Glens Falls (NY) Online Book Discussion Group discussion

RE: A God That Could Be Real: Spirituality, Science, and the Future of Our Planet by Nancy Abrams

I discovered this book when I asked a neighbor what he was reading.
Then I read the sample by clicking on the word "Preview" at the book's GR page at:
https://www.goodreads.com/book/show/2...

It sounds fascinating!

That does look interesting, Joy. Thanks. The concept of 'god(s)' or a 'power greater than oneself' is important in 12 step recovery because most addicts have an imbalance between ego & self esteem. For example, many are perfectionists; something they continually fail to achieve, so eventually despair of. That despair leads to depression which often leads to self medication. (There are interesting parallels with religious fundamentalism, too.)

"Let go & let god" is an axiom central to recovery. IOW, we really don't have the power to do anything about most things, so we need to concentrate on those things we do have some minimal control over. Unfortunately, the idea of 'god' in many cultures is wrapped up in old, conflicting myths that aren't very satisfactory for people with a solid education in the sciences. We have powers now that were once only in the realm of the god(s) & we're now a global species, so the tribalism & hate the old religions foster is unsatisfactory as well. Too many have been exposed to diverse ways of thinking that work as well as our own.

More people are becoming atheists, but we're not rational beings. We're 'bags of chemicals that often behave badly' to roughly paraphrase Kurt Vonnegut. There's a big gap between the rationality we aspire to & how we actually do think. Too many hormones & years of evolution make it impossible for us to be truly rational. We're simply rationalizing beings that need something to help us balance our mental books, so spirituality is important. There haven't been many good answers. Maybe this is it or at least a step in the right direction. Again, thanks.

Jim, at least, with books like this, people are finding it easier to be more open about the way they see the concept of God.

Which reminds me of the cartoon about the businessman who is being harassed by a guru on the street. The businessman is shown turning around, looking at the guru, and saying: "I don't even believe in my OWN religion!" LOL

See another good cartoon at:
http://www.condenaststore.com/-sp/I-m...
(God is saying: "I'm starting to prefer the ones who don't believe in me.")

LOL! Makes sense. The inherent problem with systems that are entirely based on belief is they have no logical, rational, or tangible basis to work from. As Robert A. Heinlein said, "One man's religion is another man's belly laugh." Unfortunately, too many take it & themselves too seriously. It's hard to be friendly with someone who says you're damned if you don't believe in the same myths they do.

I guess tolerance of other people's point of view is the answer.

It's fine to be tolerant, but only if others are tolerant, too. That's not the case with religious fundamentalists, especially of monotheistic religions. By definition, their deity has all the answers & only their point of view is the right one. Everyone else must accept or they're going to hell. This means they attempt to push their ideas on everyone else, even when they're proven wrong. These must be rejected.

For instance, Ken Hamm's 'Creation Museum' or 'Ark Park' deserve nothing but ridicule. Those morons are brainwashing children with the idea that the earth is only 6000 years old, dinosaurs coexisted with man, & unicorns were real. Not to mention that an act of genocide is worthy of celebration & amusement. Attitudes like this are what lead to human rights violations, such as the murder of homosexuals, & that can't be allowed either.

So, no, I don't believe we need to be tolerant of points of view that are intolerant or ignorant when they push it into public. These people should be publicly ridiculed. If someone wants to believe - in private - that a bunch of Iron Age desert dwellers who thought the earth was flat had some sort of holy revelation, that's fine. Pushing those attitudes & idiocies on others is not.

Religion needs to have its sacred cow status removed. Look at all the problems European countries are having with immigrants who say their religious laws trump the secular laws of the countries that took them in. It's fracturing their societies. The current wave of terrorism is done in the name of religion. One more monotheistic religion that's well known for its members killing each other over differences in doctrine. That would be laughable if it wasn't so sad.

It's in times like these that it makes me want to report a "feeling good" about something that has happened in our area. There is a high school next to our Catholic church(the church building is one hundred and fifty years old but has not much to do with what I am talking about.) The school is known as Christo Rey and this institution was started in Chicago by the Jesuits. What it consists of is children from poverty can go to this school if they qualify and they then agree to work one day a week at a given business in Kansas City and for that work they are paid their tuition for the year. The must also dress the part of working at a business establishment. The statistics say 100 per cent of the graduates go on to college. There is a waiting list. Also, what I am actually reporting is that a local Presbyterian church has decided as their annual charity contribution will be to donate book bags to these four hundred students at this high school. I find that gratifying in more ways than one/it is definitely ecumenical and also isn't it time to work out charity at "home" rather than always going off to Central America etc.? Not that those people don't need help also. Oh well, hope you get some pleasure from reading about the fact that good people are still out there. W, of course, know this but doesn't hurt to be reminded.

Jim wrote: "It's fine to be tolerant, but only if others are tolerant, too. That's not the case with religious fundamentalists, especially of monotheistic religions. ... Attitudes like this are what lead to human rights violations...that can't be allowed ..."

Jim, I see your point. How can we prevent the human rights violations without interfering with people's religious freedom? It's a conundrum. It's like a "Catch-22".

It's a problem for which there doesn't seem to be a solution.

I see your point when you say: "These people should be publicly ridiculed." Comedians like Bill Maher and George Carlin have done this in the past with great effect.

Nina wrote: "It's in times like these that it makes me want to report a "feeling good" about something that has happened in our area. There is a high school next to our Catholic church(the church building is on..."

Nina, that IS a "feel-good" post. It reminds us of the good works that churches do to help the unfortunate. Whether we believe the dogmas and doctrines of the respective churches or not, we can't deny that they can be (and have been) a force for good.

ADDENDUM: MY POST #8 ABOVE
“No God and no religion can survive ridicule. No political church, no nobility, no royalty or other fraud, can face ridicule in a fair field, and live.” -Mark Twain