The Reader's Bar discussion

Please post your comments about this book below.

Has anyone started this one? If so, what are your thoughts?

I finished this one a few months ago, so i'll chime in as others start reading

Lindor wrote: "I finished this one a few months ago, so i'll chime in as others start reading"

Ok, great! What was your overall take on the book?

My overall take might give away some parts of the story, so I'll hold off until everyone has caught up. I did rate it as a 3 though.

Have you started it yet? What are you first thoughts?

I have also read The Fishermen. I rated it a 3.5 and rounded up to 4 stars mainly for the lyrical (and sometimes over-descriptive) language which I happen to like.

I thought the book did a good job with having the historical events of the time be in the background in the storyline though knowing a little of Nigerian's history helps to follow along.

Folklore, myths, and superstition play a role in the storyline as the modern and traditions clash in story about family dynamics.

Lindor wrote: "My overall take might give away some parts of the story, so I'll hold off until everyone has caught up. I did rate it as a 3 though.

Have you started it yet? What are you first thoughts?"

Yes, I started it. I am a bit unsure about the story right now but I do like the author's writing style and learning more about the Nigerian culture.

I finished this book last night. I was not expecting all of the many twist and turns that occurred in the story. I cannot wait to hear what everyone thinks of this one.

what surprised you? Was there anything that you were expecting that didn't happen? At one point I thought that there was something else going on w/the dad other than just his job commitments.

I was surprised by how the boys behaved. I kept expecting them to talk to their parents about the situation, especially Ben. I was also wondering why the dad never came back to see about the boys. There had to be more to it then his job.

I was surprised at how much Ikenna believed the madman's prophecy. I think that brings me back to the point of how many current novels paint a "primitive" picture of African people. The words of an insane man completely destroyed this family.

Lindor wrote: "I was surprised at how much Ikenna believed the madman's prophecy. I think that brings me back to the point of how many current novels paint a "primitive" picture of African people. The words of an..."

I have not read many novels based in Africa but to me it seemed that the author was trying to describe a constant battle between the traditional and nontraditional views in this story. I remember him giving examples about this happening with religion.

Denise wrote: "I was surprised by how the boys behaved. I kept expecting them to talk to their parents about the situation, especially Ben. I was also wondering why the dad never came back to see about the boys. ..."

I too was surprised that the father did not return home to see to the boys. But then I thought a little about the turmoil that often happened in politics and how the father was anxious to make sure that he and his sons were going to be part of the future - so he probably thought that he needed to where he was to secure that future. Besides child rearing was a woman's domain. The father is some ways was pompous and while he might have considered himself "modern" - he was still a "traditionalist" in many ways and once he gave an "order" he expected it to be obeyed. There was not much open communication in this family.

Beverly wrote: "Denise wrote: "I was surprised by how the boys behaved. I kept expecting them to talk to their parents about the situation, especially Ben. I was also wondering why the dad never came back to see a..."

Yes, I agree. I think that their lack of communication was their downfall.

what was it that made you rate it a 2, Denise? I struggled with my rating (between a 2 and a 3). I kept asking myself if I just didn't like the events of the story (which I definitely didn't. I kept wondering if a bit of the violence was overkill or if I was just lucky to believe that) or if I just disliked the way that the story was told (I had a few moments, but I think I'd consider another story by this author).

Lindor wrote: "what was it that made you rate it a 2, Denise? I struggled with my rating (between a 2 and a 3). I kept asking myself if I just didn't like the events of the story (which I definitely didn't. I kep..."

I had a lot of the same discussions with myself. I felt like the story was a bit much and it was a little hard for me to get through.

What did you think of their Mother and Father's parenting style?

Have any of you read Things Fall Apart? This book was mentioned several times throughout this book.

What do you think of Abulu? What do you think of the brothers?

I saw this question in an article written about this book. Does fate have its own gravitational pull, or is it just the power of conviction? What are your thoughts?

Who do you feel is responsible for what happened in this book? Ikenna, Obembe, Abulu, their mother, their father...?

Here is an interview with Chigozie Obioma in which he discusses the story behind this book.

http://www.michiganquarterlyreview.co...

I read Things Fall Apart in high school. I remember really enjoying it and I'll probably try to re-read it one of these days.

In terms of fate, I'm not sure if I believe in a pre-determined fate or not (I'm more of a "whatever's going to happen will happen then you deal with it" kind of person..lol) but I think that belief systems (religious, social, political, cultural) such as the ones in this story play a big hand in determining fate (indirectly or directly). Beliefs alter behavior.

Lindor wrote: "I was surprised at how much Ikenna believed the madman's prophecy. I think that brings me back to the point of how many current novels paint a "primitive" picture of African people. The words of an..."
I did not think that this book showed a "primitive" picture of African people. Each society and culture have their own mores/beliefs/superstitions. Sometimes seeds planted into the minds of those that are skeptical or open to accepting what is being told and inspires thoughts/actions in an unexpected way.

