Guardian Newspaper 1000 Novels discussion

From War and Travel

Any recommendations about which translation to read - Ralph Manheim or Breon Mitchell?

took delivery of my copy of this today, so will be joining in this month, but I have 3 other group reads to get through first(!) so will probably be towards the end of the month before I get to this one...

I checked the Breon Mitchell translation out of the library but this is a much larger book than I had anticipated. I don't know if I will be able to finish it this month -- or even get time to start!

Agreed, Leslie! I havent had much time for reading lately, but wanted to read both of this month's books. I plan on starting Cry today or tomorrow and this after. I'll get as far as i can and finish next month

I am going to start this soon, but given the length it will carry over into July...!

Darren wrote: "I am going to start this soon, but given the length it will carry over into July...!"

Yeah, same here...

finally started this yesterday
only a few pages in, but early impressions are good/encouraging, and the style seems remarkably "modern" (for 1959!)

How are people doing with this one? I finished last week and wanted to think on it a bit, but it hasn't stayed with me at all.

I enjoyed the opening of the novel and thought I would enjoy the rest, but I found myself just hoping to finish. I feel like there was something in this one that I was just "missing" the entire time that would make it make more sense, but I never found it.

What were other impressions?

I still haven't started!

Oh no! I hope i didn't discourage you!

I'm still only about 50 pages in, but intend a "big push" over the next few days!

I am finally getting to this! I was surprised by the opening - I have seen the movie and in that, I don't remember Oskar being in a mental institution.

I find the shifting between saying "I" and saying "Oskar" a bit confusing -- is the narrator not Oskar? Is it that he has dual personality?

I am still fairly early in it (~15% done) and am finding Oskar's stated memories of himself hard to believe so I am assuming this is a novel with an unreliable narrator...

Hmmm...Other than one part where the narrator is clearly not Oskar, it is him the entire time. I listened to this on audiobook and didn't pick up on the switching between "I" and "Oskar". Interesting!

For me this was less unreliable narrator (though he obviously is) and more magical realism... so I assume you are referring to things like the grandmother's 4 skirts, etc., and I just assumed it was a plot device and less of Oskar's unreliability. Though both definitely work together to make this one.

What I had in mind with the 'unreliable narrator' was his "remembering" the exact conversation between his mother & father just after he was born...

It hasn't been clear to me that the narrator in Book One isn't Oskar so I assume that is to come. Here is an example of what I mean about the switching:

"They turned around, rowed their way across the street with their canes, and hurried past me and my doorway without spotting me, while their disturbed old faces, which looked as if the devil had given them a good shaking, brought a smile to Oskar's lips - a smile that bore a trace of concern, for the gentlemen, mostly cigar smokers advanced in years, had broken out in a cold sweat, and thus ran the risk, particularly with a change in the weather, of catching cold."

Why "Oskar's lips" and not "my lips"?

Or here: "No, I wasn't in the least ambitious, Oskar had no desire to be canonized."

I love this sentence:

"How often I was overcome by sleep as she auscultated my small and supposedly ailing body: a shallow sleep, born from the folds of white fabric, a carbolic-cloaked sleep, a dreamless sleep; unless in the distance her pin expanded into who knew what: a sea of banners, an alpine glow, a splash of poppy field, ready to revolt, who knew against whom: against red Indians, cherries, nosebleeds, against cockscombs, red blood cells, coalescing to a red that filled my vision and gave background to a passion that I found, both then and now, quite understandable, but could not name, because the small word red says nothing, and nosebleeds do nothing, and banners fade, and if in spite of all I still say red, red won't have me, turns its coat: back to black, the Cook is coming, scares me yellow, makes me blue, blue won't do, blue's untrue, turns me green, green grows the grass above my grave, green turns me white: calls me black, black scares me yellow, yellow makes me blue, blue won't turn green, green blooms me red, red was Sister Inge's pin, the red cross she wore, to be precise, upon the washable collar of her nurse's uniform; but things seldom stopped with this most monochromatic of all images, nor did they in the wardrobe."

I just read that passage ^ !

I'm really enjoying the writing, and the swapping to referring to Oskar in the third person isn't really bothering me that much

it's taking me a while to get through though cos the writing is so "dense" that I'm finding it hard to pick up but also hard to put down (if that makes sense!?)

I just read what must be the best funeral chapter I've yet come across in any book - so evocative and moving...

I am now a few chapters into Book 2 and am becoming more and more impressed with this book. I am just going to jot down a few thoughts -- hope that is okay.

At first Oskar's deciding to not age and 'become grownup' bothered me as it is so unrealistic but now that I have been thinking about the theme of identity in the book, it makes more sense to me. I started thinking about this theme due to Oskar's interchangeable use of first and third person (which I mentioned in an earlier post).

Agnes's family is Kashubian (which, I discovered today after reading Gunter Grass's New York Times obituary, mirrors Grass's own mother) -- she is not really Polish or German but as WW2 approaches, it feels like the family is forced to choose sides. Agnes marries a German (just as Grass's mother did) but maintains close relations with her cousin, who chooses the Polish Post Office; this triangle could be viewed as a metaphor for the Kashubian people - allying themselves with the Germans for safety (perhaps infatuated by them?) but secretly loving Poland more in their hearts.

In this light, Oskar's refusal to grow up could be seen as a refusal to take sides. Given what has just happened in the book (view spoiler)[Oskar's betrayal of Jan leading to Jan's execution (hide spoiler)], I sense this refusal will have tragic repercussions...

I still don't know what to think about the drum though! Anyone have thoughts about this they would like to share?

I am still working my way through this - up to the chapter "The Ant Trail" (~60%). I am puzzled about Oskar calling himself (view spoiler)[Jesus and having himself put in the church frieze (hide spoiler)] when he is with the Dusters.

I'm up to about the same place (read the Ant Trail chapter last night) - I'm not sure how much we can take Oskar's narration at face value, I think a lot of it is just going on in his head
I'm going to make a determined effort to concentrate/finish this one now - I am still enjoying it, but can't believe how long it's taking me to get through :oO

finished this about a week ago
thought it was absolutely excellent, the way in which having Oskar effectively just as an observer enabled a good feel for the unfolding of history on the "home front" in Germany before/during/after WW2
I felt the final part let the book down a bit though, as the historical side all but disappeared and it was just a few wacky characters/episodes tacked on - would've been a 5-Star apart from that
still a good solid 4-Star overall for me though

Darren I finished about a week ago too -- we must have been reading it with about the same speed! Which translation did you read? I had the newer one by Breon Mitchell but the older one by Ralph Manheim is the one that won awards...

Here is my review -- http://www.goodreads.com/review/show/...

Leslie - mine was the Manheim translation which I thought was excellent - it seemed to have a style of its own, and felt neither simplified nor contrived which can sometimes happen

re Oskar's not growing up - I just took this as a plot device to allow him to be an observer - if he'd grown up we'd've had to follow his development too which would've changed the whole tenor
the thing I found a bit jarring was his ability to shatter glass - what was that all about!?

I kind of wish that I had read that translation. About the 'singshattering' as Mitchell called it -- it was weird, wasn't it?