All About Books discussion

I'm starting Sanctuary at the beginning of October. Please join me if you fancy it.

I read this not so long ago so I won't be rereading. But I look forward to following the discussion :)

I will be joining you in this one, Gill. It is sitting on my nightstand.,

Looking forward to it, Diane and Leslie.

I'm starting reading this tomorrow.

I'm ready to start tomorrow too.

Diane, a slight problem for me. The copy I'm reading is an online copy, and I'm away from home until Tuesday, and the wifi signal is very poor where I am. So I'll only be able to read a very limited bit of the book before Tuesday.

Have only read a chapter and a half. No problem Gill, will just read a little each day until you get back. Enjoy yourself, Faulkner will wait. Lol

Gill, I found the readalong thread! I'd love to join you & Diane!

I'm glad you are held up!... I read so much slower than you do!

Great, Johanna!

Wonderful, Johanna.

I've got myself started now, and am at the end of chapter 3. It's quite strange reading a book by Faulkner that seems relatively easy to follow.

Just finished chapter 4 (view spoiler)[ what a description of the impact of being over drunk. (hide spoiler)] I'm finding Faulkner's writing style quite harsh in this book. It's fine, but not what I expected.

I am at the same place you are Gill. These characters are such terrible people, harsh is a good word.

I've just finished chapter 10. I think the book is well written, but pretty short on likeable characters. Has the person called The Woman been given a name at any stage? If so, I missed it.

I found this article interesting http://www.nytimes.com/1981/02/22/boo...

Thanks, Diane. Very interesting article. 'It marks the intrusion of Greek tragedy into the detective story.' What a fabulous quote.

I've just started chapter 17. Quite suddenly, I'm finding the descriptive language sounds much more like the other Faulkner books I've read. As you might expect, this means that I like it better now than the earlier parts.

Just finished Chapter ten, I am finding not a one redeemable character in this. Usually in his novels there is at least one character to latch on to but so far not here. Is there one further on?

The only two who may have redeeming features, I think are Horace and The Woman, is she called Ruby?

I'm finding it a better book now, but at some stages I was only carrying on because it was Faulkner. Some of the story line is so bleak and horrid. Do you know whether that was common in books of this date? I don't think it was in England.

I remember reading somewhere that his publisher said if he published this they would both be hanged, so I think this was very shocking in its day. Starting chaper 17 and I agree it is easier and more reminiscent of Faulkner. Still not quite sure what Rubys story is but she seems the most sympathetic character.

I think the section where Temple is in her bedroom at Miss Reba's, and the description of the clock and Temple thinking about half past ten, is Faulkner at his best.

Just starting Chapter 17. For the first 35 pages I kept turning to the dust jacket, just to be sure I was reading Faulkner... the style is that different from the Sound & the Fury and As I Lay Dying, the two Faulkner books I have read so far.

Being able understand what people are saying and what is going on is a big leap forward for me, although in parts it's still not entirely clear, like at the beginning when Benbow is going on about Little Belle and men from the train... no clue what that was all about...

As for characterization, Faulkner's South is peopled with the ugliest possible types you can find in literature. The educated upper classes are mostly vacuous, idle, vain and obsessed with what people will say, like Benbow's sister and Miss Jenny. Uneducated white folk and farmers are mean and brutish, almost like savages. Benbow is the first likable white character I've come across. Black folk fare better, with Dilsey, and now Ruby and Bobby, being the only characters I've seen display concern and kindness for others.

So far, this has been much easier for me to read than As I Lay Dying. In large part because it's plot driven, with a series of happenings propelling you to read further, whereas AILD was mostly a brutal character study. And this being a noir thriller, I expect ugly characters... :)

Very interesting Diane. Thank you!
Diane S ☔ wrote: "I found this article interesting http://www.nytimes.com/1981/02/22/boo..."

Yes, Gill! I'm on page 160 and the pages where Temple is thinking about half past ten are, so far, the most beautiful in the book and rival the most beautiful language in TSTF!

I'm wondering whether the major revision Faulkner made, specially to the beginning of the book, is what accounts for the big difference in style between the first third and the rest of the book - because it's really noticeable.

Gill wrote: "I think the section where Temple is in her bedroom at Miss Reba's, and the description of the clock and Temple thinking about half past ten, is Faulkner at his best."

I'm on 130 so haven't read that far yet, but do aggree that this part of the book seems to be written much bettet.

Also, on the topic of language, the repeated use of two groups of words jumped out at me:

1. Temple doesn't walk. She jumps, leaps, skips. In the beginning, when she is at the Frenchman's estate, most descriptions of her moving from one spot to another all use jumping or synonymous words. It finally hit me in a place where she is moving to or from the porch and the way Faulkner wrote it, the image in my mind was that she flew, Wonder Woman like. Then I went back and reread descriptions and yes, she leaps everywhere, all the time. And she is still leaping at Miss Reba's where she always jumps to and from the bed.

