The Readers Review: Literature from 1714 to 1910 discussion

"Barchester Towers" Reading Schedule:

Chapters 1 - 6: July 17 - July 23
Chapters 6 - 12: July 24 - July 30
Chapters 13 - 18: July 31 - August 6
Chapters 19 - 23: August 7 - August 13
Chapters 24 - 28: August 14 - August 20
Chapters 29 - 33: August 21 - August 27
Chapters 34 - 38: August 28 - September 3
Chapters 39 - 43: September 4 - September 10
Chapters 44 - 48: September 11 - September 17
Chapters 49 - 53: September 18 - September 24

FYI - I'm trying to get the book to show as an Upcoming Read, but having some technical difficulties. Might be because I'm posting from my tablet. If I can't get it to work today/tomorrow, will do it from school on Tuesday.

I really loved this book. Some very colorful characters in the novel. It is mainly about church reform (this time Trollope really does put the church under a microscope, unlike "The Warden" where the church is in novel but it is mainly about moral dilemmas). But, it is also a study on behavior norms and people who push those norms.

Thank you for the schedule. It really helps to know it this far in advance so I can plan my reading.

I hadn't read the book description until now. Looks like we're going to see Dr. Grantly on the warpath again! That should be interesting. I'm worried though, because the description seems to suggest that we've lost one, possibly two, of our main characters from The Warden. :-( It looks like a wonderful book and I'm really looking forward to it!

Lori, you are discouraging me a little with your allusions to already known characters. You will have to help me then as I have not been able to read The Warden. I am looking forward to the read though.

Hedi wrote: "Lori, you are discouraging me a little with your allusions to already known characters. You will have to help me then as I have not been able to read The Warden. I am looking forward to the read th..."

Heidi, you will be fine. Trollope originally did not intend to make a series.

Hedi wrote: "Lori, you are discouraging me a little with your allusions to already known characters. You will have to help me then as I have not been able to read The Warden. I am looking forward to the read th..."

Don't worry. You'll get all you need to know in BT, and if you need any backstory just ask.

Thanks to you all. I have just started the novel. :-)

Without giving spoilers, the story moves on from The Warden so even though Dr. Grantly and Eleanor Bold (with a few scenes with Mr. Harding) are part of the novel, it really focuses on new characters.

So, not to worry if you didn't read The Warden. The few carry overs can be explained quite easily.

Thanks for the reading schedule, Lynnm, and good luck getting yr picture up.

I really enjoyed reading along with the group for The Warden and looking forward to this one too.

I also enjoyed reading The Warden along with the group, and I'm looking forward to Barchester Towers now. Trollope is such a find!

I started reading Barchester Towers. It refers briefly back to the Warden and does a quick recap of Mr. Harding's state of affairs at the end of the last book.

"He bore with the idolatry of Rome, tolerated even the infidelity of Socinianism, and was hand and glove with the Presbyterian Synods of Scotland and Ulster."

Trollope, Anthony. Barchester Towers (p. 17). . Kindle Edition.

"Socinian theology, as summarised in the Racovian Catechism, rejected the views of orthodox Christian theology on God's knowledge, on the doctrine of the Trinity and the divinity of Christ, and on soteriology."

"In Britain and North America, 'Socinianism' later became a catch-all term for any kind of dissenting belief. Sources in the 18th and 19th centuries frequently attributed the term 'Socinian' anachronistically, using it to refer to ideas that embraced a much wider range than the narrowly defined position of the Racovian catechisms and library."

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Socinia...

Blame this detour on currently reading William James with another board.

Lily, every bit of information helps to increase our understanding of unusual terms. Thanks.

Barchester Towers has been stretching my vocabulary. These might have been more useful if I had arranged them by chapter. But I do hope others will share those words that have sent them to the dictionary. For all of these, I was grateful for that Kindle feature, even where I was able to make a reasoned guess.

basilisk (mythical reptile with a lethal gaze, hatched by a serpent from a cock's egg -- also appears in Harry Potter apparently), asphodel (lily, immortal flower in the Elysian fields), cacoethes (irresistible urge to do something inadvisable), almoner (official distributor of alms), sizar (undergraduate at Cambridge receiving financial aid), recreant (cowardly), hebdomadal (weekly, esp. of organizational meetings), parterre (level space in a garden with ornamental flower beds), essayed (in the sense of "attempted"), verger (carrier of rod of office before church official), ci-devant (from a former time), collect (short prayer assigned to particular day or season), jejune (tedious, lacking value), moreen (ribbed curtain or upholstery material), precept, incubus (evil spirit visiting in nightmares, esp. molesting women), intoning, reversion (reverted to former state), emolument (compensation, salary), anathematize (curse, denounce), totted (add up numbers or amounts),...

