Flights of Fantasy discussion

Our YA/MG selection for September 2016 is Harry Potter and the Cursed Child - Parts One and Two by J.K. Rowling and others. Picked by me for my annual mod (birthday) pick.

Disclaimer: My birthday is actually in October, but Becky and I switched months so she could pick a horror for Halloween.

Please remember to mark any spoilers by using the spoiler tag -- type < spoiler> your spoiler here < /spoiler>, without the spaces. Posts containing unmarked spoilers may be deleted.

I'm putting this thread up a little early since we have several members that have already been reading and discussing.

Copied from Reading thread:

Aug 18, 2016 06:49AM

I started Harry Potter and the Cursed Child - Parts One and Two this morning.

About 50 pages in: (view spoiler)[I'm trying to sympathize with Albus. I am. I mean, I am the child who doesn't relate well with my parents. Who my parents don't understand and I know they wish I was different... more like them.

But that doesn't change the fact at one point when I was reading it I was like, "Wow, and I thought Harry was a brat in OotP... "

I think maybe it just needed to be developed more - show us more about how they don't really relate to each other, aside from Albus being all put out at being "Harry Potter's son" (though I get how that could be annoying). (hide spoiler)]

***

Aug 18, 2016 08:07AM

I sort of agree, Jackie. But (view spoiler)[I think it's not as much an issue for James because him and Harry are more similar - or at least they seem to be. Even Harry says he wishes Albus was more like James and Lily, because he understands them. (And that line had me fucking confused for a second, 'cause I was thinking he was wishing Albus was more like his mom and dad. These fucking names, man.) (hide spoiler)]

***

Aug 19, 2016

Also, what is up with (view spoiler)[McGonagall being headmistress and Hermione being Minister for Magic?

Rowling said in the past that McGonagall didn't stay headmistress after the battle because she was getting old, and Kingsley Shacklebolt is meant to be Minister for Magic!

If this book is meant to be canon, the least it could do is follow the stuff Rowling's already established! *grumble grumble* (hide spoiler)]

From Reading Thread in response to Colleen's comments:

August 18th:

Regarding your spoiler:
(view spoiler)[ I didn't quite get this though. Albus's feelings seem to stem more from the legacy of his name than anything else. James, being the first of HP's son, you would think he would have more pressure on him, but they seem to get along just fine. Plus, James seems more well adjusted. I agree that Albus comes off as a brat right from the start and it made it hard for me to sympathize with him. (hide spoiler)]

*******
August 19th
Anyway, (view spoiler)[ I totally agree as I read the same thing too about McGonagall not staying headmistress. I believe that I had read Hermione was heading the Magical Creatures department or something along those lines, which made sense after finishing the series. It fit in with her character. Hermione as Minister for Magic didn't make sense to me. She's smart, but she didn't seem the type to want to be in charge like that.

The whole thing about not following Rowling's already established world is what annoyed me the most about this book. It frustrated me and pissed me off every time the characters would come into Hogwart's using floo powder!!! NO, JUST NO! How many times Hermione repeated the rules during the original series and now they're just coming in as they please?

To me the whole play just seems very inconsistent to the world Rowling established and that's why I had such a hard time with it. If this were fan fiction, I could let it pass. I would still think it's bad, but it would get a pass but to call this the 8th HP book is just a travesty, IMO. (view spoiler)[ (hide spoiler)] (hide spoiler)]

Aug 19th, con't from Reading thread:

Yes! The (view spoiler)[floo powder thing annoyed me too, especially since when it happened in the original series it was very specifically mentioned to be a special one-time only thing.

(OF course, there's also the inconsistency that Sirius could floo his head into the Gryffindor fire... ) (hide spoiler)]

Other characters:

(view spoiler)[1) This was clearly written by people on the "Snape is teh greatest" wagon.

2) I liked the sort of distant but respectful relationship we got of Draco and Harry on the platform as opposed to this, "I'm still kinda a prat" Draco.

Though this might get better. 1 1/2 acts to go... (hide spoiler)]

So. I'm not reading this one but I read a couple of interesting reviews of it on a feminist fiction blog I follow:


(There will be spoilers here, btw)

Harry Potter and the Cursed Child NEEDS a simulcast
http://feministfiction.com/2016/07/25...

Harry Potter and the Cursed Child Review
http://feministfiction.com/2016/08/01...

I skimmed those, because I didn't want to read too many spoilers...

