Fantasy Buddy Reads discussion

Discussion for House of Chains.

So I'm hoping this is a convergence of both sets of characters especially since Midnight Tides is going to be a completely new set of characters with the story around the Tiste Edur.

Without spoiling too much about the intro:
(view spoiler)[I'm told that the Karsa intro is a homage to Conan and Howard (hide spoiler)]

Lundos wrote: "Without spoiling too much about the intro:
[spoilers removed]"
That's so cool! Conan is awesome.

Out of the almost 6 books I've read in this series, HoC is probably my least favourite, but it contains some of the most memorable characters!

Tracey the Lizard Queen wrote: "Out of the almost 6 books I've read in this series, HoC is probably my least favourite, but it contains some of the most memorable characters!"

Well I suppose having the memorable characters balanaces it out a bit - at some point there needs to be a "least favourite" one. Out of the first three, I don't think I could choose which one I liked the least; they were all fantastic!

Kallor is the one I hate the most and it's not even close including the Crippled God.

Scott wrote: "Kallor is the one I hate the most and it's not even close including the Crippled God."

Kallor is awful.

You'll have enough to choose from in books 5 and 6!

Oh man, can't wait till you guys meet Karsa Orlong! Witness...

I am going to start House of Chains tomorrow because I don't really want to start a new book before Wednesday and Scott finished way before me with MOI.

Jenna wrote: "I am going to start House of Chains tomorrow because I don't really want to start a new book before Wednesday and Scott finished way before me with MOI."

Cheater! :)

I started Beyond Redemption yesterday so I'll wait until the 6th. Anybody who is a fan of GrimDark has to read this. Very different and so not what I was expecting in a good way.

Scott wrote: "Jenna wrote: "I am going to start House of Chains tomorrow because I don't really want to start a new book before Wednesday and Scott finished way before me with MOI."

Cheater! :)

I started [book..."

I love Beyond Redemption! Its gross and funny and dark. Perfect grimdark!

Tracey the Lizard Queen wrote: "I love Beyond Redemption! Its gross and funny and dark. Perfect grimdark!"

All of that plus I wasn't expecting the psychology, philosophy, sociology and theology points most of which are completely irreverent to most current theories and bare minimum poke fun at them.

Scott wrote: "Cheater! :)"

Haha, sorry!

I put Beyond Redemption on my to-read list.

Hey sorry I've been going between Austin and Dallas to move stuff so I haven't been able to read much the last week. I'm still on Memories of Ice but I'll try to catch up to you guys. I'm also going on a cruise next week so I'll probably get more behind. :(

Eric wrote: "Hey sorry I've been going between Austin and Dallas to move stuff so I haven't been able to read much the last week. I'm still on Memories of Ice but I'll try to catch up to you guys. I'm also goin..."

It's alright. Have fun on your cruise!

So the listing on this book was coming up as 676 pages. I downloaded the Kindle version this morning and it was to my surprise 1022 pages which is a hundred pages longer than MOI!!!!!

So I did a quick lookup and it's in fact only 85% of the work count of MOI but 12% longer than DHG. So in other words another epic monster.

Obviously it's just that much more awesomeness but I'll be hard pressed with some of the other reading to maintain my MOI pace (Jenna applauds).

Kind of a cool thing about HoC is that it follows only one POV for the first quarter or so of the book. Kind of threw me off at first, but it was, in typical Erikson fashion, bad ass. I wonder if he did it just to prove he could write a single POV

Scott wrote: "So the listing on this book was coming up as 676 pages. I downloaded the Kindle version this morning and it was to my surprise 1022 pages which is a hundred pages longer than MOI!!!!!

So I did a q..."

Jenna does applaud! :)

Scott wrote: "Kind of a cool thing about HoC is that it follows only one POV for the first quarter or so of the book. Kind of threw me off at first, but it was, in typical Erikson fashion, bad ass. I wonder if h..."

I would honestly be totally fine with Karsa Orlong as the POV for the whole book. He is great so far. I'm on chapter 2.

At first, when someone said the name "Karsa," I thought he was a she. I'm sure Karsa Orlong would be utterly horrified by my assumption.

Jenna wrote: "Scott wrote: "Kind of a cool thing about HoC is that it follows only one POV for the first quarter or so of the book. Kind of threw me off at first, but it was, in typical Erikson fashion, bad ass...."

I'm glad I'm not the only one who thought "he" was a "she"!