2. Miss Reba's house is the house of death. The word death appears in almost every description along with countless synonyms. Even the ten thirty clock: "again time had overtaken the dead gesture behind the clock crystal." And the mattress: "the dry complaint of mattress and springs died into the terrific silence in which they crouched."

For a consummate craftsman like Faulkner, this is not accidental - it must be contributing to the story, but how? Any ideas?

Re the revision, I think I read that originally it was stream of consciousness for the first few chapters, which is completely different from the revised version.

Re Temple, she strikes me as very impulsive and agitated, so maybe this links to the jumping etc. Or do you think it's more symbolic than this? Maybe to do with not being too connected to the earth? Trying not to be involved in what is happening to her?

I'll have a ponder about Miss Reba and the house of death.

You know The Woman's baby? At times, from the description, I think the baby is dead, but it presumably isn't. How can it survive for so long whilst it is so ill? And do we know what's wrong with it?

I've decided to buy Becoming Faulkner: The Art and Life of William Faulkner for my kindle. I've had my eye on it for a bit. Apparently it's very good at showing the links between his life and his books.

In the beginning I too thought the baby was dead.

Love this quote which is typical Faulkner, page 139, a wooden rosary in one hand and the tankard in the other.

I took Temple running here and there as desperation, because she doesn't know where to go or what to do.

Sounds really interesting Gill. Will be very interested in what you think of it.

It seems that between Faulkner changing the first chapters from stream-of-consciousness to straight narration and moving content around to clarify the story line, and the additions and revisions of his publisher, editors and subsequent updaters, the stylistic continuity suffered to the point that it's quite evident... Oh well, there is still enough beautiful language left to delight us!

I think you're right Gill & Diane, that Temple's jumping reflects her personality/character and the scary situation she is in. I had another thought, but will wait to discuss until Dianne catches up to where I am.

As for the house of death, I have no idea what will happen in the book, so at this point I'm thinking all the mentions of death are the equivalent of the creepy music and lighting in suspense movies that get you all tense and scared before anything has really happened.... We'll see! :)

I have no idea what is the matter with the baby, but there is definitely something not OK and it's made us all wonder whether the baby is even alive.

Becoming Faulkner sounds fabulous Gill! I've been checking the Faulkner Centre's website and the US map and have been thinking that I would love to use one of my trips to visit my mother in Florida to drive up to Oxford, Mississippi and visit Rowan Oaks and/or attend the yearly Faulkner conference, which is quite large. He is definitely a writer you want to discuss and study further!

From "As I Lay Trying: How to read William Faulkner"
http://www.mprnews.org/story/2016/04/...

Or, better yet, think of Faulkner's novels as symphonic in structure. And just as a symphony moves from section to section, presenting varying moods and impressions, altering speeds and rhythms, at times introducing leitmotifs — melodic phrases that are associated with an idea, person or situation — and themes that will be developed more fully later on, at other times looping backward to recapitulate earlier themes, but always advancing toward a final resolution, so too does the Faulkner novel employ shifting tones and impressions, hints and foreshadowings, repetitions and recapitulations, time shifts looping backward and forward, all consciously intended to shape the story not so much on the pages of the book but in the reader's mind and imagination.

Just read that article, Johanna. Thanks. I thought it was excellent, especially the comments re how we are happy to eg listen to the same piece of music again and again, but are reluctant to re-read literature.

A road trip to the Faulkner conference sounds great.

I've just realised my copy is due back on Saturday, so I need to get some reading fitted in these few days.

I've just finished reading chapter 21. What a strange mix this book is, a lot of it reads like a detective novel and then you realise that what you're reading is classic Faulkner.
E.g.
" Time's not such a bad thing after all. Use it right, and you can stretch anything out, like a rubber band, until it busts somewhere, and there you are, with all tragedy and despair in two little knots between thumb and finger of each hand. "
E.g.
Somewhere a whippoorwill called, reiterant, tremulous, plaintful above the insects.

:) I read a comment somewhere about this being not just a great noir but also great literature... Two for the price of one....!

Gill wrote: "I've just finished reading chapter 21. What a strange mix this book is, a lot of it reads like a detective novel and then you realise that what you're reading is classic Faulkner.
E.g.
" Time's n..."

Seems we are now all in the same place. Feel sorry for Ruby and Temple of course. Still not sure of Ruby's whole story, how she ended up where she did. Curious how this will all end. Yes the further you read the more Faulkner you get.

Yes, very interesting how we don't mind listening to a song or seeing a painting many times but we don't want to re-read a book... Probably because the plot is such an integral part of the whole and, once you know the story, the main point of interest is gone, but it's pleasing to hear a melody you like over and over again. You also need a certain type of book, one that has other elements besides the plot, like beautiful poetic language, and this cancels out most popular books on the market.

I took a lot of literature courses in university and in every course the prof's directive was the same: you must read the book three times. The first to get a general sense of what the book is about, and the second and third to see the structure and how the words, sentences, themes, analogies, etc. contribute to characterization, mood & plot. To see and savour the how, not just the what, which is such an integral part of reading Faulkner or Joyce...

