William T Vollmann Central discussion

There exist books which would seem to align themselves closely to the spirit of Vollmann's project of Seven Dreams: A Book of North American Landscapes. Here is what occurs to me as criteria for nomination ::

1) "North American".
2) Something historical, something fictional ; something larger than historical fiction.
3) A language larger than life, somehow Dreamy.
4) A cultural encounter/clash which has determined the structure of our real world today ; winners and losers ;; not to forget the role technology plays in this encounter/clash.
5) Probably some other things.
6) Nominators in this category should be well acquainted with the Seven Dreams ; this list of criteria is derivative and non=determinative.
7) Seven Dreams ; Seven Criteria

Haven't had the chance to read it yet, but I would think John Dos Passos USA Trilogy might be a good option.

The Adventures of Augie March, Under the Volcano, Blood Meridian, or the Evening Redness in the West, Obasan. Nitpick away.

The Sot-Weed Factor comes to mind, but there is something nagging at me, telling me "it does not belong here". Oh great goodreads masses, tell me, why is it I feel such a thing? And could I be wrong?

Seems like there has to be at least one real historical figure (not sure if that's the case in any but sot weed). Actually, Trotsky is glimpsed in Augie March. The biggest thing I think of with the dream series is the hard edged tone. Blood Meridian definitely has that, and the judge character has the demonic feel of some of Vollmann's characters.

Geoff wrote: "The Sot-Weed Factor comes to mind, but there is something nagging at me, telling me "it does not belong here". Oh great goodreads masses, tell me, why is it I feel such a thing? And could I be wr..."

Definitely not. The Dreams are designed for use in a classroom, ie, the historical material is central to their very existence ;; Barth couldn't give two hoots about history, as he explains to the Maryland Historical Society (cf one of those Friday books).

Aubrey wrote: "The Adventures of Augie March, Under the Volcano, Blood Meridian, or the Evening Redness in the West, Obasan. Nitpick away."

Can't say they sound right to my ear. Obasan, maybe, but the 'based on the author's own experience' would exclude it.

James wrote: "Haven't had the chance to read it yet, but I would think John Dos Passos USA Trilogy might be a good option."

Maybe. It would depend on the extent to which he takes sides ; the relationship of fiction to historical ; and the manner in which oppositions are set up within the novel.

We'll have to exclude 'The Ice-Shirt' on the basis of the included author's own experience, in that case.

Nathan "N.R." wrote: "Barth couldn't give two hoots about history"

Okay yes, that was what was nagging at me, the invention. Del Paso sticks to the facts (at least as he sees them) but dreams the fiction weaved around the facts... so I stand by News From The Empire...

Terra Nostra seems like a candidate

Aubrey wrote: "We'll have to exclude 'The Ice-Shirt'"

That wouldn't make any sense since the criteria derive from The Ice-Shirt and the other three extant Dreams.

James wrote: "Terra Nostra seems like a candidate"

Possibly. Likely?

What are the Seven Dreams?

Reading Fathers and Crows reminded me a great deal of the Memories of Fire trilogy by Eduardo Galeano. It is a sort of poetic history of the American continents that begins with the myths of the indigenous inhabitants, and then details in a fragmentary, perhaps, dreamlike manner the interactions between whites, indigenous and slaves imported from Africa. I think structurally and thematically the works are fairly similar.

Joshua wrote: "Reading Fathers and Crows reminded me a great deal of the Memories of Fire trilogy by Eduardo Galeano."

Oh I think we do might have a candidate. And it's no small thing that this is the same guy made famous by a certain gift by a certain Hugo Chavez to a certain World Leader.

The Public Burning?

Definitely a clash of cultures - Uncle Sam versus the Phantom (of Communism - and the role of technology - radio/television/advertising.

Hadrian wrote: "The Public Burning?

Definitely a clash of cultures - Uncle Sam versus the Phantom (of Communism - and the role of technology - radio/television/advertising."

Nope! We need something more like Conqueror and Conquered ; The clash of Cap & Com is more like the equal but opposite clashing of irresistibles and immovables. Also perhaps we would require a longer time scheme.

James wrote: "Terra Nostra seems like a candidate"

I’m going to second Terra Nostra. It’s a good candidate for the expanded Seven Dreams. Spain vs. indigenous Mexico, and the meaning of history and time - and what does it bode for the “old” world to learn about the existence of a “new” world. Fuentes is more concerned with symbolic history than literal truth, but I would give this one the thumbs up.