Thank you, Lily. I had no idea what cacoethes was, and didn't want to make the effort to look it up.
And yes, there is a basilisk in Harry Potter 2: The Chamber of Secrets and has a very important role in the book.

Thanks, Lily. I must admit I was too lazy to look up these words though it might add to the overall understanding.

Hedi wrote: "Thanks, Lily. I must admit I was too lazy to look up these words though it might add to the overall understanding."

My trouble is that several (like jejune, emolument) I encounter seldom enough that I find myself looking them up again and again. But the dictionary feature really is nice, even if sometimes awkward or disruptive.

Rosemarie wrote: "And yes, there is a basilisk in Harry Potter 2: The Chamber of Secrets and has a very important role in the book...."

I found myself down a whole chain of mythical creatures, their overlaps, differences, and legends, especially cockatrice. Here it is used with our lovely Madame Neroni (Madeline).

I'm also told players of Dragons and Dungeons would know the term.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Basilisk
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cockatrice

Lily wrote: "Barchester Towers has been stretching my vocabulary. ..."

Nice list. But that use of jejune isn't one I was familiar with; I've only known the meaning of naive or innocent, usually applied to young girls in romances. But your definition is clearly the one Trollope intended.

Richness of vocabulary is a notable characteristic not only of Trollope but also of Hardy. And they weren't showing off; they just had extensive vocabularies and chose the right word even when it wasn't a common one.

The more that our young people rely on instant messaging and Twittering as their primary means of communication, the fewer writers we will have who can write so richly. May Trollope and Hardy and their ilk never be lost to us!

I had to look up preposessing: attractive or appealing in appearance.

That’s what I love about nineteenth-century fiction—the language! I love the richness and all the precise words. (I had seen hebdomadal but never paused to look it up; thank you! And was unfamiliar with cacoethes, too. Jejune I always thought of as meaning “callow.”)

If you really want to stretch your vocab, though, try the Staircase in Surrey series of novels by J. I. M. Stewart (Michael Innes in his mystery-writing persona). The first is The Gaudy. I remember being awed stiff by that one.

Abigail wrote: "If you really want to stretch your vocab, though, try ..."

I haven't read much of his stuff -- it sometimes takes more work than I am willing to put forth -- but if you enjoy vocabulary stretching you might try Marc Nash.

Lori wrote: "I had to look up preposessing: attractive or appealing in appearance."

Thx, Lori. That one was on my list, too. I certainly dropped some off in hopes that others (like you -- please keep them coming) would add to our collection. (You may note I didn't try to define at least a couple on the list I did post -- too lazy or too unsure in matching the range of meaning to the usage.)

It's funny, I never stop to look up words when reading fiction, I don't think I register them individually as long as it's mostly clear from the context. I have always read a lot of "old-fashioned" writing and studied several languages, so I did know almost all of those, (not cacoethes!) Or I feel like I know enough, for instance the verger is something in the church and that's good enough for me. On the other hand, I do regularly look up maps or historical events/figures mentioned in books I'm reading.

Robin wrote: "It's funny, I never stop to look up words when reading fiction, I don't think I register them individually as long as it's mostly clear from the context. I have always read a lot of "old-fashioned"..."

I pretty well do the same when reading, in English and in foreign languages too. I will look up a word if the meaning is essential, but generally not. I do check historical names and often google place names to help visualize the story.

Interesting, Lily! I looked at Marc Nash’s page. May follow him! Thank you.

Robin wrote: "On the other hand, I do regularly look up maps."

I'm with you there. I love looking at where events take place. A favorite diversion is tracking some of Dickens's characters as they travel through London or about the countryside. I've spent happy times traveling through the marshes and locations of Great Expectations.

Barchester Towers was the book for our local library book discussion yesterday. Our leader brought pictures of Salisbury Cathedral, one of Trollope's sources of inspiration, to our attention:


View of Salisbury Cathedral from the Bishop's Grounds, (oil on canvas) c.1822 by John Constable (Getty)

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/relig...

An architect's photo tour: http://www.lifeofanarchitect.com/a-ph...

"Salisbury Cathedral is an elegant Gothic edifice located in Salisbury, about 90 miles southwest of London. Built almost entirely in the 13th century..."

http://www.sacred-destinations.com/en...

