Reading Classics, Chronologically Through the Ages discussion

Sandy wrote: "I have been feeling intimated by the first 35 readings on the list. I wanted very much to just jump in feet first and "get on with it", so to speak, but I have learned over the years that if I take..."

Sandy, I have similar feelings, in that I don't know what I don't know until I try to read about it, and then it becomes painfully obvious to me that I don't know much of anything at all. The phrase "begin at the beginning" keeps popping up in my head, and until I read this post, I thought I was at the beginning (or could get there by reading about Greek mythology), but now it is clear that I am not. But this is why I am enjoying this group so much - it gives me more resources to discover and opportunities to learn. I don't pretend that I will ever be able to learn everything I would like, but I am determined to keep trying :)

The Luwian Studies website looks fascinating! Thank you so much for sharing it :)

I used a couple of books to give myself an understanding. Dorothy Mills wrote a couple of excellent histories for high school students: The Book of the Ancient Greeks and The Book of the Ancient Romans. I prefer these because some histories have a heavy focus on characters and others events, whereas Mills gives and excellent balance between the two. Other possibilities are The Story Of The Greeks and The Story of the Romans (Christine Miller has also done a re-write of these two books) ---- I still prefer Mills books for the balance, and they are a joy to read!

Sandy wrote: "I have been feeling intimated by the first 35 readings on the list. I wanted very much to just jump in feet first and "get on with it", so to speak, but I have learned over the years that if I take..."

Sharon wrote: "I have similar feelings, in that I don't know what I don't know until I try to read about it, and then it becomes painfully obvious to me that I don't know much of anything at all. The phrase "begin at the beginning" keeps popping up in my head..."

Oh my goodness, I know exactly what you two mean! This is why I wanted to read the TWEM list chronologically across all the genres, and to read the books in parallel with Bauer's "History of the World" series. I also need background context to make sense of what it is I am reading. The ironic thing is that the more you read and learn the more you realize how much you don't know, and that can be so incredibly daunting.

Sharon, you're so right how we're never really at "the" beginning. I think we just have to arbitrarily define that for ourselves and go from there.

Sandy, I'm so glad you identified what your mental block is. Thank you so much for sharing it with us and sharing the Luwian Studies website! Personally, I find this incredibly fascinating. LOVE it. Please don't ever be afraid that your interests are too esoteric. Continue to share any more resources you find with us!

While I did read the Mills books for background, one of the great inspirations to jump in, actually came from Susan Wise Bauer. In her histories, she reveals how history cannot actually be 100% known, that there are differing opinions between certain historical scholars as to what happened or how things developed. There are so many uncertainties. I can't tell you how many times I've read something and then read something different about the same thing in another historical account. Because of this, I've become pickier about what I read from author/historians. I do not like when an author/historian presents something that is very uncertain, as 100% factual. I've read a few authors who have done this, almost as if their main goal is not to share history, but instead promote their conclusions. So I stay away from them and stick with ones who let history speak for itself and are not afraid to note the differing opinions (as Bauer does).

Yet because of all the uncertainties, I really haven't tried to give myself a really broad background, as it can get confusing and there are so many tempting rabbit-trails. Rather, I have a base, then I read and mentally plug in what I read into that base, and from the actual reading expand my knowledge. Actually, it was C.S. Lewis who helped me with this approach when he noted how many books people have read about Plato but he rarely met anyone who'd actually read Plato, when in fact, Plato himself was the easiest to understand.

Sandy, I started with Homer's The Iliad (even before I read Mills' books) and it is really the best introduction. In fact, I think in this case, getting the history first (from someone living 3200 years later) might alter your experience. Who is going to know better how people acted and lived in that time than Homer himself? If you want a guide, one of the best is Elizabether Vandiver's Great Course on The Iliad of Homer (she also has a number of others on Greek literature and life). It will help you to understand the behaviour of the Greek characters in a way that few history books will.

What I do get intimated by are books like The Faerie Queene where they work on multiple levels. There is the historical context, then the biblical context, then the political and social context, and next add in allegory, symbolism and imagery ----- it can get overwhelming very quickly. In fact, I'm reading it at the moment and have hit a brick wall. After thinking it over for awhile, I've decided to mentally treat each book like a separate work. That way, hopefully I'll be able to get through it without my head exploding. Wish me luck!

Sandy wrote: "I have been feeling intimated by the first 35 readings on the list. I wanted very much to just jump in feet first and "get on with it", so to speak, but I have learned over the years that if I take..."