To this day, I often find the structural discussions far more interesting than those about plot. Mainly because I'm intensely curious about how things are put together and how they work. This also accounts for most of my reading choices...

Gill wrote: "Just read that article, Johanna. Thanks. I thought it was excellent, especially the comments re how we are happy to eg listen to the same piece of music again and again, but are reluctant to re-rea..."

Excellent Dianne! So this was my comment: I keep thinking that Temple wasn't completely 'kidnapped', but that we are dealing with a spoiled, bored and jaded individual for whom this is an adventure of sorts. So all her jumping is an exploratory leap into the unknown, a leap away from her world.

But poor Ruby. She has sacrificed so much for Lee Goodwin and then comes Temple to blow the setup to pieces... Temple had several options and opportunities to save herself and did not take them. Ruby had none - it all happened to her and still she had the humanity to try to help Temple...

away Diane S ☔ wrote: "Seems we are now all in the same place. Feel sorry for Ruby and Temple of course. Still not sure of Ruby's whole story, how she ended up where she did. Curious how this will all end. Yes the furthe..."

Chapter 21, provides a little humor. Very welcome. Not sure about Temple, think it might have started as an adventure but I feel, at least, right now, that she is traumatized and doesn't know what to do.

Only if a book is difficult to understand do I reread and I tend to reread specific pages while I am reading the book, not reread the book later. Too many books to read, don't want to go over what I already read once.

Chapter 25 has even more humour, Diane. It also progresses the story line quite a bit.

I've finished now. Looking forward to discussing the final few chapters.

I too am finished, this novel was quite a combination of genres. Will wait until Johanna says she is finished to discuss. Quite a turn around though.

ha ha ha! This made me think so much of Garcia Marquez!!!

The orchestra had ceased and were now climbing onto their chairs, with their instruments. The floral offerings flew; the coffin teetered. "Catch it!" a voice shouted. They sprang forward, but the coffin crashed heavily to the floor, coming open. The corpse tumbled slowly and sedately out and came to rest with its face in the center of a wreath. "Play something!" the proprietor bawled, waving his arms; "play! Play!"

Finished the book earlier today & looking forward to hearing your impressions....

I was disappointed in the end, although I shouldn't have been - it would have been truly surprising if Benbow would have been able to save Goodwin. As for Temple, promenading safe & sound in Paris, par for the course, people like her never suffer the consequences of their actions. It's everyone else who pays.

Question for you: did either of you pick up on Benbow masturbating to his step daughter's portrait?... Ugh!

My revised review is up at: https://www.goodreads.com/review/show...

Yes, picked that up too, so there went my good guy impression. Found the turnaround in Temple quite believable, early stockhom syndrome perhaps and just like Patty Hearst, waltzes away from the whole mess. What a group of unlikeable charactets.

Call me totally naive, but I couldn't figure out why the narrative changed so suddenly and what the woman riding on the hood of the car was all about. I figured it was another editing mishap or some clue to a future plot development. It wasn't until I read a plot summary on Wikipedia that the mystery was solved... :)

I'm still thinking this book over. It was almost as if Faulkner wrote a few chapters, put it away for a bit, then wrote some more; several times.

It's hard to know who there is to feel favourable about. I mean, I know we're all flawed, but these characters, as my brother says, 'take the biscuit.'

What did you think about the final chapter, giving all the extra information about Popeye? I thought it seemed like Faulkner had made his character notes for Popeye, and decided he might as well add them.

Yes, I thought Temple was believable, both in terms of the nightmare she had got herself into, and the fact that things turned out OK for her.

I spent most of the book wondering about the woman and the baby, and now I've forgotten what happened!

This is an odd book and I wonder if Faulkner hadn't become FAULKNER whether this book would still be in print, much less being read and talked about. In the end, it seems more than anything that it's a money-making attempt/experiment for a young writer kept alive because it's a unique work within a great writer's oeuvre.

The rewrites and reshuffling affected the content as much as the style and the Popeye bio at the end is the most obvious lapse. Faulkner probably felt strongly about it but couldn't figure out where to put it. I wonder what our opinion of Popeye would have been if he had placed it closer to Temple's rape or captivity at Miss Reba's. What do you think?

I also had an issue with the two comical interludes, which like Popeye's bio, seem totally stuck on, probably for commercial reasons. I work in the design industry and we have a joke/riddle to describe a compromised design that is the result of many different people asking for/requiring a certain feature either to enhance the commercial appeal, usability, budget, personal preference, technical requirement, etc. "What is a camel? It's a horse designed by committee." The minute I hit the funny chapters, the saying popped into my head and I think the biggest flaws in this book are just that: It's a camel.

As for the Woman, she just vanishes from the story - suddenly and completely. For a major character this seems wrong and I can't figure out if it's another editing or 'not sure what to do with this' mistake or if it's meant to underscore how much of a non-entity she was and how some people are totally disposable. What do you think?