Imagine Me Gone discussion

I really like this cover with the missing N and O.

Thankyou Maya :-)

Maybe NO is part of the message in the book.

we are about to find out :)

Hi guys, I hope Monday is not too terrible for you :)

I read the first three chapters: Alec, Michael and Margaret. Hope we get the chance to chat tonight.

Hi Maya,

thankfully I do not have to work today, only studying (which I love. :)). I will read during the day and talk to you all tonight!

Have a wonderful day, everyone. :)

Another interesting article by AH:
http://lithub.com/the-perpetual-solit...

Hi girls. Going to take a break soon and read a bit as well. Grey Monday here not usual for our Mays.

Maya wrote: "Another interesting article by AH:
http://lithub.com/the-perpetual-solit..."

as usual you find great articles - i ended up highlighting the article and then I wondered what I was doing highlighting on the internet :D

Found it on his Facebook author page.
https://www.facebook.com/AdamHaslettA...

I'm glad I read it while I was early in the story, now I know how personal this book is.

---

I read almost 20% today, it flows very easily for me. Will not post spoilers now, will wait to see where you're all at.

I've read up to 7% - and yes it flows. The first two chapters make me need to know more.

Uh, ok, here are my thoughts so far (in spoiler tags) – long post ahead. Chapters aren’t numbered which makes it difficult to reference but I’ve read the following:
Alec
Michael
Margaret
Celia
Margaret
Celia
Michael – ends at 20% in the epub format.

John (view spoiler)[one of the most curious things about John is why he wants so much to return to the UK, to their former lives. It doesn’t seem to be his parents (who, of course, we’ve only seen through Margaret’s PoV so, but still). I don’t know what he thinks this change (or return) will bring for him and his family. It's actually scaring me a little.

The scene in the boat with Celia and Alec was ... not sure what word to use. Cruel but also caring of him? I’m beginning to think that Margaret is not truthful in her description of John when she says he doesn’t talk about anything unless asked. I think she is and always be scared of what he’s thinking and planning, and because he knows about her fear he keeps it all inside him.

Also, very interesting why John wouldn’t spend alone time with Michael. Does he see himself in M, recognize something too familiar? (hide spoiler)]

Margaret - (view spoiler)[so interesting to see her from her PoV and then from Celia and Michael’s. She presents herself as the ever understanding and patient but from the kids’ PoVs that doesn’t seem to be the case. She is still bringing up the question of their stored furniture in the UK which means she holds grudges and is not so patient about John’s lack of organization.

But the passages in her first chapter when she explained how she rediscovers John every time when he returns to her after having a depressive period, how that kept the newness as if in a beginning of their romance – at first I totally bought it but then I thought maybe that’s an illusion she’s created for herself, a coping mechanism. I hope I’m wrong. :( I sympathize with her. (hide spoiler)]

Alec - (view spoiler)[always left out because of the age difference, seems like the sweetest kid, only needing some attention and cuddling. His reaction in the boat was completely understandable considering he’s 7 years old and the image of his father gone brings nothing but paralyzing fear. (hide spoiler)]

Celia - (view spoiler)[seems older for her age, a peacemaker (probably not by choice) and a doer. I think she's awesome. (hide spoiler)]

And finally Michael – omg! (view spoiler)[those letters from the ship he wrote to ‘aunt Penny’ (his diary maybe?) – obviously all coming from his imagination, and I’m probably projecting from that AH article but Michael making up these stories about the people he loves speak of his loneliness.

This though:
“and know that while this move of ours has turned into a major bore, the five of us have our eyes fixed on one another like cement.”
says more about how this family functions than everything that Margaret described in such great details. I don’t know, sounds like they are so dependable on each other, so fragile, always observing the others, as if if one element breaks the whole thing will collapse. And the fact that a kid senses that ... (hide spoiler)]

I'm in your second Celia - better not touch your spoilers yet.

Sofia wrote: "I'm in your second Celia - better not touch your spoilers yet."