But, like, I can get how this would be an amazing piece of stagecraft. The descriptions of the scene changes and visuals and magic and stuff - as an actor, I can just imagine what's involved and how cool it would look.

And I'm often more forgiving of movies and shows than I am of books. Maybe it's because when you read and when you watch something, I think you use different parts of your brain. (I'm pretty sure I read that somewhere once.)

And if this was just a regular story, then that'd be cool.

But as a piece of Harry Potter canon?

There are just some things that are so fan-fictiony...

I mean... I hate to say it... but I might be 1-starring this bad boy.

Me. 1-starring anything Harry Potter related.

I mean.

Fuck.

(Hell, I might have to go 2-stars just to save my sanity.)

lol

I feel you. I've read some great plays that don't really stand as printed works.

But I'm sad you aren't enjoying your read. Time for a palate cleanser.

MrsJoseph wrote: "lol

I feel you. I've read some great plays that don't really stand as printed works."


I know we discussed this a little bit before... You had mentioned some people were saying that plays aren't meant to be read, and I actually agree with that. It's one reason I was a bit hesitant to read this, because plays aren't meant to be read, they're meant to be experienced... and reading it is just never going to be the same thing.

Reading Shakespeare sucks (I think). But seeing a good performance? Totally different thing.

I do appreciate the stage notes, though, because it does help me visualize the scene - at least somewhat. I was worried it was going to be pure dialogue. o_O

colleen the fabulous fabulaphile wrote: "I skimmed those, because I didn't want to read too many spoilers...

But, like, I can get how this would be an amazing piece of stagecraft. The descriptions of the scene changes and visuals and mag..."

I went with two stars because I was still processing when I rated it and I was shocked at how I felt about it. But, honestly, the more I think about it the more I feel like it deserves one star.

I get your point about seeing v.s reading a play and that was part of my struggle with it too. However, I had issues with the plot itself and I think if I see the play I would still have problems with it. I won't go into it because you haven't finished, but I do look forward to see what you think of it once you're done.

Jackie wrote: "However, I had issues with the plot itself and I think if I see the play I would still have problems with it. "

Oh, yeah. There are issues, no doubt about that. I just think people are less focused on that when seeing it instead of reading it.

And done.

So, um... How in the actual fuck was (view spoiler)[Bellatrix pregnant before the Battle of Hogwarts? (hide spoiler)]

Seriously, what blackmail must they have on Rowling to get her seal of approval on this as canon?

Whatevs. I refuse to accept it as canon. And you can't make me. So there.

colleen the fabulous fabulaphile wrote: "And done.

So, um... How in the actual fuck was [spoilers removed]

Seriously, what blackmail must they have on Rowling to get her seal of approval on this as canon?

Whatevs. I refuse to accept it..."


And BOOOOM....the huge issue I had with the plot.

Doesn't make any effin' sense! I can't accept that Rowling endorsed this and I don't accept it as the 8th. She should've left the story as is and just focus on Pottermore stuff or a new series.

How about i can't even begin to accept that (view spoiler)[Voldie would have sex with anybody?! (hide spoiler)]

And speaking of "Canon? What canon?", how about when Albus is like (view spoiler)["Why dont i steal some ingredients and whip up some polyjuice potion? I'm really good at making it."

First off, no, cause you're a fucking third year... and you are no Hermione academically. (Actually, wasnt it a restricted potion or something? And no parental reaction?)

But more importantly, little mr. potion master, it takes, like, a month to brew... And the fact this isn't the first fucking thing Hermione said is like... What? (hide spoiler)]

colleen the fabulous fabulaphile wrote: "How about i can't even begin to accept that [spoilers removed]

And speaking of "Canon? What canon?", how about when Albus is like [spoilers removed]

(view spoiler)[ Yeah, that straight up made me shudder. I don't buy it.

Your spoiler regarding Albus- that goes back to the inconsistency issues I mentioned earlier. (hide spoiler)]

Here's some other inconsistencies that I was reading in someone else's thread:

(view spoiler)[1) It was said by Rowling that Harry lost the ability to speak Parseltongue when the piece of Voldemort inside of him was killed - since that's the only reason he could do it in the first place. So it doesn't make sense that he regains that ability just because Delphi is around - or it should have never left.

2) How did they turn into Harry and Hermione to search Hermione's office? Even aside from randomly having a convenient batch of polyjuice around - what items did they have of the people they were changing into?