A major restoration under Sir George Gilbert Scott was undertaken in 1859 -- now, when was Barchester Towers written? (1855-57)

http://i.telegraph.co.uk/multimedia/a...



If I have interpreted the text correctly, this shows the Bishop's Palace. Please correct me if need be. It seems so close to the Cathedral, given Constable's painting.

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/relig...

Consider googling Salisbury Cathedral images. I enjoyed doing so and probably picked up an insight or two about the community as well.

How convenient that it should be your library pick just now, Lily! Or did you have something to do with that? ;-)

Another thing about Salisbury Cathedral is that it sits in one of the flattest plains in England, so with its tall steeple it is a very dominant presence in the entire region—and would have been more so in Trollope’s day, with fewer buildings in general and no high-rises. It was the center of attention, both literally and figuratively. Maybe that has something to do with Trollope’s choice of making the Church a centerpiece in his stories, instead of, say the landed gentry.

I googled Salisbury Cathedral images and it really does stand out and towers above the plain. The interior views are wonderful too.

Lily wrote: "http://i.telegraph.co.uk/multimedia/a...

Great pics. Thanks.

Abigail wrote: "How convenient that it should be your library pick just now, Lily! Or did you have something to do with that? ;-)"

Ironically, I didn't, Abigail. I almost missed the discussion -- I don't go every month; between these groups, a f2f group I've been a member of for 26 years, and my own reading interests, I can overextend. But I was glad to catch this one. I have some material from the leader, one of our librarians, that I hope I can continue to share.

"Another thing about Salisbury Cathedral is that it sits in one of the flattest pla..."

Thanks for the first hand insight. Glad so many of you enjoyed the images. It was fun to look for them. I first became aware of this Cathedral, at the level of readily recognizing it, from a Jacquie Lawson Christmas ecard that featured its choir at Christmas a number of years ago now. If I knew how, I'd link it here.

Although an image of the Cathedral is often used on book covers for TBT, Barnes and Noble uses a closeup of the front of the Cathedral and one misses the setting on the plain. The church overwhelms everything else; I don't think that is quite what happens in the text of the novel itself.

Thanks for the pictures, Lily - wonderful!!!

I got curious about Vicar Arabin's alma mater Balliol. Some of you may enjoy these links, including the photographs:

"Balliol College, founded in 1263, is one of the constituent colleges of the University of Oxford in England.

"Among the college's alumni are three former prime ministers (H. H. Asquith, who once described Balliol men as possessing 'the tranquil consciousness of an effortless superiority', Harold Macmillan, and Edward Heath), five Nobel laureates, and a number of literary figures and philosophers. Political economist Adam Smith is perhaps the best known alumnus of the college."
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Balliol...

John I de Balliol

"John de Balliol (died 25 October 1268) was a leading figure of Scottish and Anglo-Norman life of his time. Balliol College, in Oxford, is named after him."

"Following a dispute with the Bishop of Durham, he agreed to provide funds for scholars studying at Oxford. Support for a house of students began in around 1263; further endowments after his death, supervised by Dervorguilla, resulted in the establishment of Balliol College."

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/John_I_...

The general location of our story? To the extent it is in relationship to Salisbury? (I wanted to find something that told me where subsidiary churches were located -- there seemed to be so many of them. Found a map for Dunham Cathedral -- maybe -- but have been unsuccessful for Salisbury.) Wiki lists four archdeaconries and nineteen deaconeries currently.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Diocese...

Lily wrote: "I got curious about Vicar Arabin's alma mater Balliol. Some of you may enjoy these links, including the photographs:

"Balliol College, founded in 1263, is one of the constituent colleges of the U..."

Balliol is also the alma mater of Lord Peter Wimsey.

Lily wrote: "The general location of our story? ..."

The author of 'The Barsetshire Chronicles' seems to have had a predilection for making maps (like the author of 'The Lord of the Rings'?) - https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Barsets...

Check the 'External Links' section for maps in a readable size.

Wendel wrote: "The author of 'The Barsetshire Chronicles' seems to have had a predilection for making maps (like the author of 'The Lord of the Rings'?)..."

Or Hardy for his Wessex Country?

Thanks for the Barsetshire maps, Wendel. I like having a sense of where he considered Plumstead and St. Ewold to be.

Everyman wrote: "Balliol is also the alma mater of [Lord Peter Wimsey. ..."

Fun! Let's see now, the [author:Dorothy L. Sayers|8734] creation for her mystery series....

(I guess author add isn't working at the minute. Will come back later and fix -- if I remember.)