Fantasy Buddy Reads discussion

Starting 8/6

In.

In!

So assuming it's just you and I any interest in moving this up to 8/1?

We should be done with The Price of Valour by then and I'd like to start
The Guns of Empire when it comes out on the 9th not having a Malazan hangover.

I would be good with moving it to the 1st.

Jenna wrote: "I would be good with moving it to the 1st."

Sweet.

I've finished up everything I've been reading and couldn't resist getting started.

OMFG NOBODY write prologues like Erikson!!

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How can you not love the visual he paints with K’Chain Che’Malle (velociraptors) taking on thousands of Tiste (dark elves) and soul taken dragons thrown in for good measure. No but wait that's not epic enough we need Gothos ready to preserve it all but making a deal with the god of the sea. Their banter was awesome.

Scabandari sounds like he's tailor made for the HOC and what a great name Silchas Ruin is!!!!! So in HOC I thought the crucified dragon was the crippled god but now I'm wondering if that was a foretelling of Ruin's fate?

Scabandari and Rake have a date with destiny. Nothing like reuniting mother Dark's children.

The just for good measure we get, who I have to believe is the crippled god, stealing a sword maker. Perhaps to break Dragnipur? His ultimate revenge to end the world? It would lead into Rake vs Scab.

Also I loved:
Mael was silent for a time, then he sighed and said, ‘With your ice, Gothos, do not destroy all of this. Instead, I ask that you… preserve.’ ‘Why?’‘I have my reasons.’

‘I am pleased for you. What are they?’ The Elder god shot him a dark look. ‘Impudent bastard.’

‘Why change?’

‘In the seas, Jaghut, time is unveiled. In the depths ride currents of vast antiquity. In the shallows whisper the future. The tides flow between them in ceaseless exchange. Such is my realm. Such is my knowledge. Seal this devastation in your damned ice, Gothos. In this place, freeze time itself. Do this, and I will accept an indebtedness to you… which one day you might find useful.’ Gothos considered the Elder god’s words, then nodded. ‘I might at that. Very well, Mael. Go to Kilmandaros. Swat down this Tiste Eleint and scatter his people. But do it quickly.’

Pure Erikson brilliance.
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Scott wrote: "I've finished up everything I've been reading and couldn't resist getting started.

OMFG NOBODY write prologues like Erikson!!


How can you not love the visual he paints with K’Chain Che’Malle (v..."

Now who's the one cheating?!

Jenna wrote: "Now who's the one cheating?! ."

Turnabout....

So let's just say I was lost a few times in chapter one like I've never been in this series not even GOTM. It was still really good but there's a few portions where he's talking about shit that's never been approached before and a lot of it is in cryptic poetic fashion. The dark imagery of it was still amazing but it made my head spin.

For the first time in a long time I had to read the entire TOR re-read for a chapter to be sure I had it down.

Also

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The Edur remind me of the Toblakai in a lot of ways.
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Chapter two

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If the first four books had a European and North African flavor this book definitely has a new world one. Definitely heavily influenced by the Indian Tribes. The crown is interesting with a bit of English and French influence but also a bit or Oriental thrown in.

The statue of the ships being a fountain of youth so to speak has to tie into the broken warren. I think we'll find out a lot more about those headless crews as well. The trapped souls behind the translucent obsidian.......also with the healing powers otateral?

Hull seems like the character you want to root for. He also has that tragic feel to him. I wonder at his being an Itkovian like character who sacrifices himself for the tribes. Erikson love the number three. The three Hull brothers, Trull and his brothers make three, the three sisters who want to get rich.....

Buruk reminds me of a drunken Kruppe.

The deck of dragons being different but having the empty hold and the betrayer was portentous.

There's so much going on still I grasping trying to figure it all out.
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Chapter three

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So the Edur have been told that Scabandari was betrayed not the betrayer. Now I have to wonder if he's the crucified dragon or is his absence more lies?

Hannan Mosag is waging war against the Letherii and using a warren not of his own and we learn is looking to take on the elder gods. This stinks of a HOC's alliance. The sharks showing up with bloated broken stomachs from the magic reminds me of Karsa in the warren.