Ok, we are close then.

Celia's PoV is very eye-opening.

End of second Michael 18% mobi

(view spoiler)[each of them is living the same life so differently. Not one has the absolutely true version whilst each ones true all the same.

Margarent is ever aware that she has to be the strong one, the one in control. Being a bit of a control freak myself i know it is extra hard for her to have no control on their future. She may have accepted that John might have another episode but all else must be under control. I think she's worried that michael might be like John and that she cannot protect him from that.

Those letters of Michael are adultly wicked. He takes his aunts fears and feeds them back to her. At the same time his analogies to the black slave trade are painfully true. Might seem funny that but it isn't.

Still we get no John pov. (hide spoiler)]

Sofia wrote: "End of second Michael 18% mobi"

Agree about Margaret.

Hey guys, I am at 13%, but as predicted, it is a very hard read for me right now.

I think when I was reading You are Not a Stranger Here with you, I was in a depressive episode. In these times, I usually get obsessed by everything to do with depression, because to drown oneself in melancholia and to read about other interesting characters with depression sometimes has something very beautiful and sad to it. And I like that a lot, when I am like this.

Now I juggle an upcoming move, some difficult times at work because of me quitting my job in 3 months and my studies. I found a new job in Stuttgart (where my family lives), and the company will pay for my studies, so I look forward to that a lot.

It is exhausting and exciting, and I cannot afford to think about my depression too much right now.

So I think I will call it quits, because some things just feel too close to a lot of things I thought in the past. The Imagine me Gone-game was a very clever way to describe the wish of most people with depression to just stop existing, without it affecting our loved ones too much. And the recurring nature of those depressive episodes of John, the look from the outside (by Margaret) on his apathy and the changes in his character was very interesting.

Even I feel like I am a different person, when I remember what I am thinking/how I am acting in those episodes. Depressive thoughts seem so strange, pointless and stupid (from a rational perspective), but they are so incredibly important and immobilizing in the moment you have them.

And then, if you are lucky(like me right now), they are gone for some time and it seems like there is hope for a new beginning again. I hope they will not come again, but they usually do. But that is okay, as long as I manage to build a more stable life for myself.

I also loved it that in the interview, Haslett wrote that he initially did not blame his own father for his suicide, seeing it as a consequence of his illness instead of his father's fault. When I confessed my former suicidal thoughts for the first time to someone, they began to shout at me that it was my fault and to blame me for having them. This was understandable, but a little bit unfair, because suicidal thoughts are not something you wish for. So it feels kind of good? to read about someone with all the reason to be mad being so understanding. I also loved the stuff Haslett said about the difficulty of intimacy in our lives after his talk with his babysitter. He seems like a great guy. Thanks for the link, Maya! :)

So I hope you have a lot of fun this week! It seems like a very good read, like everything we read from Haslett so far.

And I am very sorry for bailing on you.

I look forward to our next Buddy Read (I think we wanted to read Americanah next? :) )

Love and Hugs, Carol

No worries, Carol!
I totally understand that all these changes ahead of you take a lot of your time and energy and you need to be in a good place to move forward.

In my spoiler about John above I said that the Imagine me gone game he played with Celia and Alec on the boat was both cruel and caring of him, and I want to think that he's preparing them for the possibility of his depression returning and that he has not come up with the game because suicide is on his mind at all times.

But judging by AH's article I think I know where things are headed for this family. So, yeah, I think you are making the right decision.

xx

Thank you for understanding, Maya.

And you are right, I also think that he is preparing them for the eventuality that his depression might return. Cruel and caring is a good description.

Good night! :)

I'm sorry girls, i fell asleep last night. I think you're being super Carol. It takes guts to work with what you get instead of pretending that we are superheroes.

I too notice that when i read these kind of books my thoughts, mood go in certain directions which might not always be tgat good for me.

