Catching up on Classics (and lots more!) discussion

This is the Spoiler thread for the 3rd Quarter Long Read of 2016

Bleak House by Charles Dickens

I have finished the first two installments. I knew zero about this book before starting, but I am gathering that there are two narrators: the kind and eternally grateful for everything Esther, and someone else who is very snarky and full of sarcasm. Is this right?

Yes Esther & an omniscient narrator are your narrators of the story.

Kathy wrote: "Yes Esther & an omniscient narrator are your narrators of the story."

Great, thanks!

So what purpose do you think the two different narrators serve for the story?

Kathy wrote: "So what purpose do you think the two different narrators serve for the story?"

Interesting question. At this early point in the book, I'm not quite sure. But I do know that the perfect, angelic Esther would never describe the court system or some of the other things happening in the way the third person narrator does. That's how I realized they were two different people. Maybe Dickens realized that and decided to use two narrators for what is obviously two different stories going on at the same time? Something to keep in mind as I continue further in the book.

Matt wrote: "Yes, that is correct. My understanding is that 2 narrators are used interchangeably throughout the story. I read in the intro in the version of Bleak House that I am reading that Charlotte Bronte c..."

Ooh, I can't wait to read your comparison. They do seem very different to me so far.

Kathy wrote: "So what purpose do you think the two different narrators serve for the story?"

They allow us contrary and possibly even opposite views of the same events/characters/descriptions.

Another subtle piece of the beginning is the description of the opening scenes with the fog and all. How does this foreshadow the social commentary that Dickens shares with us?

I'm at chapter 12.
From previous experience, I would say that in a "typical Dickens novel" a Mr. Jarndyce, anxious to protect, provide and cherish, shouldn't have appeared until much later. So intrigued.

I've only read A Christmas Carol by Charles Dickens. So this is my first serial Dickens. As I get further you will have to explain what you mean by Jarndyce type character typically appearing later.

The birds' names!! Bwahahahahaaa!!

Well, I don't think this will be a spoiler really. I meant that in some of his novels the home offered to the young people by Mr. Jarndyce would be a kind of a reward for fighting through adversity, and would naturally come near the end of the book.

I am loving this book so much, Matt. And I just told a friend of mine that I can see these characters, and I know what they are thinking. I can see and smell the Jellyby house, and nearly vomited with the description of Tom-all-Alone's (coming later for you). I think this might be my favorite book of the year so far.

And Paula, what you said in the first message about Esther being kind and eternally grateful is certainly true; but she also has good sense, and can resent injustice and wrong (as long as the injustice and wrong hurt someone else and not her). She's far from foolishly admiring everything and everyone.

The whole piece with Jellyby & Krook & the crazy old lady --- hilarious, but I waiting for the "why" of these characters. With just a little view, the anticipation of "what is really happening" is amazing. I don't know what I was expecting from this book, but it was not this. I can see how this one has become a classic.

Hmm, I think for me these Dickensian "comical" characters really need no reason, and moreover I generally find them representing the tragical side of life, especially those quite mad: we're laughing, but their lives are no laughing matter.

Comedy is often just tragedy in farcical form. We use humor to survive the bad stuff so it's ok to laugh.

That being said, I want to read this book!

Sherry wrote: "That being said, I want to read this book!"

Join us, it is quite good so far.

Is it obligatory for a positive Dickensian character to have no head for figures and no idea of financial transactions?
(chapter XXXIV, really quite frustrated)

I couldn't stand Mr. Skimpole from the first, and he gets worse and worse.

So while I know the characters and I understand the book is based around Jarndyce and Jarndyce case... I don't really understand the plot at all. I'm on chapter 25 and the only plot that I see so far is between Esther, Ada, and Richard. Will the plot direction come naturally?

I don't want to spoiler too much, but actually I feel that Dickens underlines rather heavily the hints that are going to develop into anything - (view spoiler)[Esther's parentage, for example, is clear almost in the first quarter of the book. (hide spoiler)]

Hi, all. I'm on page 450 or thereabouts, but haven't had time to post. Nente, I completely agree with your spoiler. Warner, there are several stories going on at once. Keep an eye on Esther, she's the one who holds it all together.