The binding of coins and wax was very Egyptian in nature and Erikson's profession comes clear. I found the process fascinating and I bet if I looked into it more it would resemble the Pharaoh's own.

Udinaas having visions and meeting daughter light and her having her way with him has to play into something but no clue what yet. I'm wondering if Daughter Dawn is tied into Lady Envy, maybe her sister or something? Lady Spite? If she produces a child will it be one we know of already?

I had to look it up but Kaschan is the K’Chain Che’Malle. So if he's access that it's another tie to the crippled god.

Rhulad is setting up to be the betrayer of Trull who sets up his shame and banishment.

Still lots of confusion but slowly putting more together.
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chapter 4

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The most interesting thing in this chapter happens last with the Azath house dying and potentially release 5 Toblakai which are it's oldest inhabitants. If the Crippled God ends up with the Edur and some Toblakai on his side that's pretty formidable. Who's the one person who can hear the conversation between Shurq Elalle and Kettle.

The blackwood boats that can repair themselves have to be otateral like Karsa's sword.

The Queen and her allies would seem to be the ones stirring up a war with the Edur which is a mistake.

Ublala beating the challenge by having four lungs and walking along the bottom was funny as was his pissing on the docks with his....well........endowed.......hmmmmmm.

Speaking off out of character for Erikson WTF with the tusked seal sperm drink? This has to be some tribal thing from the Eskimos or some other group.

Shurq Elalle and Kettle seem more like a Bauchelain & Broach characters. Something tells me they're not bit characters however.

Much like the start of HOC I'm struggling to find where the story is going. In Erikson I trust but this definitely hasn't gone where I thought. The Edur haven't been the focal point for much of the story.
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Cheater.

Guilty.

Watch out - the Lady of Moon's Spawn will exact her revenge.

Jenna wrote: "Watch out - the Lady of Moon's Spawn will exact her revenge."

You'll catch me. I don't plan on ripping through it. Since we bowed out of Guns of Empire my August schedule allows me to relax and enjoy.

Chapter 5

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Chapter 5 was really cool. The conversation between slave and wither who is a Andii soul bound to serve is dark and yet funny. I hope there's a lot more of that relationship and their revenge.

Udinaas flying on a wyval and seeing Silchas Ruin in dragon form. It's always amazing how Erikson makes the ice freezing the scenes for a hundred thousand years seem so poetic and dramatic.

The holds and tiles are all coming active which hopefully means more visits from some gods coming up.

Mayden and Rhulad.......let's just say they're going to cause some big trouble.
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Chapter 6

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I think this book more than any of the others Erikson does some really dark prose that's confusing as hell to follow and then follows it up with scenes that are British batty humor. I end up re-reading sections trying to figure out the gist.

The sea monster or demon from the depths. Still confused as to what that portends. It's brilliantly written.

Bugg is an interesting little character. I'm torn if he's simply a younger version of Emancipator Reese from the B&KB books or is there more to him like a Kruppe? Leaning towards the former but still......

The Elder God the Edur are controlling has to be the K'Chain Che'Malle god. Brys scene where he aids the elder gods was cool and Itkovian-esque.

BTW although not part of this scene it dawned on me that the white crow who keeps popping up is either an agent of Silchas Ruin or a second soul taken form. His character being bound and yet seemingly having more freedom than Scabandari is interesting. Being one of Mother Dark's children has it's privileges I guess.

Kettle killing all of the spies......Erikson has some type of big role for her. It brought to mind the DHG quote children are dying.....I have to feel there's going to be a huge message coming with her character.

Shurq's sexual reawakening was so funny as where some of the comments back to her.......that's the spirit experiment, LOL.
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Chapter 7

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I think this book more than any other is a direct reflection on Erikson's thoughts on today's world.

‘And this is what lies at the heart of the Nerek ancestor worship?’ ‘Was, Seren Pedac. You forget, their culture is destroyed.’ ‘Cultures can die, Hull, but the people live on, and what they carry within them are the seeds of rebirth—’ ‘A delusion, Seren Pedac,’ he replied. ‘Whatever might be born of that is twisted, weak, a self-mockery.’ ‘Even stone changes. Nothing can stand still—’ ‘Yet we would. Wouldn’t we ? Oh, we talk of progress, but what we really desire is the perpetuation of the present . With its seemingly endless excesses, its ravenous appetites. Ever the same rules, ever the same game.’