And Good morning of course :D

Reading more later

Good morning :)

21% Alec
(view spoiler)[the lengths this kid would go to get some attention. So sad :(

And John's depression is apparently back. Things will get tougher from here on. (hide spoiler)]

thank you for your kind words, Sofia. :) Have a wonderful morning and a good week/interesting BR, you two!

Maya wrote: "21% Alec "


(view spoiler)[there is also an element of naked excitement as well isnt there? : D (hide spoiler)]

Sofia wrote: "Maya wrote: "21% Alec "


[spoilers removed]"

I'm somewhere in the next chapter - John. He makes an interesting comment re what you said in your spoiler.

I just read all of John's chapter and yes I saw that and I smiled.

John (view spoiler)[This chapter was a tough read. Wandering, slightly boring, depressing, but certain parts were touching:

his visiting or talking to each of his children - "it's impossible, what I'm trying to do. To say goodbye without telling them I'm leaving."
No conversation with Margaret though
his fear and certainty that Michael has the same monster

I feel kind of sad that we only knew John like this. I fear that now we will have the disintegration of Michael's life. I hope that there is some hope somewhere in this book.

I think that Margaret took on an impossible task in that it is impossible to be the strong one, the bolster always. So she ends up being the one who lays down the law, the angry one, the one that argues and shouts.

(hide spoiler)]

just finished John's chapter

(view spoiler)[not easy to read, I can't imagine how AH wrote it.
yes, the depression is the beast, the monster, the fog and when he described how it showed its faces in everything familiar, even in the faces of his children - that was tough to read.

I think so too about the book leading us now to Michael's breaking down - the first 2 chapters were quite telling.

Margaret - yes, she comes out as the bad guy here because of her 'stubborn love' as John called it. I think there was no conversation with her because he said she'd already lost him, just didn't want to admit it. He was an obligation to her while the children still saw him as a father figure, partial as he was. (hide spoiler)]

(view spoiler)[the end where the monster has his face shows the inevitability of it all. He is the monster and ge cannot escape himself. (hide spoiler)]

(view spoiler)[he couldn't bear going through another episode like this. He called himself a murderer - killing the people he loved and who loved him back with his existence. (hide spoiler)]

Are you ok to continue with the book?
I want to even though I'm scared.

It is sad yes. I do hope it will not leave us in a bad place. But yes lets continue.

(view spoiler)[depression is cruel because the monster so dominates the enter life of the persons, totally skews his vision, feelings, emotions. The killer within. (hide spoiler)]

Good morning Maya - time to get up :P



I've started II - Michael - the pacing is different than John - showing the difference in their character.

haha, that's basically me in the morning except my pajamas and my alarm clock don't have matching colors :D

I started it too.
You are right: while John held everything inside him Michael is like a torrent of words and thoughts and images. Makes me anxious.

about the part of Michael's chapter headed Please briefly describe your educational background:
(view spoiler)[was he obsessed with that girl or i'm seeing too much into it? oh man, and what about his going back to sleep for 45 minutes after the news of has father's death?
Wondering how much of what he wrote is true and how much is exaggerated. (hide spoiler)]

(view spoiler)[you're right he tends to obsess about his love interests - more as you go. In this whole chapter he rarely mentions his father. They seem to bith skirt around each other. I was surprised by that 45 minutes we sleep as well. It maybe shows how things were between them or else total denial or else he does not want to look his own future in the face. (hide spoiler)]

this chapter is going very slow for me, not easy to read. Michael is just ... too much.

I just finished it and yes it's hard going. This is to help you go on

The First Cut is the Deepest - Norma Fraser - Studio One recording

phew, just finished the chapter too.

(view spoiler)[I was shocked when I read he was already in his 30s at some point.
I don't know, I think it's good that he has things that are so important to him - like the restitution for slavery. And that he so much wants and needs to be in love. And that despite all difficulties he keeps working to earn some money, to be as independent as possible. Although I guess it's more important to him to not return to the house where his mother is.

