's inclusion felt a bit like the author was just trying to check off that extra diversity/inclusivity box. Her asexuality spiel in the teahouse could've been lifted straight off one of those Asexuality 101 posts, which I guess is good for people outside the ace community to be exposed to, but honestly I've heard/read it a thousand and one times before. It also really bugged me that Moira sees her as a sort of "grown-up four-year-old," when in my personal experience a lot of people see me as childish solely/largely because of my disinterest in sex/romance.
But anyways, to answer the actual question (I get sidetracked easily), Layla explicitly says that she "just feel[s] like such an outsider" in reference to her asexuality, though it's never really apparent in her written interactions with the other characters. She's pretty headstrong and outgoing, which aren't really traits associated with being an "outsider," though that's not to say she can't sometimes feel like one. Ultimately, being at a place full of allosexuals is pretty much the norm in life, so I'm guessing Layla just deals with the other counselors the same way she deals with everybody else in the world.

Lily wrote: "I'm assuming it's fine to include spoilers, seeing as we're discussing the ending XD

1) Well, in the story the decision is written as pretty straightforward: Moira loves Andrea and was only infatu..."

About no. 3: Exactly! This was my first book with the Ace Book Club too, and I liked Lunaside, but I couldn't help but wonder why we had to read this book. Sure, Layla is asexual, but there is nothing about it. It also felt like Douglas just added Layla for nothing but diversity. Which isn't necessarily a bad thing, because not every minor character has to have a big storyline, and one of the traps many LGBTQ/mogai books fall in is that the sexuality of the main character is the only interesting thing about them. But for a book for the Ace Book Club, it felt a bit weird.

I did like that they talked about the 'Asexuality 101', but like Lily said, that's more for allosexuals.

At one point I kinda expected Moira to be ace, because she did talk about how she never felt any urges for Andrea. But then she slept with Andrea, so that theory kinda went away. I know that there are also aces that have seks and enjoy sex, but her feelings on this never got mentioned again. Kinda felt like a missed opportunity.

Lily wrote: "I'm assuming it's fine to include spoilers, seeing as we're discussing the ending XD

1) Well, in the story the decision is written as pretty straightforward: Moira loves Andrea and was only infatu..."

I agree so much on the polyamory stuff! When the mum mentionned it I was so happy, expecting some great conversation about it, Moira considering it, thinking about it. But actually Moira was so not for it, which I get, but she was a bit too much reluctant to the idea. Like if what her mum was saying was absurdity when it actually was a good point. Having a polyamorous relationship would have make the book way more interesting tbh. I think, for a second while I was reading, I seriously thought it was gonna take this way, so it disappointed me too.

Oh, Yuè posted while I was writing, so I'm editing x) (yeah I'm not finished):
About Moira being asexual; I felt that too. At first I almost related to her because of her feelings about sex, but then it quickly turned out the problem was mainly doing it when her parents were home (that's what I felt at least), plus the fact that it was her first time. And even if she still could be ace, it didn't feel like it anymore. Moreover, I think that if she was, it would have been say. In this kind of book where sexuality and romance are a main point and where asexuality is even mentionned, it feels wrong to have a main character in the ace spectrum and not explicity saying it.

Yuè wrote: "Lily wrote: "I'm assuming it's fine to include spoilers, seeing as we're discussing the ending XD

1) Well, in the story the decision is written as pretty straightforward: Moira loves Andrea and wa..."

I guess the lack of asexual characters kind of shows just how underrepresented asexuality is in literature in general, if this is the most we can find. Although I do know that we're focusing on indie books and/or ones with ace authors, both of which this book fits, so that's probably part of why it was chosen guess the lack of asexual characters kind of shows just how underrepresented asexuality is in literature in general, if this is the most we can find. Although I do know that we're focusing on indie books and/or ones with ace authors, both of which this book fits, so that's probably part of why it was chosen.

And yeah, there was one point in the book where Bailey was reading Millie's attractiveness and Moira thought that "talking about people in such a sexual way has just always unnerved me. It doesn't do justice to the person's whole self," and I thought she might be demi or gray, but it never really came up again. It honestly kind of made me think of queerbaiting, how it got my hopes up then never went anywhere, not that this is at all the kind of book to do that or anything-- as Karten said, it just wouldn't fit the book to have Moira identify as ace-spectrum and it never be mentioned. I suppose she could just have ace tendencies and not actively identify as ace maybe, but even that's kinda meh.

Karten wrote: "1) Totally. If I first I was hoping Moira would break up with Andrea, I'm happy everything goes well in the end. At the begining her relationship with Andrea seemed so fake to me and even more cons..."

I also didn't really get Moira's relationship with Andrea and was hoping they would break up. Even by the end I never really understood why she loved Andrea, and I guess that was part of the book, loving someone and not really having a reason, but I can't relate to relationships like that, so the whole time I wanted Moira to end up with Millie instead, because they actually had things in common and seemed to connect on a deeper level than Andrea and Moira ever did.

Regarding Layla's asexuality, the author wrote about that a little in this article: http://www.gayya.org/?p=3238. "she’s a side character I created mostly for me". She also says that she basically wrote Moira as ace at first, but then her beta readers said she needed sexual tension, so she changed it. That article makes me really wish I could read the book as the author first wrote it, because I also thought Moira seemed kind of ace at the beginning and related to her because of that, and was disappointed at how she became less relatable as the story went on, and how the ending was her basically becoming "normal".

Lily wrote: "It also really bugged me that Moira sees her as a sort of "grown-up four-year-old," when in my personal experience a lot of people see me as childish solely/largely because of my disinterest in sex/romance."

That bothered me too, that our only ace character was depicted as childish. And did anyone else get the sense that Moira didn't really like her/found her annoying? That also made me a bit sad, especially when Moira was good friends with several of the other counselors; it would have been cool if someone she actually knew/liked better was ace.