The Letherii definitely represent modern economic imperialism and how cultures are destroyed in the name of progress and modernization.

LOVED Udinaas vision of the sisters and cousin and all of the instinctual relationships of the gods. And the offspring of such gods? Spite and Envy! Yet again more messages to the modern dogmatic religions and how their power is derived from the people where the ancient Pagan gods of nature are dead. Thus these religions thirst to expand.

The forces of light, dark and shadow all blurring together and continually allying and betraying each other a common theme and more 3's.

Tiam was an interesting character in this as well the reborn mother of the savior. Christ, Krishna and Horus reoccurring in themes of different times and religions.

The last two chapters this is really starting to come together and pick up. Some great scenes and nuggets of info.

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I am so behind and will comment on this discussion later today, I promise.

Jenna wrote: "I am so behind and will comment on this discussion later today, I promise."

I'm only 190 pages in and probably won't make much progress today so no worries. I'm working on another book which is a much easier read and I'm a bit worn down so I've been reading more of that.

Scott wrote: "I've finished up everything I've been reading and couldn't resist getting started.

OMFG NOBODY write prologues like Erikson!!"

Agree with literally everything you said in this spoiler - the prologue was brilliant, as always.

Chapter 2

(view spoiler)[ After the prologue and the first two chapters, I feel like this book is going to be the battle of the brothers! First, we have Mother Dark's sons and now Tehol and Hull and what's-his-name. There are way too many new people...I'm getting confused again. I thought Tehol was hilarious though. Nice beginning, but I'm more confused than I've been in awhile. (hide spoiler)]

Jenna wrote: "Chapter 2

[spoilers removed]"

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Every time there's a chapter where I feel I'm on solid ground the next one sends me reeling in confusion.
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chapter 8

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That was a tough chapter. I'm not sure I got all the symbolism and I'm not sure Rhulad is really dead. I have to feel Mayen somehow set this up or used Feather Witch to foresee something and he's coming back to haunt them all.

I thought there would be a bit more shown from the prologue battle. I also wouldn't have minded an encounter with the hinted at Mammoths.

The watcher has to be Gothos. Are the Jheck soultaken white wolves?

I might have to re-read this chapter when I'm done with the book. It's another highly poetic chapter that I think will make more sense with context.
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Chapter 9, otherwise known as the chapter where my faith in Erikson is rewarded. The chapter where I think oh you stupid idiot why did you not see that coming.

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So the chapter starts and I'm thinking who's Withal? I know the name but can't place it. So I keep reading and I'm trying to guess and the Bhoka’ral show up and it hits me like a mountain. Oh crap he's the sword maker and this is the CD's island and HOLY CRAP that's Rhulad and the sword from the prologue was the sword they captured in the last chapter. HOW did I not see that coming?

I have a hard time not seeing the CD as the emperor from Star Wars all disfigured and evil and worse I hear the voice

‘Peace, my young warrior, is born of relief, endured in exhaustion, and dies with false remembrance. False? Ah, perhaps I am too cynical. Too old, witness to far too much. Do honour, loyalty and sacrifice truly exist? Are such virtues born only from extremity? What transforms them into empty words, words devalued by their overuse? What are the rules of the economy of the spirit, that civilization repeatedly twists and mocks?’

And then this gem

‘Oh no,’ the Crippled God hissed, ‘not the Daughters. I have taken you. Chosen you. Because your king betrayed me! Your king hungered for the power I offered, but not for conquest. No, he simply sought to make himself and his people unassailable.’ Misshapen fingers curled into fists. ‘Not good enough!’

Such a great chapter. Rhulad coming back the next chapter was expected but I thought they were going to have him encased in gold coins which is now seems they'll be removed. When he clenches the sword and says this is what he meant was such a simple and yet great moment.
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Chapter 10

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So coming off chapter 9 this chapter is more in the B&KB mode of absurd humor. A few of the more subtle lines did make me laugh out loud.

Brys and Tehol do share a series moment about how to play the game of thrones and the eventual need to avenge Hull when his demise takes place.

