You'll love this one...!! A book club & more discussion

This is the buddy read thread for Longitude: The True Story of a Lone Genius Who Solved the Greatest Scientific Problem of His Time. The plan is to read this in September, but we don't have a firm start date yet. Does Sept. 10th work for everyone who is interested?

Casceil, thank you for setting up this thread. Sept 10 is fine for me.
Joan

Sept 10 is fine. Sept 17 also okay. I own a copy so i don't have to juggle dates based on library availability this time : )

Let's go with Sept. 10 then. I still need to pick up a copy, but if I don't find one at the used book stores, I can just buy it for Kindle.

I remember being surprised how readable this was when i read it first about 10 years ago. I've got my calendar marked : )

I'd love to join you too... a 10th September start is fine with me. I have it on e-book

Great. The more, the merrier.

I've started reading, but have not yet gotten very far. I like the way the book starts with the author reminiscing about her childhood, and how she learned about longitude and latitude. It's a clever way to explain the concepts without treating the readers like dummies.

I loved this book when I read it years ago. I thought Sobel did a great job explaining the science in a way that worked for non-scientists. Also loved her book on Galileo.

I'll be starting tonight. I also loved Galileo's Daughter: A Historical Memoir of Science, Faith and Love by the same author.

Wow the writing style is a big shift from the Stephen King book that I just finished, much more soothing and relaxing.

I like the writing style. I'm learning a lot, but it's not like reading a textbook. It's more like someone telling me stories of events from the past. I was really interested in the part where the book discussed how they figured out the speed of light.

I am not that far yet but I found the one hour and 15 degrees of longitude interesting and her explanation makes it memorable.

I have always been fascinated by the brave explorers who ventured beyond the known world, no maps or reliable navigation equipment - yikes!

is my hero.

I started reading today and am interested in the competition element of the discoveries. So much status tied up in finding the best option.

Also, I was unhappy about the wounded dog theory described and found it unclear how much this may have actually been tested.

I was appalled by the wounded dog theory. I certainly hope it wasn't tested very much.

HAPPILY, there is no evidence the wounded dogs/powder of sympathy were ever used according to science writer Tom Logsdon. According to Wikipedia the anonymous pamphlet proposing it might have been a joke.

It's amazing to me that most sailors did not know how to swim. If you are in rough seas of course it doesn't matter but many lives were lost in shallow waters because of this.

I'm starting tonight. This weekend turned out to be very busy. Looking forward to some reading time now.

Tejas Janet wrote: "I'm starting tonight. This weekend turned out to be very busy..."

Same here. May get to start at lunchtime

I've reached the half-way point. Parts of this book are really interesting, but other parts, not so much. I got a bit annoyed with Harrison's perfectionism. He should have let them test one of his clocks on a trans-Atlantic voyage much sooner, rather than trying to make it perfect first.

The Equation of Time- what a beautiful, evocative phrase

This is the copy I have - The Illustrated Longitude: The True Story of a Lone Genius Who Solved the Greatest Scientific Problem of His Time. The one i read previously wasn't illustrated, but I liked the book so much that when i came across this version I couldn't resist buying it. This is my first time reading this edition (I admit somewhat sheepishly since I bought it probably 4 or 5 years ago). Any way, I'm really liking it. The illustrations are interesting and add nicely to the book.

I'm reading a kindle version without illustrations. I suspect illustrations would add a lot.

Illustrations?? Oh.. I need to get hold of a printed version too.

Casceil wrote: "... I got a bit annoyed with Harrison's perfectionism. He should have let them test one of his of his clocks on a trans-Atlantic voyage much sooner, rather than trying to make it perfect first..."

I felt frustrated too. But if he hadn't been such a perfectionist, he would never have produced the work he did. It was in his nature.
I'm more annoyed at the smug self-importance of the 'scientific establishment'. It seems to me that anyone who was practically minded and needed to solve the problem (Captains of ships, watchmakers etc) could see the value of the solution. Those who had something to gain by promoting a theory (to show how clever / superior they were) set themselves against the (in their eyes) 'inferior' solution.

I find it frustrating that those who considered themselves 'superior' were left with so much influence... there's a distinct lack of balance .. but (methinks) it was ever thus.

I think the ideal would be to recognise the obvious potential in Harrison's work and insist it be tested. They had the power to do this, as we find out later in the book.

What do you think?

I was just wishing I had an illustrated veraion too. next trip to England I hope to get to Greenwich.
I think Harrison was so focused on the intellectual challenge that he forgot that lives could be lost to his perfectionism. Whether or not that focus was key to his success is debatable.

I've had a paperback version for many years. It isn't illustrated either. I suspect that was a special edition of the book.

It is a good example of something that seems to happen over and over--tension between academics/intellectuals with strong opinions about how something should be done, or what is an"elegant" approach, and more practical people who focus on what works, even if it doesn't work perfectly. I agree with Joan that the concern should have been more for the sailors whose lives were at stake, rather than on the prize.

I think sometimes it takes an outsider to think outside the box maybe.

Also, I agree with Annerlee that Harrison's perfectionism was no doubt fundamental to his being and his work. Unfortunately, this also meant lives were compromised that needn't have been.

I haven't had a chance to get past chapter 4 or 5 due to a library due date on another book and work, sigh. However, I kept thinking that it was too bad they didn't use some of the Mayan astrological records, as they were amazingly accurate.

eek! Actually, I meant he seems like the kind of person who is driven by an intellectual challenge more than the idea of serving society. I actually think that sort of basic research/experimentation is important. Of course research that saves lives is important, but just noodling around figuring stuff out can lead to some big discoveries too.