With all the birds' names, the old girl's greens and cloak and umbrella, the languishing William Guppy, the eye-starting Mr. Turveydrop and every other eccentric character - the most hilarious person in the whole book is definitely Sir Leicester Dedlock. Can you help laughing at him?

P.S. I seem to have almost monopolized the thread with my disjointed thoughts - excuse it please, it's impossible for me to read Dickens silently.

No apology necessary, Nente. These threads are meant to be used!

Having finished the novel in the middle of the night, I take it back about the baronet. He was as much on the tragic side of life as any other character.

The drawing-together of all threads in the end is masterly. I sometimes found the romance a little stilted, but justice is done to that in the end, too.

Nente wrote: "Having finished the novel in the middle of the night, ..."

Wow, you must of just focussed on reading book:Bleak House|31242]. I had thought to draw it out over the three months, but when I pick up another book to read, I just want to finish up this one. I might just do that. I feel sorry for the original readers who had to wait over the course of more than a year to finish the story by serial. I could see myself at that time, running down to the local printer (or wherever you got your serials) and waiting first in line for the next installment.

I finished the book just now, and I would like to say a huge THANK YOU to the person who nominated this book and brought it into my life. I would never have read this book if it hadn't been a group read, but it is now one of my favorite books I have ever read. This thing is a freaking masterpiece. Thank you, thank you.

I'm not finished, but am loving it!

Thank you to Crystal who nominated & Susan who seconded it.

Kathy wrote: "I'm not finished, but am loving it!

Thank you to Crystal who nominated & Susan who seconded it."

I guess I better get busy reading it :) Sounds amazing.

I'm about two-thirds through and am going to be swamped with work for the next two weeks, and therefore won't have much time for pleasure reading. If a rather inactive member is allowed to offer an opinion, I'm quite happy to drag it out over another month or two.

Yes, you are definitely allowed your opinion. And this read is scheduled July - September, so you have plenty of time to read Bleak House at a leisurely pace.

I haven't started mine yet you guys. I'm fighting a reading slump and trying to just read all kinds of stuff and see how I do. I hate this feeling! I'm soooo glad this discussion is until Sept. I would hope I can start reading some on it soon.

And then when I don't understand something, I can ask all of you because your all so smart :-)

This is definitely a book that I like taking my time with. There is just so much going on, so many details. So many characters who were NOT in the BBC mini-series!
I stopped after a couple pages last night because (view spoiler)[ I got to the part where Jo dies and I just couldn't take it. Poor little guy. I have a son about his age and it just breaks my heart that Jo has such a sad, short life, such a hard time of things, and no one really cares about him until it is too late. Anyway, waaaaaaaaaah! (hide spoiler)]

I added Bleak House to my Amazon Prime! I had no idea it was a mini series. I'm excited about watching it too, although, I'm not sure if I should wait until I'm done with the book...

I'm only on chapter 15, but I am really enjoying it. As usual, Dickens has some amusing character names that I love: the Jellybys, Mrs. Pardiggle, Mr. Guppy, Mr. Gusher, the Turveydrops and Peepy. I am sure there will be more fun names ahead, but there are so many already in this story. This is one of the things I love about Dickens's novels.

It is about to go down, you guys. Wait for it. :-)

Matt, I also had trouble getting into it. I felt that there were so many useless characters and that every other chapter was just a space filler about visiting a poor family. It took me two weeks of consistent reading to finish the first 500 pages. I kept getting distracted by other books on my shelves and it seemed that the plot would never pick up. I switched to the Kindle version (on books with a large page count, it discourages me to see how many pages are ahead) and started the second half and absolutely loved it. I realized why everyone was introduced and why this book is critically acclaimed. I always thought Dickens to be so boring, but I hadn't read any Dickens aside from "A Tale of Two Cities" and it was in 8th grade so this novel sparked a small flame of what could become a burning passion for Dickens.

All of a sudden, those random offshoots of stories become meaningful. It comes together beautifully.