Karsa is amazing. Easily one of my top 5 characters

I'm done "Book 1." I really like the different style of this book (view spoiler)[ with "book 1" only following Karsa Orlong. I still like the vastness and diversity of Erikson's normal style, but it was nice for a change and I could follow Karsa Orlong for a whole series. Karsa Orlong is awesome. Another character on my favourites list, though it feels like he is unconscious every other page. One of the hazards of being a fearless warleader, I suppose. (hide spoiler)]

What!!! That's fast. Is it better than MOI? I'm on 18 but it's a big step down from Deadhouse gates in my opinion. I liked the more personal feelings of the perspectives in deadhouse gates. I wish there were more "quiet" scenes overall to develop the world, rather than constant action or movement such as scenes of normal life or politics to get a feel for the different cultures. You guys mentioned only being one viewpoint for a large part of the book so that sounds great.

Eric wrote: "What!!! That's fast. Is it better than MOI? I'm on 18 but it's a big step down from Deadhouse gates in my opinion. I liked the more personal feelings of the perspectives in deadhouse gates. I wish ..."

It's just really different from MOI so far and I think that when you are doing a series read with a book a month, there does need to be a change up and in HOC, it works really well in my opinion. You definitely get a feel for a different culture as far as I am in the book.

I found that in HoC the perspective begins to change a lot more, you realize the Malazan's are just a tiny piece in an huge puzzle. A puzzle with some amazing characters at the middle of it!

I have to be careful, after a while all the books kinda blur into one long book, so I'll try to be mindful of spoilers.

Prologue

(view spoiler)[
I had to look up that Trull Sengar was Tiste Edur which was different than I thought. I was leaning towards this somehow involving Icarium. The usual very dark and portentous start that won't come clear for a long time
(hide spoiler)]

Chapter one

(view spoiler)[
This reminded me of reading Clan of the Cave Bear and things of that nature with Erikson's education flowing through. Karsa is definitely pretty ruthless but also cunning. His grandfather's lies coming out are an interesting twist.

I think the Teblor are going to be an off shoot of one of the other tribes we've already seen much like the Tiste Edur and Tiste are and also the Barghast and Moranth. Given the start with the Tiste Edur and the Jags I'm leaning towards one of those.

Given the title I really expected this to pickup as a blend of DHG and MOI but Erikson consistently goes where you think he won't.
(hide spoiler)]

I've started chapter two but according to Kindle the estimated read time is 2.5 hours so I'm not getting through that today.

Chapter two

(view spoiler)[I think we can say Karsa is myopic, pedantic, unyielding, obdurate............but a bad-ass. He doesn't want to hear anything to take him off his path from anybody.

I have to be honest I was soooooo happy to see Calm and so sad to see her leave so quickly. Then I was psyched to see Tarvald Nom a relative of Rallick and mention of Daru and tie- ins to the other books. And then sadness as he's gone. Then we have the Malazan's entering and there were many cheers and they're still here as the chapter ends. PLEASE, please, please let them stay!

I think these were the two longest chapters of all the books to date for me. Not without a lot of foreshadowing both back in time and to the future story but my god these chapters could have been shortened.

(hide spoiler)]

Scott wrote: "Chapter two"

They are very long chapters, but for me, I was able to read them quicker than some of the other books because I didn't constantly have to keep track of characters and remind myself what was going on.

Chapter 5: (view spoiler)[ It's interesting to finally get a perspective featuring Adjunct Tavore. I don't like her so far, but I don't think I'm meant to like her.
Fiddler is back! And Erikson decides that since there's not enough characters in Malazan already, we'll start re-naming characters to make them seem like they are new! AAAAAH. But yay Fiddler who is not yet a "Strings" in my mind. (hide spoiler)]
Chapter 6: (view spoiler)[ ERIKSON, WHY?! You had a well-named character, and then you changed his name! Crokus was WAY better than Cutter and the justification for changing it was not good enough. Liked to see Cotillion though with both Crokus and Kalam and very happy Kalam is in this book. (hide spoiler)]
very beginning of chapter 7: (view spoiler)[ It's so cool to see "Toblakai" now that I know he is Karsa Orlong. I already want to go back and read DHG to re-read all the Toblakai parts. (hide spoiler)]

Damn you're paying me back for MOI.

Chapter 3

(view spoiler)[
So chapter 3 made 1 and 2 all worth it. The transformation of Karsa as he learned compassion and became a true Malazan character was great to behold.

So these chains binding Karsa......House of Chains? He obviously is going to play a part in regards to the Crippled God at some point.

Torvald screwing with everybody saying maybe I'm a claw was classic.