Sandy, I am pretty intimidated myself which is a little bit embarassing for me because I am actually a history major. *blush* I find myself constantly stopping to look things up or to clarify a date or name when I am reading. I am loving the Luwian website by the way. As Cleo did, I also chose to start with the Iliad to have something of a background before continuing with any other works and I'm really enjoying it so far. The Luwian website is very helpful, as is The Encyclopedia of the Ancient Greek World by David Sacks. I am also reading the History of the Ancient World by Susan Wise Bauer (which Cleo also mentioned). All in all, with these resources, I feel like I am having a much more pleasant experience with the Iliad than I did when I read it many years ago. Looking forward to moving on to Agamemnon :)

Sandy wrote: "Maybe I will even try my hand at learning Greek. Who knows?
.."

If you are serious (?????) Elementary Greek Koine for Beginners, Year One Textbook is a great start. There are three levels, each with a textbook, workbook, CD and flash cards. I'm working my way through Level One; it's a very easy introduction and also easy to understand.

I just want to say thanks to everyone posting great resources here. I will almost certainly try to supplement a summer reading of The Iliad with the Great Courses lectures Cleo linked too. Also, I am so tempted to get that Greek book, although to be honest, Latin tempts me even more these days and I really should be brushing up on my French. Anyway, I foresee this thread will be a useful resource.

One great way to pickup The Great Courses audio versions is by getting an Audible membership. The courses are available for one credit and manners them very affordable and they have so many great ones.

A Bookworm Reading (Plethora) wrote: "One great way to pickup The Great Courses audio versions is by getting an Audible membership. The courses are available for one credit and manners them very affordable and they have so many great o..."

Thanks for this suggestion, A Bookworm Reading! I have an Audible subscription and will be getting my monthly installment of credits in the next few days, so I may pick up a couple of these :)

Sandy wrote: "While I was trying to tie up loose ends on GR, I kept opening more cans of worms. But (and this is miles from what I had hoped to do this afternoon) here's an interesting website which I plan to ex..."

Oh!! That IS Heaven! Thank you for sharing!

Sandy wrote: "I've been picking away at a lot of different websites and Wikipedia pages and have begun to fill in some blank sections of my maxi-timeline (i.e. on 24 x 36 inch paper). I found myself back in Meso..."

Wow, I'm very impressed. By the time you get to Greece, I'd wager you'll be more knowledgeable than 99% of people! Perhaps immediately behind the scholars, and even ahead of a few.

Sandy wrote: "I am quite fascinated to discover that scholars believe that both Homer and Herodotus lived in western Anatolia. I had no idea (but I may be the only person alive who didn't know that!)...."

I didn't know that either...but then when I Googled "map of Anatolia" and saw that Anatolia is essentially modern-day Turkey, I suppose it made sense at least for Homer since western Anatolia is where Troy was located. I had always just assumed they were both from Greece.

That's rotten news about your eyes, Sandy. I really hope that the doctors can do something to help you. Do you read mainly on a reader? I think my basic Kindle is a little easier on my eyes than print, but I'm not sure about the fancier ones, and especially computer or IPad screens. We were at a softball championship this past week and the scoreboards were playing havoc with some people who were wearing glasses. Apparently the LED lights can really affect your vision in a very negative way.

Hmmm ..... there is so little known about Homer that I'm surprised that scholars can even place him. Some wonder if he even existed. Herodotus on the other hand, is more easy to place. My historical reading, and in fact any reading at all, has really dropped off. I'm pretty busy until mid-August, but then I have a two week vacation and plan to read through most of it.

Ooo, keep posting, Sandy. It's fascinating to share in what you're learning! :-)

Sandy wrote: "Today I am so excited! A new book arrived in the mail -- The Medusa Reader (edited by Marjorie Garber and Nancy J. Vickers). I rarely buy print books ..."

Wow, how fascinating! I had no idea there were so many Medusa stories!

That is an amazing painting. I had the pleasure of seeing it in person in the Uffizi gallery in Florence last September. I couldn't see everything because the Uffizi gallery is huge, but I made a list of specific works to look at and this was one of them.

I hope you enjoy the book!

Sandy wrote: "As I just mentioned in another thread, I am taking a break from The Oxford Handbook of Ancient Anatolia. Sort of an enforced break, really. We will be moving soon and the library wa..."