While there are books that do not show African society/culture in a favorable light I did not think this was the purpose of this book.
I thought the author did a good job of showing how too often at a particular time/place a person can have one foot in the traditional society and the other in the "modern" society. And to complicate the case - in this case - the modern often meant that adopting the culture of those who colonized them.

What were the aspects of this society that you ladies viewed as modern vs. traditional? Overall (with the exception of believing that a madman can predict the future), their family didn't seem to be much different than any other family in/out of Africa.

To clarify my use of the word, I categorize nearly all belief in superstition as primitive (primitive being used synonymously with archaic/old-fashioned many times to a fault).

Beverly wrote: "Lindor wrote: "I was surprised at how much Ikenna believed the madman's prophecy. I think that brings me back to the point of how many current novels paint a "primitive" picture of African people. ..."

I agree with Beverly's assessment, I think the premise of the book is how we as human beings sometimes let our own "hang ups" and beliefs lead us down a path of self-destruction. How does the saying go, I believe therefore I am, or something like that. If you noticed at the end of the book the main character spoke that Ikenna was always kind of brooding and contemplative, it seemed like he was never an overly happy person so it was easy for him to allow gloom and doom to take over his life.

Denise wrote: "I saw this question in an article written about this book. Does fate have its own gravitational pull, or is it just the power of conviction? What are your thoughts?"

It is the power of conviction. As human beings, I don't think it's that hard to convince people of anything. Look at the current election. That's a perfect example. There's all sorts of nonsense being thrown about and people are still following the candidates in question. You would think at some point, common sense would take over and you would say wait, that's not right but clearly that isn't happening as much as you would think it should.

Denise wrote: "Who do you feel is responsible for what happened in this book? Ikenna, Obembe, Abulu, their mother, their father...?"

This is a tough one...Do I blame the father for abandoning his children and being the stubborn patriarch and not recognizing his family needed him? Do I blame the mother for just not being able to keep enough of a handle on her children? Do I blame the boys for being gullible? I'm not sure I have an answer to this...Maybe I do place more blame on the father because as a parent, you have to be there for your child!

Denise wrote: "What do you think of Abulu? What do you think of the brothers?"

I loved the relationship that the boys had with each other until the father whipped them. To me, that seemed like another turning point in Ikenna's life. Abulu was just disturbed, but as I kept reading about Ikenna's behavior I couldn't help thinking that he would also have been diagnosed with a mental disorder had he been in this country.

I don't blame anyone in the fam for the events that happened. At first I blamed the father, but after it was clear that he really couldn't leave his job, I realized I was reading it with a bit of "privilege" (ie. the ability of many in this country to have sick days and parental leave, FMLA, etc.) where that probably didn't exist in this place at that time.

Lindor wrote: "What were the aspects of this society that you ladies viewed as modern vs. traditional? Overall (with the exception of believing that a madman can predict the future), their family didn't seem to b..."

One area where I saw this come up was in the author's description of their religious practices. He mentioned that many people followed Christianity (non-traditional) but still believed and participated in aspects of their traditional religion. They seemed to have combined the two.

Carolyn wrote: "Beverly wrote: "Lindor wrote: "I was surprised at how much Ikenna believed the madman's prophecy. I think that brings me back to the point of how many current novels paint a "primitive" picture of ..."

Yes, there seemed to have been a lot of bad things that had happened to Ikenna in the past. Maybe he just thought that this was just another mishap. Was there something that anyone could have done to help him see otherwise?

Lindor wrote: "Denise wrote: "What do you think of Abulu? What do you think of the brothers?"

I loved the relationship that the boys had with each other until the father whipped them. To me, that seemed like ano..."

I do agree that when the father whipped the boys that was a turning point for Ikenna. That seemed to be when everything started to go downhill.

Carolyn wrote: "Denise wrote: "Who do you feel is responsible for what happened in this book? Ikenna, Obembe, Abulu, their mother, their father...?"

This is a tough one...Do I blame the father for abandoning his ..."

I don't know if he is entirely to blame either but I also place more blame on the father. I think that he needed to be there to supervise his kids. He seemed to be the one that kept them in line.

Denise wrote: "Carolyn wrote: "Beverly wrote: "Lindor wrote: "I was surprised at how much Ikenna believed the madman's prophecy. I think that brings me back to the point of how many current novels paint a "primit..."

no, it was like once he had made up his mind to believe the madman, nothing could deter him from his negative thoughts.

Denise wrote: "Have any of you read Things Fall Apart? This book was mentioned several times throughout this book."

I have read Things Fall Apart many years ago.
It is a classic - for several reasons so can understand why it was referred to several times in the book especially since it is considered one of the first modern African novel written in English and it is studies in schools in Nigeria like we read Tom Sawyer in the US and modern education was important to this family.

I thought that the father was a "tyrant" especially at the beginning - he expected his family to do what he said and had already laid out what each of the sons.
But I guess in some ways - he thought he knew best what was needed for his sons to succeed.

I agree with what others have said about the possibility of mental illness/instability in the son and I also thought in the mother.

I though the mother was overwhelmed.

But in both instances I do not if the "mental breakdowns" were caused by the situations/unhappiness and/or if was because of some mental instability.