I'm plugging along.
I'm on page 566 and a LOT of stuff has hit the proverbial fan.
(view spoiler)[ Hard on the heels of poor little Jo's death, Esther has been scarred, which is a sad thing, but am I the only one who finds her kind of annoying? So damn cheerful and grateful all the time. I'd like her better if she would just lose her temper and show a bit of human failing now and then! Also, what gives with her not allowing her darling Annoying Ada to come near her but poor little Charley, just a child, is put at risk every day, and that's perfectly OK because she's a servant??! (hide spoiler)]

Well Gaijinmama, I personally feel that Esther conveys her negative feelings very well, only in a delicate way that was to be expected of a "well-brought-up young lady". About Mrs. Jellyby, Mr. Turveydrop, Mr. Skimpole she's told us exactly what she thinks, and it more or less is what I'd think of them too. Can you blame her for not elaborating on that to others, who are related or friendly with these people?
And as to your spoiler - (view spoiler)[Charley cannot catch the smallpox from her, because she's just had it herself, and she's the one from whom Esther caught it when nursing her regardless of her own health. So Charley's just the only person in the house who is safe. (hide spoiler)]

Who are your favorite characters so far -- and let us know why.

I can't say I like these characters but I find them the most memorable and entertaining (in no particular order): Guppy, Mrs. Jellyby, Skimpole, Miss Flyte, and Lady Dedlock. I respect John Jarndyce, too, because he was one of the few who refused to let the Chancery case take over his life. I respect a person who simply gets off the bus and won't do the drama.
Of course, he has money and property. Easier to take the high road when you already have those (although many who have, waste their time trying to get more!)
Esther and Ada, I can't help it. I find them annoying. If I read one more "Dame Durden" or "little woman" or "my sweet girl" I'm skipping that page!

Paula wrote: "I finished the book just now, and I would like to say a huge THANK YOU to the person who nominated this book and brought it into my life. I would never have read this book if it hadn't been a group..."

My sentiments exactly! I loved this book so much. It will be one that stays with me forever. I'm so sad it's over.

Was this thread originally a no spoiler thread? I see so much discussion before the book was finished and a lot of hidden spoilers.

It's okay to post spoilers now isn't it? Want to be sure.

Yes, indeed. Post away.

Paula wrote: "Yes, indeed. Post away."

Thanks! I will. I'm dying to say that I thought the ending was so beautiful. I thought it beautiful when Ether was to marry Mr. Jarndyce and then even more so when it quickly turned into marrying Mr. Woodcourt. I cried. And I'm not very romantic type either.

I loved all of these characters, even the very flawed ones (except for Mr. Tulkinghorn and Miss Hortense). Esther, John Jarndyce and Allan Woodcourt were gorgeously pure souls who brought out the beauty in all the flawed characters.

One of my favorite characters was Mr. Boythorn he was so funny. I loved his interactions with Esther and his feud with Sir Leicester Dedlock. I didn't like Sir Leicester much until near the end when he forgave and still loved Lady Dedlock. I could go on and on about all the characters but it would turn into another book. I'll just say that I'll dearly miss them all.

This novel was so wonderfully character driven but there were such incredibly important narratives going on as well. Dickens had such a splendid way of bringing absurd humor to all of these dire situations. I laughed and cried for these characters and for all the unknowns who were stuck in similar situations in real life. The poor, the orphaned, the scandalized, and even the wealthy doomed by inheritance in a court system that helps no one but the lawyers.

Besides all the great characters and themes, I loved the language. It all had a beautiful ring to it. Some of my favorite words used" Parsimonious, benignity, dudgeon and deportment. I need to read more Dickens and more British novels. Have I gushed enough yet? Sorry. : /

Sue wrote: I thought it beautiful when Ether was to marry Mr. Jarndyce and then even more so when it quickly turned into marrying Mr. Woodcourt..."
Did you Sue? That was what I personally didn't like or find credible. Mr. Jarndyce is portrayed throughout as empathetic and considerate: why would he trifle with Esther by pretending they were going to be married, and even invite Mrs. Woodcourt to twist the knife around? Surely the kind thing to do would have been to make Esther and Mr. Woodcourt understand each other, as soon as he understood them both himself? I felt that the twist and the surprise Esther got were just so much customer-service, written for the readers' gratification, not for the truth of the story.