Fantasy Book Club discussion

September will be here in just a few short days.
Who will be reading The Darkness That Comes Before by R. Scott Bakker?

I'm in!

I will but I'll be starting a bit late.

I'm in, but also starting later.

I'm in as soon as I finish Wheel of the Infinite.

I read it a couple times already.

Join in on the commentary, if you like, Robert. You don't necessarily have to read again.
: )

I'm in as soon as I finish A storm of swords!

Brenda ╰☆╮ wrote: "Join in on the commentary, if you like, Robert. You don't necessarily have to read again.
: )"

Sure, sounds fun. Just two questions

1) When's it start and

2) Are spoilers an issue?

I'll start it as soon as I finish Memories of Ice

Robert wrote: "Brenda ╰☆╮ wrote: "Join in on the commentary, if you like, Robert. You don't necessarily have to read again.
: )"

Sure, sounds fun. Just two questions

1) When's it start and

2) Are spoilers an ..."

This thread you can now discuss your initial impresstions without spoilers. I will set the spoiler thread up later today. I suggest hiding your spoilers in that thread, though. It used to be a thread for when finished, but it is easier to comment while fresh in your mind.


Well...for those who havent finished.
; )

Okay. First off: I loved the opening, but that may be a matter of personal taste: I love worldbuilding-intensive books, and I love it when the reader is tossed headfirst into the raging maelstrom from page one and is left scrambling for touchstones and guides: characters, details, to get a handle on what's going on.

I like those kinds of openings because they're so easy to get wrong and so tough to get right, but when they work, they work beautifully. The keys are to give us characters that we care about and a situation that's intriguing, and Darkness gets them both right.

The opening also sets up the central conflict and theme for the series: humanity's brutality to each other in an even more brutal world, and the hope at the end that a better way can be found...but at what cost?

I'm in mid-month.

Also, I don't know how familiar many people are with the Crusades in terms of the grand movements and all the politics surrounding it, but as I learned more about the real wars later I found Bakker's incorporation of those historical events into his fantasy world truly compelling it it's artistry. It's an alternate world, fantasy retelling.

The Crusade plot is in retrospect foundational to why I loved the first trilogy, and it's lack is why I could never get into Bakker's second trilogy.

Robert wrote: "Also, I don't know how familiar many people are with the Crusades in terms of the grand movements and all the politics surrounding it, but as I learned more about the real wars later I found Bakker..."

I'm not reading along this time, but your comments are enticing.
They are much appreciated, Robert!

I'm in a little later this month

A couple of other observations, and I don't know that they'd count as spoilers, so I'll coach them as generalities:

What struck me as well is how cleverly Bakker incorporates classic pulp fantasy and even sci fi tropes, characters and imagery in this story, all the while keeping things organic and grounded in this realistic medieval world. There are all these little 'wait a minute-' moments when you realize this character or that situation is actually a play on a classic trope. But of course, none of the characters would notice, but a reader on the outside feels that Bakker is winking at you and letting you in on the joke. It's a whole added level of fun.

Starting this book from today.

I am already 24% for this book and simply loving it so far, the way Bakker is shifting different pov characters and giving us a unique perspective of his world is simply fascinating.

Also he has introduced to us simple awesome characters namely that of
1.Achamian
2.Xerves
3.Cnaiür

Half way through and, I'm enjoying it so far. The way Bakker unwraps the story and delivers the different hints of it's world and magic behind it is smooth and I really like it.
I must say that I'm struggling with the names of everything. It seems to me that there is no need to give to all the different social groups, nations, factions, etc..., that appear in the story five or six different names which, by the way are completely difficult to remember.
Other than that, I'm getting a very nice time reading it.

I'm about a third of the way through. I started part 2 on the plane the other day. I'm enjoying it, but I'm finding it boring occasionally. I agree with Javier's annoyance with how many names there are for everything. I'm doing okay with the names, as in they aren't confusing me, but I wouldn't be able to remember most of them if you asked.

Regarding the alien names and terms, the biggest hassle I had while re-reading the first trilogy was that the third volume, The Thousandfold Thought, had a glossary of literally 100 pages covering the entire trilogy, and the world is so detailed that every page is needed.

I had to keep a copy of TTT handy and reference every unfamiliar term, and the world is so rich that each term brought up at least TWO OTHER intriguing terms or historical events, which I then had to look up.

Bakker needs to make his hundred-page glossary available as a separate kindle document. Otherwise, grab a copy of Thousandfold Thought if you need a guide.

Also, for a series with such a reputation from grim nihilism and human brutality, I've found that Bakker is astonishingly sympathetic to the human condition. He'd have to be, to get readers to care so much about the actors and victims in this drama.

In for a re-read (it's been probably five years since I last visited), but like Lioth I won't be able to start until I finish MoI. :)

Started it today.