And then it ends on a really serious note with Kettle telling us the house is dead and the bad people are coming. Who is her friend beneath the Azath grounds? Silchas Ruin?

Erikson in this book has definitely adapted a style of foreboding and very dark followed by farce.


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Chapter 11........more epic

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Rhulad taking the throne and Mayen. Shockingly she doesn't seem on board with it. He's already calling out Trull. The Letherii know they're screwed. Given the timeline I don't see how they aren't conquered and assimilated as slaves into the Edur culture completely.

I'm calling it now Karsa kills Rhulad. The would be Knight of Chains once again being a thorn in the Crippled God's plans and killing his mortal sword (I'm assuming that's Rhulad's place).
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I'm on chapter 5 now, but I really need to read the Tor re-read. There are so many new characters - I feel like this is GotM all over again. And everyone is someone's brother...

Jenna wrote: "I'm on chapter 5 now, but I really need to read the Tor re-read. There are so many new characters - I feel like this is GotM all over again. And everyone is someone's brother..."

This is the first book I was confused in. I hear the people who have read the books multiple times say certain books are better in the re-read. This is the first one where I believe it. There's some great chapters coming up though.

Chapter 12......there is some amazing imagery in this chapter and Erikson really calls out modern society. There's so much quotable material.

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Curious there's a Jaghut wandering the city to capture a demon they previously put away.

Bugg is looking more like Kruppe every chapter. There's more there than meets the eye. He seems to have knowledge of Jaghut, Forkrul Assail, T'Lan Imass and other groups who aren't as known here.

So who's trapped in the Azath? Silchas Ruin, Sheltatha Lore, Menandore, Scabandari? Who's gave Brys his vision? I think this was Silchas Ruin by the description. Also lets not forget as Erikson loves to bring stuff back up from chapters ago which our minds have moved on from that there's 5 Toblokai trapped in there. He gets me on those forgotten items because of the massive scope of these books all the time.

Fighting Kallor brought down the crippled god? I don't know if this was spelled out in the other books. I thought he was thrown down into this realm. Interesting that he and Kallor would now team up. Also Kallor being that powerful and yet Rake and Brood more so is interesting.

Saviour and Betrayer coalesced Rhulad? I think it has to be but maybe it's Trull? Will he betray and eventually save his people? Another theory is releasing Ruin who was made the betrayer by blood eye he becomes the salvation?

The chapter ending with the ominous note of the Ceda not knowing the true implications because Brys doesn't tell him she's dead. I'm not sure what this implies.
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Chapter 13..........So after a confusing start this is shaping up to potentially be the best of the series. SOOOOoooo many interesting plot lines interwoven that can go almost in any direction.

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I never would have said it a hundred pages ago but man Rhulad is becoming a Greek tragic figure that you end up feeling bad for. The sex scene was so painful and then couple that with the slave scene where they're indebted and one in the same bound to a master. At the same time you know he's going to screw Trull and everybody else but his comments about the Crippled God offering suggestions and his little schisms while this is happening.

Feather Witch might be the least likable female character since early Felisin.

More symbolism of the real world

Scott Hitchcock > My Quotes

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“Destiny is a lie. Destiny is justification for atrocity. It is the means by which murderers armour themselves against reprimand. It is a word intended to stand in place of ethics, denying all moral context.”

Scott Hitchcock > My Quotes

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Remove this quote from your collectionSteven Erikson
“Destiny is a lie. Destiny is justification for atrocity. It is the means by which murderers armour themselves against reprimand. It is a word intended to stand in place of ethics, denying all moral context.”

“Do not seek to find hope among your leaders. They are the repositories of poison. Their interest in you extends only so far as their ability to control you. From you, they seek duty and obedience, and they will ply you with the language of stirring faith. They seek followers, and woe to those who question, or voice challenge. ‘Civilization after civilization, it is the same. The world falls to tyranny with a whisper.”

Half of the last two chapters are one amazing quote after another and the symbolism so striking.
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Chapter 14.......Erikson is getting really good at flipping the switch where a scene starts out with absurd humor and WHAM series altering information. Since chapter 9 on this has been as good as it gets.

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Bugg makes an off-handed comment about being celibate for "what seems like thousands of years." NO CHANCE that wasn't his tongue in cheek being true. He has to be an ascendant. And he can smell blood. He's the waiting man? Waiting for what?