The wounded warren, Tiste Edur all coming back into play give us a timeline. The 7 bodies coming up out of the muck as the 7 gods leads us to the Trebor being descended from the T'Lan Imass not the Jhag's or Tiste Edur. Which would be ironic since Karsa has sworn against them with Calm. With the trail of bones I had almost thought that for a moment in chapter two.

A lot of great series tie-ins. Classic chapter.
(hide spoiler)]

Scott wrote: "Damn you're paying me back for MOI."

Haha, at least I'm trying! I had a 2 hour bus ride today so I thought I'd put a dent in HOC.

Scott wrote: "Chapter 3"

(view spoiler)[ All the time Karsa was in chains, I had an imaginary flag in my head going "ding, ding, ding foreshadowing." Either that or it was just convenient to put Karsa's story in HOC because it so fits well with the theme. However, Erikson usually always does everything for a million reasons that always show later so I'm assuming it's my first guess.
Torvald was hilarious when he pretended to (possibly) be a claw. (hide spoiler)]

Chapter 8: (view spoiler)[ Fiddler and Cuttle are so great. I wonder what is going to happen when they encounter Sha'ik's army because I'm pretty sure they wouldn't recognize her (if they even see her). The comment about not wanting to be led by a sapper gave me a chuckle.
The omen was done very well - Tavore is a child leading them all to their deaths. Great imagery.
Lostara is becoming quite interesting. I would what crazy mission Cotillion has her on - he seems to be giving everyone missions. Shadowthrone trying to shift the power in the Deck of Dragons? (hide spoiler)]
Chapter 9: (view spoiler)[ Kalam now has a badass weapon and I can't wait to see him use it, but this wasn't my favourite chapter with him. I didn't really like any of the other characters he encountered. (hide spoiler)]
Chapter 10: (view spoiler)[ Heboric knows the Master of the Deck is Paran! Why he would not tell Sha'ik/Felisin seems a bit odd because he complains that she doesn't talk to him much anymore. That would be a great way to start talking again.
Karsa is off on his own again so I'm excited to see him and all his warleader adventures again.
Reloe and Dom's plan to take the desert throne has way too many "if"s about it. They are counting on Febyrl killing Sha'ik and then Tavore killing Febryl and then destroying the Malazans AND the Seven Cities rebellion. Because of everything they've done, they'll be welcomed by Laseen where they will kill her somehow and then have the Talons get rid of the Claws. No, I can't see a single thing going wrong with that plan... (hide spoiler)]
Chapter 11: (view spoiler)[ The Malazans finally find out what happened to Dujek's Host and WJ. Tavore thinks all the Bridgeburners are dead, and Fiddler finds out that WJ is dead. Sadness all over again. (hide spoiler)]

I'm through chapter 4 and part one. I'll do a fuller write up but....

(view spoiler)[
“Your kind walked this earth when the T’lan Imass were still flesh. From your blood came the Barghast and the Trell. You are Thelomen Toblakai.”

So I was on the right track but dammit, in a good way, Erikson got me again. I kept looking backwards trying to figure out Karsa when I should have been looking forward to the destination. That was one of those awesome revelations when it was Leoman. So the back story of of the Toblakai has been told from DHG. Great, great tie-in.

(hide spoiler)]

The rest of chapter 4

(view spoiler)[
I saw the name Mebra and it didn't register at first and then I thought wait that's the guy who setup Kalam in DHG and knew nothing good would come of that.

So the chapter begins with Laseen's journal and a line about a Napan's body ever being found which is a reference to keeper and perhaps a portent to something down the line. I love the Erikson's little chapter starters always give a gleam to something.

I was psyched Torvald lived. For Erikson to keep him around he has something yet to accomplish.

Karsa cutting off all of Silgar's limbs as he would have gone through the deadened limbs of the manacles to him was awesome. I wonder at Silgar meeting Heboric and finding redemption and compassion. Perhaps I'm reaching on this one simply because we have some forward history in DHG.

(hide spoiler)]


Start of chapter 5

(view spoiler)[
Fidler!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
(hide spoiler)]

Jenna wrote: "I'm done "Book 1." I really like the different style of this book [spoilers removed]"

It grew on me. The second half of book 1 was Malazan at it's best and at the conclusion I see why the first half was the way it was so that you could appreciate the transformation.

Chapter 5

(view spoiler)[
A lot of the DHG's characters and sadness coming back. I had to think about certain names at first such as Baudin to remember their context. He was such a hard character for so long that I really didn't like but he in the end sacrificed himself.

The chain of dogs references with the broken solders was really sad.

Lostara and Pearl are odd because they were both villains, as much as Erikson characters generally can be, in DHG and now they're going on a quest that is in itself heroic.