Javier wrote: "Half way through and, I'm enjoying it so far. The way Bakker unwraps the story and delivers the different hints of it's world and magic behind it is smooth and I really like it.
I must say that I'..."

I agree Javier. The names are ridicules. This book is starting to remind me of Gardens of the Moon. I am enjoying it though but I can see why some people hate it and some people love it and it only got a 3.77 total stars. Anyway, may see if I can find that glossary that Robert is talking about.

Tnkw01 wrote: "Javier wrote: "Half way through and, I'm enjoying it so far. The way Bakker unwraps the story and delivers the different hints of it's world and magic behind it is smooth and I really like it.
I m..."

End of The Thousandfold Thought. One. Hundred. Freaking. Pages.

Ok Robert, I followed your advise and I have a copy at hand of number 3 in the series with its veeery large glosary. I should say that it helps, so thanks for that. It even clarifies some concepts about the politics and geopolitics of the story.
On the not so good side of it I should say that you could find some spoilers at it. As it was my case when reading about Carcellus... So, read carefully!

Javier wrote: "Ok Robert, I followed your advise and I have a copy at hand of number 3 in the series with its veeery large glosary. I should say that it helps, so thanks for that. It even clarifies some concepts ..."

Sorry. I forgot. Like I said, I kept it on hand for the re-read.

Don't worry it was the only one spoiler i've got. Now I just read a bit more carefully. This is just for the sake of warning others!!

Tnkw01 wrote: "Javier wrote: "Half way through and, I'm enjoying it so far. The way Bakker unwraps the story and delivers the different hints of it's world and magic behind it is smooth and I really like it.
I m..."

I havn't read any of the Malazan's books, but I always wondered about that same thing. It probably has to do with How Goodreads calculates the rating. I'm inclined to believe that it is just a plain mean value over the total amount of ratings... That's not a very precise value on how good a book is.

I am half done with the book and a clear picture has started emerging as to different factions involved in the struggle for holy war.

The character is Achamian is definitely interesting he looks like a washed up spy who stays in the trade for the heck of it.

The names are definitely ridiculous.

I've finished it, and have to say that the second half is much better than the first. It gets more to the point, Its by far less slow-paced than the first half, more characters and more interesting ones appear.

Athough I cant help feeling that the whole book is something more like a huge introduction, I suppose to what comes in #2 and #3.

I finally started. The prologue was tough to read and very scattered in parts. I found a re-read to make sure I wasn't missing any main points for later. The author of the re-read had some interesting points.

http://rereid.blogspot.com/2012/06/re...

80% done with the book, I think the book slowed down a bit in the middle, but when Kellhus & Cnauir along with Serwe reach their destination things have got interesting.

Also I think I have made connection regarding the dreams which Achamian has and which Kellhus claims he has had. (view spoiler)[The mandate is Kellhus father (hide spoiler)].

I've been dealing with a daughter's wedding so I'm just now getting back into reading. On chapter 7 and it's still a little slow and the names of everything are driving me crazy.

I'm through the 5th chapter. This has been a slog for me so far. It really should be right up my alley but so far between his writing style and trying to figure out who is who (and I never had this problem even with Malazan) I'm finding it hard to care.

Worst part this was my nomination. :(

Scott wrote: "I'm through the 5th chapter. This has been a slog for me so far. It really should be right up my alley but so far between his writing style and trying to figure out who is who (and I never had this..."

Same with me, it seems I have run out of steam reading this book, it started strongly for me but from middle I have become more n more disinterested.

Scott wrote: "I'm through the 5th chapter. This has been a slog for me so far. It really should be right up my alley but so far between his writing style and trying to figure out who is who (and I never had this..."

I believe this is one of those books that would be more clear on a re-read. I, however, don't believe I'll do a re-read nor will I continue the series. It's really hard for me to not continue a book I paid for. I should have checked this one out at the library. Then I wouldn't feel so guilty to put it in the DNF file.

Tnkw01 wrote: "I believe this is one of those books that would be more clear on a re-read. I, however, don't believe I'll do a re-read nor will I continue the series. It's really hard for me to not continue a book I paid for. I should have checked this one out at the library. Then I wouldn't feel so guilty to put it in the DNF file. "

I officially DNF'd. Review below. Honestly this series should have been right in my wheelhouse and I'm shocked I didn't love it. I bought this one on Kindle and returned it with no damage done. I did however, thinking I would read the entire series, buy books two and three in hardcover. If anybody is interested they are in excellent condition and I'd sell them including shipping for $8 USD in the states or $9 to Canada.


https://www.goodreads.com/review/show...

I managed to finish The Mirror Empire and this book is 10x better, so I believe I can make it. :)

Tnkw01 wrote: "I managed to finish The Mirror Empire and this book is 10x better, so I believe I can make it. :)"

Funny I went and check all my friends reviews for TME and a lot of the people I consider to be the tougher graders gave it higher scores. You just never know.