Sheltatha Lore and Silchas Ruin both have scores to settle when they get out. If they ruined an Edur attacking coming out of nowhere in Dragon form that would be epic.

I totally didn't see Kettle being the child of Udinaas and Menandore coming and no way anybody could have seen her sharing a body with a Forkrul Assail.

Pretty funny Sheltatha Lore sleeping and saying those bitches. I coughed out some green tea!

Not that it didn't happen in the other books but not to this degree. The metaphors for the evils of capitalism and the modern world are ubiquitous.
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Thanks for all the comments Scott. I really need to read this again. I remember thinking it as one of the best in the series and even as a stand alone it is awesome.

Lundos wrote: "Thanks for all the comments Scott. I really need to read this again. I remember thinking it as one of the best in the series and even as a stand alone it is awesome."

I have a feeling this will be better when I re-read it. It's awesome so far, but not as great as the rest of the series for me. We shall see when I get a bit further.

It's different from the first four that's for sure. For me the Tehol/Bugg relationship is amazingly written. And the book gives depth to the Malazan world.

Lundos wrote: "It's different from the first four that's for sure. For me the Tehol/Bugg relationship is amazingly written. And the book gives depth to the Malazan world."

Tehol is my favourite character so far in this book.

Lundos wrote: "Thanks for all the comments Scott. I really need to read this again. I remember thinking it as one of the best in the series and even as a stand alone it is awesome."

Thanks for reading them. There's no other series where I write so much in the spoilers because there's no other series with they myriad of thought provoking action going on.

Jenna wait until chapter 9. The world comes into focus and things start to go boom in the night........or is is shadow? :)

Chapter 15.........damn I totally got something earlier wrong.......

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I was so sure Kettle was the child of Menandore and Udinaas!!!! All the hints were there but the boy is definitely their child. Twins? Maybe, but for now I'll have to assume I was wrong about Kettle. Either way who will this boy of dragon blood end up being somewhere in the future? If it was in fact twins the dragon vs the Forkrul Assail what would that mean and will there be strife?

Didn't see the Buruk suicide coming at all.

The mages burning out 4 villages is the condemning of modern warfare.

Interesting that the commander in charge is called Twilight and even more so that she's surrendering. Everything in the war is pointing to the Edur routing the Letherii which of course makes me think there's no way that's going to happen. In HOC and MOI there's references to the T'Lan Imass fighting on a different continent and Wither makes reference to them being forgotten dust underneath their feet. Now in the Dragon Realm we see them again. I have to believe they are going to change the paradigm and make this more of a protractor war which goes on for eons.
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Chapter 16

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The Crimson Guard!!! After hearing about them since GOTM it's nice to have an appearance. I have a feeling they are going to become the BridgeBurners 2.0.

So Mayen is back on the despicable wagon beating Feather Witch and raping her. It almost sounds like it's because Rhulad won't pleasure her that way.

Erikson definitely isn't afraid to throw rape into battles. I wonder if there's a pattern and message beyond the obvious. Poor Seren she's had a rough go over the last few chapters.

Rhulad becomes a true figure of pathos and cannot die or escape the Crippled God. I cannot help it but I just love the Crippled God's character and look forward to his scenes wishing there were more of them. Withal is now trapped and with the Tiste Andii. It seems like he has some plans though.

So the sword is made from the remains of two blades....Silchas Ruin's blades or perhaps one from him and one from Bloodeye?

Speaking of Ruin I know I speculated on the T'Lan Imass making this more of a war of attrition but his breakout could do the same especially if he takes over the Andii wraths.

Withal prays to Mael......I know this forebodes something but I'm not sure what. (Apparently reading the TOR re-read this ties into Bugg which I hadn't made that connection at all.)

Sandalath Drukorlat who is her daughter? (After the re-read it appear to be Korlat which is what I was leaning towards.)

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Chapters 17 + 18 (shorter ones)

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Bugg and Tehol definitely balance the scales a bit with everything else going. The restaurant scene and the ghosts taking over the repository were too funny.

I'm still not sure what the consequence of Kettle being undead and coming alive is.

Is the hold of death related to the house of chains? Or is it a different one? Just in this realm?