15% of a dense, information-packed handbook is impressive! I admire your grit. I look forward to your insights as we begin reading Herodotus in January!

Hi Sandy! Are you reading the Anatolia book to build a framework for early Greek history?

Always! :P

d) All of the above?

I see what you mean with frog leaping between Egypt and Classical (well perhaps Archaic) Greece. It seems as if that time period in that specific region is somewhat murky? Assyrians and Hittites? My weak spot for sure.. Mostly archaeological information? I read parts of Mieroop's A History of the Ancient Near East: ca. 3000-323 BC ten years ago (so my memory is hazy). You are right, that time is definitely a neglected realm. I am more of an Aegean fan so I guess western Anatolia comes into play.

So these threads are for different individual book projects or musings about them?

Haaze wrote: "So these threads are for different individual book projects or musings about them?"

Yep! The "Member TWEM/Classics Book Lists" folder was Cleo's great idea to have a place for our members to discuss their own Classics reading projects, including but not limited to books from The Well-Educated Mind list.

Each member can start their own thread (just "add topic" under the "Member TWEM/Classics Book Lists" folder) to discuss your past, present, and future reads. Essentially, use this space to keep track of your own reading projects as well as engage with other members! :-)

Spending time in Ancient Greece is always a good idea! :)

Fascinating material. I presume you are way into archaeology considering your interest in this period? The time before archaic Greece!!! It is such a challenge to interpret the culture from that time. Besides, it wall take you a decade before you get to Classical Greece! ; -) Are you studying the cultural realm of all the Mediterranean and Middle East during this age? Sea people, Egypt etc?

I have also heard that Evans shaped a fair amount of his findings based on his own concepts of the culture of Knossos. This seems to be dogma at this point in time. Do you think that is a misunderstanding?

I listened to a fascinating lecture from the Teaching Company a couple of years ago that focused on the American archaeologist Harriet Boyd. She seems like a fascinating character. She also excavated on Crete and seems to have brought wonderful sites to the world's attention.

This seems like a cool book about her life. I sometimes think about the wonders she must have seen.
Born to Rebel: The Life of Harriet Boyd Hawes
https://smile.amazon.com/Born-Rebel-H...

Haha Thanks Sandy! I'll take a look!

Sandy wrote: "Today I am so excited! A new book arrived in the mail -- The Medusa Reader ..."
Hi, Sandy-
I looked at The Medusa Reader table of contents through the Look Inside feature on Amazon that you so kindly provided the link to. Wow. I am amazed at all the literature that refers to Medusa. And yes, you could do a reading Medusa through history project, for sure.
-Julie (Sorento62)

It must be a relief to be getting settled down again. I hope you're better soon and back on track. I've been very distracted this fall but I hope things are settling down here as well. We'll see .....

Hmm, there was an article about the Indian epics and how they inspire modern Indian authors in this week's Economist:
http://www.economist.com/news/books-a...

I am worried about the latter as well. I think I will check out the very first in the series focused on Ramayana:
Prince of Ayodhya

Will do! :)

Sandy, I think you may be interested in A Sourcebook in Indian Philosophy. I've recently ordered it and it contains many of India's classic epics, including the Vedas, the Bhagavad-Gita, and other works.

I don't intend to read it cover-to-cover. It's a collection, for one to pick and choose out of, so I added it to my "Reference Books" shelf.

Here's the Table of Contents from Google Books: https://books.google.com/books?id=M5H...

Sandy wrote: "Thanks, Kenia. This would be a valuable resource -- when the time comes. It is a door-stopper, though, isn't it?"

haha yes, it is a door-stopper. But I'm glad they at least made that clear by titling it with the word "...Sourcebook...."

Hi, Sandy!
Glad to know you are actively pursuing your history/prehistory studies once again. We'll be interested to hear your insights as you continue to learn about human origins and early civilizations. The MOOCs sound great.
- Julie

Sandy wrote: "Some of you may have noticed my long absence. I am surprised myself to see from the previous post that it has been so long. Some health issues knocked me off my feet for much longer than I had expe..."

Sandy, Glad to see you back & actively reading again! I hope this means your health has taken a turn for the better.

I love the history projects you are undertaking--you're rapidly becoming our local ancient history expert! ;-)

I can't wait to hear more about what you learn.

Cheers & Welcome Back!
Kenia

Thanks for the link, Sandy! It looks great. I've bookmarked it. :-)