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Ruth
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Ruth > Week 3: Chapters 17-24

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Anastasia Kinderman | 701 comments Mod
Week 3 discussion thread.


message 2: by Viv (new) - rated it 4 stars

Viv JM | 81 comments I'm not sure if I'm the only one reading this, though I see I am a week ahead...I can't really work out why Mr Bellingham is (view spoiler)

Overall, I am quite enjoying the book. The characters are certainly well fleshed out and Ruth has developed from being ultra naive to being a very dignified young woman altogether. I do hope that (view spoiler)


Terry The name change confused me too. Later it just mentions that he changed it. As if it was a common occurance. I guess like Ruth Hilton becoming Mrs. Denbigh. No one had ID like today. It was just your word to be trusted.


Terry I really like the book too! Where r all the readers??? It really is shocking how horrible so called "fallen women" were treated and, for the rest of their lives! And their poor children. Having to literally hide from society. And of course no consequences for the men, pretty much.
All the crying and crying sort of gets old but is common in the Victorian literature.
My other observation is that they mention living very poor with few personal belongings and clothes, yet every night they are sewing delicately. They don't have that many things to fix!??


message 5: by ☯Emily , The First (new) - rated it 3 stars

☯Emily  Ginder | 1471 comments Mod
Well, if you have very few items, you need to wear them over and over again and things will certainly get worn/torn quickly. There is lots to do in a household that can not afford to live in a throw-away society.


message 6: by Viv (new) - rated it 4 stars

Viv JM | 81 comments Gaskell also seems to be turning her gaze to other instances of moral hypocrisy, like the use of bribery to win elections.

Oddly enough, my local Member of Parliament is called Henry Bellingham!

Interesting comment re the name change, Terry. It would definitely be much more comment worthy these days, especially in someone who was standing for a government position, and with us being so hot on ID papers etc. I had wondered if it was because Mr Bellingham had been shamed by his actions, but I guess not.


Anastasia Kinderman | 701 comments Mod
I am reading but things got a little busy at work so I am behind.


Anastasia Kinderman | 701 comments Mod
Terry wrote: "I really like the book too! Where r all the readers??? It really is shocking how horrible so called "fallen women" were treated and, for the rest of their lives! And their poor children. Having to ..."

Perhaps they were sewing for the poor that Mr. Benson was working with?


Anastasia Kinderman | 701 comments Mod
How did you all feel about the confrontation with Mr. Donne/Mr. Bellingham?

I felt like up to this point in the book it was building up to this confrontation. He really hurt her and got away with no consequences while she had her life completely ruined. Yet he has the audacity to come in, almost like he's entitled, and say, "Marry me!" He brushes off the hurt and how hard he made her life and decides that maybe after all he wants her.

I wish Ruth had stood up to him a little better. His behavior was shameful and I kind of wish she'd reamed into him. This scene fell a little flat for me, I feel like Gaskell made her too 'good'. Did it for anyone else or did you feel like she properly confronted his actions?


message 10: by Viv (new) - rated it 4 stars

Viv JM | 81 comments I understand what you mean, Anastasia, about Gaskell making Ruth too "good". I suppose with the mores of the time, Ruth almost has to be saintly to overcome people's prejudice against "fallen" women.

I think Ruth's reaction to Mr Bellingham's audacity was very dignified. He still doesn't realise the impact of his behaviour, does he?


message 11: by Anastasia Kinderman, The Only (new) - rated it 5 stars

Anastasia Kinderman | 701 comments Mod
Viv wrote: "I understand what you mean, Anastasia, about Gaskell making Ruth too "good". I suppose with the mores of the time, Ruth almost has to be saintly to overcome people's prejudice against "fallen" wome..."

Yes, any perceived defect in character would've allowed them to mentally dismiss her. It's almost like what Stowe did in Uncle Tom's Cabin.

I think I would've liked her to turn him down because she couldn't trust him, not because of religion. Nope, he just wanted to brush it all under the rug and move on.


Terry I wished he would have given her some explanation as to "why" once he was totally well from his illness, he didn't come find her. As soon as he saw her he wanted to be with her again. What happened to his first, arranged marriage? Where were all the good couple counselor's in those days? LOL
Ruth definitely should have stood up to him and gave him some verbal grief! No one else would have known about it, so it wouldn't have hurt her reputation, BUT that was not in Ruth's down trodden personality. She also was very afraid to lose her son to him.
Men in Victorian times had ALL the rights of child custody. ( ie. in the movie Suffragette, the husband keeps the child and throws the wife out on the street)


message 13: by ☯Emily , The First (new) - rated it 3 stars

☯Emily  Ginder | 1471 comments Mod
Terry, you are right about the rights of the husband during Victorian times. This fear of a mother losing parental rights in also explored in The Tenant of Wildfell Hall, which we are reading next month.


message 14: by Anastasia Kinderman, The Only (new) - rated it 5 stars

Anastasia Kinderman | 701 comments Mod
Has anyone else read Uncle Tom's Cabin? The more I reflect on this book the more I see the similarities. I know at one point in this discussion I complained about how 'good' Gaskell made Ruth and Stowe does something similar in Uncle Tom's Cabin. The idea was that people had preconceived notions and by creating these perfect characters they could essentially challenge those notions and force people to face them.