How would you respond to aggression such as Harrison suffered at the hands of Maskelyn?

Harrison seems to fight by refusing to cooperate; not much sign of him using charm to win adherents.

I was a research technician, then an instructor at a research university and in a few departments the faculty frequently bullied each other. They also spent time forging alliances for power.
I was just glad to be beneath anyone's notice.
Surprisingly, the science education and medicine departments had the worst reputations- you'd think they would be nicest.

I finished the book last night. I'm glad I read it, but I found myself very glad to finish it. The second half of the book seemed to be an endless tale of how badly treated Harrison was. I don't know what I would have done in his place. The deck seemed so heavily stacked against him.

Hmm, I've just reached the halfway point. I can see he needed some guidance on how to position himself, as he was his own worst enemy in promoting his accomplishments. There was some warning about how it took 40 years for him to be recognized since he wasn't an astronomer. This seems to be typical--those who go against the accepted thought at the time, regardless of evidence, are invariably attacked and ridiculed. Usually it takes many years before the value of their contribution is recognized.

Lara, good point. Two of my heroes in science proved that intestinal ulcers are not caused by stress (its an infection) but they did not win their Nobel Prize for about 30 years and many docs still believe it's stress.

I've just completed Chapter Seven, "Cogmaker's Journal." This is my favorite chapter so far. I love reading about Harrison's earliest clocks. How on earth did he ever become so naturally accomplished at designing and building clocks?? Amazing how he figured out to use differing kinds of wood and metals in the best way for the various clock parts. I was wondering though why brass was his choice "wherever he needed metal." Anyone know or care to speculate about the reason?

I finished the book earlier today and overall I got the feeling the Harrison was a genius. And I think it helped that he was not trained in the "way things were done." He probably only took on the challenge because it was interesting, not because of the money. Otherwise, he could have won with one of his early models and then used the money he won to work on improvements over time. Instead he pushed it off until he felt it was pretty much perfect.

Janet, I looked up brass in Wikipedia, and apparently as an alloy it is not magnetic, is good to use in places where fire would be a problem, and is corrosion-resistant against sea water if made with the right metals. My understanding has been that brass has been used on sailing ships for a long time, probably because of many of those properties.

Thank you, Lara. You spurred me to read a bit myself.

I wonder if Harrison considered bronze but rejected it? It's also a non-magnetic copper alloy, like brass, but contains tin instead of the more corrosive but less expensive zinc. Hmm. Wish we could interview him : )

I know, there is so much that we don't know about him and his decisions. However, I wonder how open he would be about his choices, given his fear of having his ideas stolen.

I don't know about bronze vs brass but I overheard a discussion about metal screws for cabinetry on ships and apparently bronze or steel with high molybdenum are used because they resist corrosion but they are expensive. I was told brass is too weak for screws.

I came across a report by the University of Freiburg, which examines the effect this book had in reviving the 'Harrison story'. As a result of the book...

In 2006, John Harrison received a public memorial
in Westminster Abbey, which was unveiled by Prince Philip. As it turns out, Harrison is enjoying a stellar career centuries
after his death: He developed from a specialist with an excellent
reputation and a place in the history of science, whose contribution to modern-day navigation was spectacular, but who was known only to a scientific community, to a public, even popular character in the late 20th century.

The article puts the book in context and shows the influence it had on the 'non-scientific' public. It can be read here if you're interested.

Thanks for the link, Annerlee. I really liked the discussion at the end. It took a long time, but Harrison finally got some much deserved recognition.

I thought it was kind of odd how Harrison turned down the invitation to join the Royal Society. Yes, he asked for it on behalf of his son, but he would have known that they couldn't grant this request, that his son would have to earn this in his own right. He evidently did - or did his father's request actually come into play?

Here's the awesome H4 front and back...

Thanks Janet! I'm not surprised it took so long to create such beautiful pieces. How times have changed. I used to be that tools were expected to be both useful and aesthetically pleasing. Now it seems we lean too much in one direction or the other, but rarely have both.

Today the pace of life has picked up so much. Time is money, and if cheaper tools are available, taking the time to craft something special becomes a bit of a luxury.

That is something where Apple has been somewhat an exception. They really did strive to produce useful and attractive products. Still do I guess. I'm not an Apple user personally tho I have family and friends who are and have exposure to their products thru them. For my money, however, it's pc and android for me, and I'm fine with that.

I'm not an Apple user either. Personally, I find they have a slick interface, but are not as useful as pc or android, especially because they lock users in to their way of doing things.

I agree, Lara. Apple locks users into their way and products. Tho others lining up trying to follow their example. Would love to lock users in, too, if they can. For now, good competition seems to keep that from happening.

Still, I do admire Apple aesthetics. And i think they have been leaders in the industry. Just hasn't been worth the high price tag for me.

I think prototypes nowadays are very functional so that they can be changed easily. They're a team effort, with one person / department in charge of functionality, another in charge of design, another in charge of marketing... Prototypes evolve through different stages and often involve computer modelling too of course.

If Harrison had employed a PR / marketing guy, the story may have been different...

I think it's a very different procedure nowadays... compare the mouse prototype below to Harrison's masterpiece. I can't imagine Harrison EVER submitting something like this!! But hey! It's 'just' a prototype