The symbolism of the broken warren, the crippled god, all of the modern day commentary on war and greed, the similarities to the American Indians....all coming more and more.

The contrast between Trull and Fear......trull in old English is to wander or hunt for quarry without scent of path. Fear we obviously know. Fear knows he is right which is the biggest betrayal.

The battle scenes were pretty awesome.

"For the burned villages. Retribution. Where were the moneylenders? This war belonged to them, after all."

Great line.


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Come Night of Knives, I will have my revenge on your speediness for this one.

I haven't been lighting it up and night of knives is only 370-ish pages so go for it. :)

Bone hunters is over 1200 so I'll set my sites there!

I just finished chapter 6 - I think this is the turning point for me - I'm really starting to love the story and the characters - especially Tehol and Bugg.

It's not that I didn't like the first 8 chapters. There were some brilliant moments and the writing, you can see how he's improved over time. I had the confusion many scream about with GOTM. I never had that with GOTM. I think a re-read of this book I would pick up so many things in those first 8 chapters that I missed the first time around.

Chapters 19+20 (shorter ones)

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I keep trying to figure out what, when and how Udinaas and Wither will strike. The Rhulad, Mayen and Feather Witch trio are such lost and broken souls.

I had wondered at the presence of the first concubine and consort from the very start since those weren't characters seen in any other realms.

‘So much of my life, Brys Beddict—here in this palace— can be characterized as fulfilling the role of objective observer in the proceedings of state, and in the domestic travails upon which, it must be said, my fortune depends. Rather, depended. In this, I am no different from my counterpart, the First Concubine. We were present as symbols, after all. And so we behaved accordingly.’

The symbols of greed and lust and lust being power. I am wondering at the first consort wanting to kill the JHeck god.

Bugg......So he sees a god and his guilt. Mael? Why do they not want the T'lan Imass to rise? I've been waiting for it. The Toblakai can't do shit to but and they fear awakening the Forkrul Assail within Kettle....interesting.

Are the avowed ascended? Interesting they reference Kellivand. I had thought this timeline much before that of current events in the first four books but it would seem not so much.

The house of death was blocked but is rising. Gothos magic thawing.

Doing the re-read after writing this Amanda has a great thought "And so to Book Four and our final showdown in Midnight Tides. Makes me wonder whether we’ll have the truly explosive ending of Deadhouse Gates, or the quieter ending of House of Chains!"

PLEASE Deadhouse Gates!!!!!!! That HOC ending was so unrewarding compared to the endings of the first three books.

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Chapter 21

(view spoiler)[4.75 books in we get a great description of warrens and how they overlap and how to use them. Magic of the mind with Seren. A great glimpse of how this land has been left behind in time......frozen one might say.

Sad that Seren won't continue on with the Crimson Guard. I figured she might play a bigger role back in the main world.

The Dresh lake story and analogy was awesome and portentous.

Rhulad drown a land.....and a warren......things we've seen.

Trull knowing he hasn't changed with his people. How will the final betrayal fall?
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Chapter 22, another short one as are 23 and 24 (I only checked their length I haven't read them yet) but 25 is mammoth.......which I'm hoping means epic ending.

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So I certainly didn't see the consort being Errant coming. It would make sense that Bugg knew and that's who he talked to in the streets. Interesting he wants the Jheck god dead. Even more interesting he was the master of the deck......which is Paran's role. So I have to assume he's going down or because this warren is isolated there's one for each but I'm leaning towards the former.

You know the screen with Rhulad, Fear and Trull which should have been a good reunion of brothers made me sad for Trull knowing what's to come.

Udinaas not saying straight out to Trull that he won't betray Rhulad pretty much assures it's a done deal.

Brys "May the errant be with you" LOL

The demons bickering and needing to pee like children was funny. So we have a Forkrul Assail freed and from HOC's they'll pretty much kill everybody to achieve peace.
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Scott wrote: "It's not that I didn't like the first 8 chapters. There were some brilliant moments and the writing, you can see how he's improved over time. I had the confusion many scream about with GOTM. I neve..."

Yeah, I was actually more confused than with GotM in this one. Probably because I wasn't expecting to be confused at this point in the series. Another Erikson surprise!