It's terrible how the doctors only filled prescriptions and didn't do much to help him. (hide spoiler)]


Going to take a break, watch something to clear my head. Although I see it's Celia's chapter next and I know she'll give us a clear perspective on how things really are.

Yes a small break is necessary

(view spoiler)[this is all from his perspective of course - the doctors might have tried to help him or not. He is flippant and goes off on tangents of course. And I think we will find that he does not give us the whole stories. It must be hard having to return to your mother's place after you've already taken the step of leaving. I would find it hard.

The slavery - racial - resitution angle made me smile - are we unconsciously choosing such such books like the black kids in UK dreaming of slavery where influenced by black music, we're influenced by Baldwin :-) (hide spoiler)]

(view spoiler)[yes, agree - he only talked about the things that he cared about the most and that's supposed to give us his view of the last, what?, 14 years of his life.

Very curious that he got obsessed with this subject at such young age. Maybe he's drawing some parallels to himself and we'll understand later? Or maybe there's a need in him to understand something that he cannot relate to directly? I don't know yet. But there must be a reason. (hide spoiler)]

Hi girls.
Sorry I bailed on you :( I've been forcing myself to analyze pointless texts for school all days and when I came home in the evenings, I couldn't stand reading anything intellectual and had to cool my brain with romance. How are you liking the book so far?

Carol, I'm so glad you have good changes in your life in the near future <3 take care, remember that hugging cats is good for you, and gets lots of sunshine :)

Apeiron wrote: "Hi girls.
Sorry I bailed on you :( I've been forcing myself to analyze pointless texts for school all days and when I came home in the evenings, I couldn't stand reading anything intellectual and h..."

It's a tough read, A.
Most chapters flow easily (chapters are narrated by 5 characters) and despite the melancholy tone of the book there's humor and as always with AH's books - tenderness and compassion. But the last chapter we just read was really very heavy. Like you I'm cooling my brain now.

Maybe when your school is in vacation we'll read something together?

Hi A

Don't know what to say about the book more than Maya just did. The writing is there. It's the story itself that's heavy.

I do hope that the romance is giving you the required shot of sweetness and light :D

Apeiron wrote: "Carol, I'm so glad you have good changes in your life in the near future <3 take care, remember that hugging cats is good for you, and gets lots of sunshine :)"

Cats are the best! Thank you so much, Apeiron. :)

The first pages of Celia's chapter:
(view spoiler)[so, she's with a man who's like her father - low energy, ill, needing to be taken care of. Subconscious choice? (hide spoiler)]

(view spoiler)[that's what i immediately noticed. Celia is doung what her Mum did, taking care of the male in her life. It's sad isn't it that our upbringing programs us this way. (hide spoiler)]

Just finished her chapter in my break.
I loved this:

(view spoiler)[“I thought you’d already gotten your exercise for the day,” he said, his eyes narrowing.
We never used to dig at each other like this on the verge of sex, poking at each other’s desire. But I did it now, too, when he approached me. I tested his motivation. It was the means we’d invented to argue over our doubts without mentioning them. We kept making each other prove we wanted each other. Right at the moment of openness, when you didn’t want to have to prove anything. (hide spoiler)]

And i still think Cecilia is great - independent and smart and strong.

I'm not sure what's more difficult: reading M's chapters or reading the others' chapters and worrying what's happening to M.

Alec @50%
(view spoiler)[ok, i mean, i know this probably wasn't supposed to make me laugh but the entire time he played with the guy on the train i imagined him as his father described him - taking off his pants on the stairs in their house, the little exhibitionist.

On a more serious note, he's still craving attention from anyone who'd give him some. I guess some things don't change. (hide spoiler)]

oh, and another thought, before i've forgotten
(view spoiler)[it's not just Michael that hasn't talked about John. Celia and Alec hadn't said a word too. (hide spoiler)]

(view spoiler)[this book does show very much how our young years matter for all of them. I see it in Celia and in Alec. I smiled at his notcing the bald spot and felt he was a bit selfish hightailing it immediately after. (hide spoiler)]