3) When Albus and Scorpius are at the time of Harry's parent's death, they see Lily come out of the house with a baby Harry in a pram.

Except Lily was in fucking HIDING under the Fidelius Charm, and they wouldn't be making a casual jaunt all out in the open like that.

Hell - they shouldn't have even been able to see the house, even if they knew where it was (which is didn't seem like they did), because of said charm. (hide spoiler)]

As to family: (view spoiler)[I have a hard time believing and Potter and Weasley clans would ostracize Albus so much, and a harder time believing Harry - with his past and upbringing - would allow it. (Of course, this "Harry" also says he never had any father figure role models, even though he had tons of them... )

But are we meant to believe that the Potter-Granger-Weasley's would completely abandon Albus because he was sorted into Slytherin? That Hagrid wouldn't befriend the two boys and accept them regardless?

That McGonagall wouldn't have worked to get rid of some of the suspicion towards Slytherin? According to Rowling, when Slughorn came back to the Battle with reinforcements, this included some Slytherin students (though I wish that was made clearer in the books).

And then there's Slughorn, himself, and we know that Harry made sure everyone knew about Snape's role.

So I'm irked that Slytherin house is still this pariah dog. I mean, yeah, I get that ages of prejudice and suspicion aren't going to be automatically erased, but I don't believe that James, even after teasing Albus, would essentially disown Albus for being Slytherin. (hide spoiler)]

Jer said, upon finishing this, that it read like it was written by someone who watched the movies (but was playing on their phones and so missed important stuff) but hadn't read the books.

I recalled having the same thought (view spoiler)[when we're in the Final Task and the hedges tried to eat them. Iirc, the moving hedges that was entirely a product of the movie. In the books the tasks were the creatures and stuff, and not the hedges trying to eat them. (hide spoiler)]

colleen the fabulous fabulaphile wrote: "Jer said, upon finishing this, that it read like it was written by someone who watched the movies (but was playing on their phones and so missed important stuff) but hadn't read the books.

I recal..."


Ha! That's actually a pretty damn good description. I think that's why if I were to see the play I would still be disappointed. I get that each medium is it's own entity, but the rules of the world should still apply no matter what.

colleen the fabulous fabulaphile wrote: "Oh, yeah. There are issues, no doubt about that. I just think people are less focused on that when seeing it instead of reading it.."

Us Aristolean purists hold by the master, and that a play that depends on spectacle to pull it off is a bad play.

colleen the fabulous fabulaphile wrote: "How about i can't even begin to accept that [spoilers removed]
"

I could accept that. IF -- some reason were provided. There is nothing Voldemort would not do if there were sufficient in it for him. But there would have to be sufficient, and I can imagine a dozen reasons, each worse than the last (view spoiler)[it was easier to seduce something from a woman than just to charm it from her; he was putting his ability to resist a magical charm by seducing a woman who used it instead of her him -- both of which would be plausible only early in his career -- or he wanted to use her in a spell as he used his father's bones, or even that he wanted to manipulate a minion, though given the way he treated the Malfoys that's less likely (hide spoiler)] -- but there would have to be some reason.

The other possibility is that she was lied to, that (view spoiler)[she was descended from Slytherin some other way to account for the Parseltongue, perhaps a Muggleborn child descending from a Squib (hide spoiler)] but that would need at least to be hinted at.

Also, what on earth were Albus and Scorpius doing in Slytherin? Both of them seemed to me to be Hufflepuff to the core.

I can sort of buy Albus (view spoiler)[in Slytherin. He makes me think of the line the sorting hat said to Harry, actually, about having a thirst to prove himself. (hide spoiler)]

I agree that Scorpius seems more (view spoiler)[Hufflepuff material. (hide spoiler)]

colleen the fabulous fabulaphile wrote: "I can sort of buy Albus [spoilers removed]"

yes, there's an element of that. Also, there's the element that while Harry let the problems come to him, Albus proactively set out to fix one -- ambitious there.

But the fundamental problem is -- and here comes one of my favorite rants -- that the Houses just aren't well world-built. The House Evil trope can work in comic children's tales (I recommend Castle Hangnail as an excellent example of it) but it doesn't really work in serious discussion of good and evil. Seguing between the two tropes would require an absolute genius. Especially given that it would have to be slithered into the gaps in the story. But "ambition" could be shifted slightly to "dedication" or "zeal" or even "self-mastery" -- like the Olympic theory of striving for the highest, which would also expose the wizards to the temptations of evil.