The back story of Kellivand and Dancer and how they took over Malaz city was interesting. There's no way that doesn't come into play later I just don't know how.

None of them know about Whiskeyjack yet. :( Especially Fiddler. :(

He spent a long time going over the ships sinking in Malaz harbor. I'm not sure if they were hinting at more of the DHG's events with Kalam and the claw or something forthcoming.

Strings and Gesler scene was pure Bridgeburner awesome.
(hide spoiler)]

Jenna wrote: "Chapter 5

(view spoiler)[
Tavore still remains a mystery. We see she's not heartless given the events with Felisin but we still aren't completely sure of her long term intentions and certainly her personality is still pretty vanilla. We do see she has a sharp intellect.
(hide spoiler)]

Scott wrote: "Jenna wrote: "Chapter 5"

Yeah, we don't know too much about her yet apart from her intellect. (view spoiler)[ I think she does care about Felisin (at least a little bit), but Felisin, now Sha'ik, will never be able to forgive her. (hide spoiler)]

Jenna wrote: "Scott wrote: "Jenna wrote: "Chapter 5"

Yeah, we don't know too much about her yet apart from her intellect. [spoilers removed]"

(view spoiler)[
That looks to be an epic battle which makes me think Erikson will do the opposite and have them unite against the HOC.
(hide spoiler)]

Scott wrote: "Jenna wrote: "Scott wrote: "Jenna wrote: "Chapter 5"

Yeah, we don't know too much about her yet apart from her intellect. [spoilers removed]"

Seems possible, and I don't want (view spoiler)[ Fiddler and the former Bridgeburners attacking their captain's sister (not that they know that). It would just end tragically for me no matter what side loses because I love characters on both sides. I do like battle chapters though so we would miss out on an epic sibling fight if they did unite. (hide spoiler)]

Jenna wrote: "
Seems possible, and I don't want"

(view spoiler)[
I'm not sure how Erikson will set it up but I was thinking something more personal and one on one. Perhaps Felisin going to the fort's walls and calling her out in challenge. I'm still hoping Coltaine ends up back in the game sooner than later.

(hide spoiler)]

Chapter 6

(view spoiler)[
Crokus not cutter has changed a lot. His scene with Cotillion was awesome. Interesting if he and Apsalar ascend. Equally interesting was Cotillion's scene with Kallam and the potential army of shadow. A house war between Shadow and Chain? That could be awesome.

Hood taking Apsalar's father is also interesting. I half wonder if Hood sees house Shadow's power waxing and wants a player in the game. I could be reading into this too much and it's just setting the mood for Apsalar to be more resolute and hardened to the tasks ahead.

Onrack and Trull bring us back to the prologue, the warren issues and more of the catfish. I'm trying to figure out if the catfish is some hidden message or portent or is it just a marker saying yes Karsa was here as well. I also wonder if this will play into the next book Midnight Tides.
(hide spoiler)]

Jenna wrote: "Chapter 6."

LOLOLOLOLOL!!!!!!!!!!!!!

(view spoiler)[
I KNEW changing his name to Cutter was going to drive you crazy!!!!!!!!! I literally thought reading it Oh Lucy Ricky isn't going to like this.

I think Erikson does it on purpose so the reader gets knocked over the head with the fact that the character has undergone a metamorphosis. Much like the gods ascending and taking a new name each of Sorry and Apsalar, Surry and Laseen, TatterSail and Silverfox........
(hide spoiler)]

Scott wrote: "Chapter 6"
(view spoiler)[ It would be awesome if they ascend, but I feel like that would destroy whatever relationship they had and they would only stay together because they were together before. I already feel they have gotten to this point, especially after Crokus became Cutter. (hide spoiler)]

Scott wrote: "Jenna wrote: "Chapter 6."

LOLOLOLOLOL!!!!!!!!!!!!!"

(view spoiler)[ And it is a very strong way to make a statement about a character's transformation. They changed so much that their entire identity needs to be altered. But CUTTER? Crokus was such a great name! And Erikson doesn't have so many of those in my opinion.

So in this book alone we have:
Crokus > Cutter
Fiddler > Strings
Karsa Orlong > Toblakai (or is it technically the other way because we first met him as Toblakai?)
Am I missing any from this book so far? Because this is getting ridiculous. (hide spoiler)]

Jenna wrote: "Because this is getting ridiculous."

(view spoiler)[
Well technically we knew him as Toblakai before we knew him as Karsa......we just didn't know we knew. :)

I have to agree I like most of the original names better as well. Sha'ik I do like better than Felisin but that's about it. Tattersail I even like more than SilverFox
(hide spoiler)]