For example, you had plenty of God-fearing people in America who also supported slavery. There was the idea that black people were inferior to white people. There was also the idea that a good Christian helps out other Christians. So what do you do when you have a black Christian who is abused in the name of slavery? You couldn't help but feel sorry for Uncle Tom and he was so good there was no way you could claim to be a Christian and not feel for him and want his circumstances to change.
Gaskell does something similar with Ruth. She is a fallen woman who is repentant and has a strong faith in God. I can see Gaskell asking in the book, "is redemption and forgiveness only for people who have done nothing wrong?"

This does result in more simplified characters in both books. As modern readers we prefer the complexities of modern characters who are shown to be as human as we are, with all the faults. But we could not have arrived where we are today without building on these overly good characters that both authors put forth.

I don't know if this makes sense to anyone else, just some thoughts I was having.


message 15: by ☯Emily , The First (last edited Aug 31, 2016 10:28AM) (new) - rated it 3 stars

☯Emily  Ginder | 1471 comments Mod
I have read Uncle Tom's Cabin several times since it is one of my favorite books. Stowe makes Uncle Tom resemble Jesus Christ-a black man who was willing to die for others, and who tried to do good even to those who abused him. This had to be shocking to those religious people who supported slavery. In a similar manner, Gaskell shows compassion for a young, unmarried woman who tries to forgive herself, just as Jesus Christ showed compassion for the downtrodden, shunned people of his time. Jesus told a woman caught in adultery to "go and sin no more," shocking the religious Pharisees of that time. He ate and socialized with "dregs" of society, and like Jesus, the Bensons, show love and compassion.


message 16: by Anastasia Kinderman, The Only (new) - rated it 5 stars

Anastasia Kinderman | 701 comments Mod
☯Emily wrote: "I have read Uncle Tom's Cabin several times since it is one of my favorite books. Stowe makes Uncle Tom resemble Jesus Christ-a black man who was willing to die for others, and who tried to do good..."

I like the comparison. I definitely noticed that Gaskell made a point of showing the Bensons showing compassion while also not saying that what Ruth did was right. They did not approve of what she did, they simply showed her mercy. Definitely brings to mind the woman in adultery.


Haaze | 57 comments I am pondering why Mr Benson never leaves the premises to go and visit that initial beautiful inn where he seemed to have been a joyful regular? Did he give up his annual walking vacations at the inn after the ordeal with Ruth? We get several time lapses in this section (years pass), but we don't really hear much about the lives of Mr. and Mrs. Benson, i.e. their dreams, goals and activities (they just get older)? I would have liked to have learned more of their point of view. I felt like I didn't learn much about the Bensons in this section. It is almost as if it is a preparation to enter the Bradshaw realm?


Haaze | 57 comments I am having a really hard time with Mr. Donne's new "courting" of Ruth. He reminds me of a small-brained dog pursuing a female. Does he not have any sense at all. Would a person that actually recognized Ruth in this fashion really pursue her into conversation? A person like Bellingham seems to be one that simply would have recognized her but then pretended that nothing happened - status quo. After all, was that not his stance back in Wales? At this point he has probably declined further from a moral perspective and under his mother's influence....
I feel like stepping into the book and have a little "talk" with Mr. Donne at this point. *puts on the boxing gloves* Grrrrrrrr......


message 19: by Haaze (last edited Sep 05, 2016 05:23AM) (new) - rated it 3 stars

Haaze | 57 comments Over the last few days I have really slowed down in "Ruth" as I am literally perishing in Ruth's company. Mr. Donne's manners make me jittery (and angry) as I feel sympathy for the challenges Ruth is experiencing. Page by page I suffer..... (although Gaskell's writing is quite enjoyable).


message 20: by Haaze (last edited Sep 05, 2016 02:08PM) (new) - rated it 3 stars

Haaze | 57 comments Viv wrote: "I'm not sure if I'm the only one reading this, though I see I am a week ahead...I can't really work out why Mr Bellingham is [spoilers removed] "

I suspect that the name issue has to do with the political matters. Perhaps it is an undercover operation to gain votes in the area?


message 21: by Haaze (last edited Sep 06, 2016 01:39AM) (new) - rated it 3 stars

Haaze | 57 comments Anastasia wrote: "I wish Ruth had stood up to him a little better. His behavior was shameful and I kind of wish she'd reamed into him. This scene fell a little flat for me, I feel like Gaskell made her too 'good'. Did it for anyone else or did you feel like she properly confronted his actions? "

@ Anastasia
Ruth is indeed an Angel on earth. Her sheltered life among good people can barely have given her the tools to stand up to a person like Mr. Donne. I suspect that the conflicts in the Benson household were very minor and would be candles compared to the supernova Donne vs. Ruth confrontation. No wonder she perishes emotionally at this point. I am currently making a voodoo doll of Mr. Donne that Ruth can use in the next chapter. ; -)


message 22: by Anastasia Kinderman, The Only (new) - rated it 5 stars

Anastasia Kinderman | 701 comments Mod
Haaze wrote: "Anastasia wrote: "I wish Ruth had stood up to him a little better. His behavior was shameful and I kind of wish she'd reamed into him. This scene fell a little flat for me, I feel like Gaskell made..."

I might need to use that doll myself lol. Just reflecting on his actions in the book still gets me riled up!

I think the mark of a good author is if he or she can draw you in and make you feel what the protagonist is feeling. Sounds like Gaskell really did that for both of us.


Terry Haaze wrote: "Anastasia wrote: "I wish Ruth had stood up to him a little better. His behavior was shameful and I kind of wish she'd reamed into him. This scene fell a little flat for me, I feel like Gaskell made..."

I like the voodoo doll idea. i'll stick a pin in a very special place ; )


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