No one else has read this to comment on it?

Boo-hiss!

I'm going to be starting it soonish!

I'm only halfway through, so I've only read half this thread so far, but here are my thoughts.

I don't mind the format as much as I worried I would. I haven't had any issues with turning the stage notes and dialogue into a little play in my head. Do I wish it were written in a traditional format? Sure. Does the play format ruin it though? Not at all.

Albus - complete agreement. (view spoiler)[ I am having a lot of trouble understanding / believing his motivation behind being such a little prat. (hide spoiler)]

Draco / Harry - agree here as well. (view spoiler)[ I like the Draco / Harry relationship so far, like seeing that they can associate as adults. I also like the Scorpious / Albus relationship. Imagine Draco and Harry's sons being best friends! Nice change. (hide spoiler)]

As for the inconsistencies... They are driving me nuts as well. The floo thing just seems lazy, and (view spoiler)[ while I admit that I didn't remember McGonagall wasn't supposed to continue as headmistress, Hermione as Minister for Magic was just plain annoying. (hide spoiler)]

Other than that.. I am interested in seeing where the whole (view spoiler)[ time traveling plot goes. So far they went back and didn't bring Cedric back, and now Rose doesn't exist and Albus is in Gryffindor . (hide spoiler)]. I'm a little worried though, as it seems like the second half of comments in this thread aren't very positive. Right now I'm at about 3 stars. We'll see where it goes from there!

Finished. 1 star. It just wasn't very good, overall it felt like subpar fanfic.

I especially hated (view spoiler)[when they are in Godric's Hollow and see Lily walking Harry. Like Colleen said, they are in hiding... she wouldn't be out walking and they wouldn't be able to see the house. So stupid. (hide spoiler)]

Yay! More hate!

I started reading this on Friday. I haven't read the conversation here so as not to come across any spoilers.

Here was my initial reaction (taken from the Harry Potter thread):

Not realizing that there were going to be multiple editions, I just purchased Harry Potter and the Cursed Child, Parts 1 & 2, the Special Rehearsal Edition Script, a few days ago. I started reading it yesterday and am now about a third or so of the way into Part 1- Act 2.

I have to admit that it is currently depressing the hell out of me. Young Potter is getting on my nerves, and I can't believe Hermione was duped by something with which she should be more than familiar.

The story certainly does have my attention; I just have to read it in small doses.

Shortly after that, I decided to put the book on the back burner; 100 pages was enough.

Albus gets on my last nerve! Harry seems like shell of his former self, as does Hermione, and Ron seems to be just completely clueless. Its practically soul sucking!

I am currently reading the 3 short story collections, originally posted at Pottermore, that are now available via Amazon. They are so much better than this, and have helped to lift my spirits.

I'm hoping that I can make myself finish the play over Christmas break, just to say that I did, at the very least. My biggest hope, however, is that the story gets better.

What do you mean by multiple editions? I thought it was the Special Rehearsal and Kindle editions, which are actually the same thing in different format from my understanding.

Anyway, I don't think it matters which one you read...the material is the same and it's all bad. :P

My understanding is that there are or were plans for a definitive version, as opposed to the rehearsal version. I do not know if that is still the case.

Started this last night because it was looking at me from the table beside my reading chair. I picked this to read back in September, and then never got to join in.

Liking it so far, and got through Act 1.

Finished! Review

I don't know. I rather enjoyed it. ***1/2 stars.

I love the honesty of your review. I'm glad you were able to enjoy the story.
Maybe I picked it up at the wrong time for me, but I do plan to give it another go at another time. I'm just not sure when.
I feel myself gearing up to finally reread the Potter series, but I want to hold off until GR gets its act together in that respect.
I also want to make sure that I give all of the books the attention they deserve. It really is one of my favorite series.

Thanks, Nyssa. It might have actually helped me that it's been a few years since my last reading of the main series. If they had been more fresh in my mind, I might have been more critical of this.

Yep. I was right. I went back and read all the spoiler comments. I missed a lot of those inconsistencies because it's been awhile.

Chris wrote: "Thanks, Nyssa. It might have actually helped me that it's been a few years since my last reading of the main series. If they had been more fresh in my mind, I might have been more critical of this."

I haven't read the series since my first time through when they were originally released. I'm sure I've forgotten a lot, but there were just some things that stayed with me.