You'll love this one...!! A book club & more discussion

One of the group reads for October is True Grit by Charles Portis. Please discuss the book in this thread.

The discussion leader is Peggy.

In order to receive a badge you must:
1. have completed the book before or during October 2016.
2. discussed it in this thread. Discussion must be more than "I read the book and I liked it". Discussion requires something more substantial and analytical of what you read, for example, thoughts, opinions, impact it had on you, what was your favourite part, was it what you expected it to be like etc. You may also like to review the book and post a link to the review in this thread.
3. Report that you have read AND discussed the book in the reporting thread (include a brief summary of what you thought of the book).

General Rules:
1. Please mark your spoilers with the spoiler tags along with mentioning what stage of the book you are at so other's don't get a nasty shock. Chapter numbers/titles are generally best as they are the same across all formats and editions.
2. The book may be combined with the Year Long Challenge, Topplers, and Monthly Challenges.

Happy reading!

Yay! I'm excited about leading the discussion!

To get started: have you read many westerns before? And has anyone seen any of the movie adaptations of the book? I saw the most recent one, by the Coen brothers. I remember that I liked it but I don't remember any specifics..

Oh, and I read the first chapter. I like it, but it has not grabbed me (yet) like some other books do.

Does anyone know what a drummer is? The translations I get all refer to someone playing drums, but I'm wondering if it's not something else here?

Good luvk. I DO LIKe westerns but this onr rather bored me. Never seen the movie. A lot of good reviews though so don't take my opinion too serious.

If its wartime then the drummer eould be a drummer boy. Cant recall if its wartime

I will be reading this book, well, listening to it, actually. I hope to be able to start later today. I haven't seen the movie, and have read very few westerns, though I did read the other group read, The Sisters Brothers, and thought it was terrific. Looking forward to the discussion!

A drummer is a salesman, I think Peggy. I do not have my book yet (I am next in line) but I am almost sure that I have read the book, many, many years ago. I have not seen the newer movie but I have watched all of the John Wayne versions numerous times. I loved Mattie and the Glen Campbell character.

If I remember correctly, I did not like the book at first. I did not like the dialogue. After doing some research though, I found out that it really was the way that they spoke in Arkansas during this time period.

That makes sense Cherie, thanks!

What did you not like about the dialogue Cherie? I haven't noticed anything strange so far.

I'm somewhere in chapter 3. I'm enjoying it more now than I did when I finished chapter 1.

(view spoiler)[ It was funny how Mattie managed to get all the money from Stonehill at the end. She sure doesn't act like a 14 year old girl! (hide spoiler)]

I am at the end of Part 2 of the audio version (view spoiler)[ (Rooster is testifying at Wharton's trial). (hide spoiler)] I guess 14-year-old girls in that era had (view spoiler)[ a much different skill set and maturity level than girls today. It's quite a stretch to believe Mattie's actions. (hide spoiler)]. With that one exception, the story is so far about what I was expecting of an old western, (view spoiler)[ rough men, drinking, gambling, and lots of killing. (hide spoiler)].

I don't think I can explain, Peggy, without the book. I just thought that they talked funny. I am not sure someone who learned a language, other than English, first, might notice. It is not typical southern or western cadence.

That's probably it Cherie :)

I agree about 14 year olds Trudy Ann! I guess in that time there was no time for girls to be girly like 14 year olds are now, so they had to be tougher. But on the other hand, were girls not supposed to stay at home and do house work? I notice that the adult men in the story are a bit surprised in the beginning but soon don't treat her like a young girl at all.

For those who finished chapter 3, what's your first impression of Rooster Cogburn?

I'm in chapter 4 (or did I finish it?) and it's definitely picking up pace.

I finished chapter 5. I love Mattie! (view spoiler)[ I'm reading the parts where she outsmarts the men both with arguments and the way she acts with a smile on my face. I love how she goes her own way!

I like rooster, he seems like a decent man despite his job. I don't like the Leboeuf guy. (hide spoiler)]

Peggy wrote: "That's probably it Cherie :)

I agree about 14 year olds Trudy Ann! I guess in that time there was no time for girls to be girly like 14 year olds are now, so they had to be tougher. But on the oth..."

Remember, Mattie was used to helping her father run the ranch and help him with his business and accounts, so she was not a typical stay at home girl.

I bought a copy of both group read books this morning.

I was going to wait for the library copy for True Grit, but the copy I bought has a bonus section for young readers. Maybe I can get my grandson to read it. There has to be more than killing zombies and shooting aliens on his Xbox games.

You're right Cherie. I think she also mentions in one of the first pages that though the way she acted as a 14-year old was not very common, she was not the only girl like that.

When did you read it before Cherie? I looked up your review but there was none.. :)

I never entered a review, because I was not sure I had read it, but, I am pretty sure I did. I never came across the title to actually enter it into GR - until now. :0)

I see that the book was published in 1968 and the movie came out in 1969. I am pretty sure we went to the drive-in-theater to see it. I probably read the book in the 1980s.

I could not count the number of times I have seen the movie, but reading it now, I can hear the voices as I read the dialogue and see the scenes so clearly. I absolutely love the scene where Mattie is bargaining with the livery stable owner, Mr. Stonehill, over the cost of her father's horse, the saddle, the gray horse, and the ponies and she starts telling him about her lawyer J. Noble Daggett and what he will think about the settlement.

What did you think about her account of the Warton trial? I was amused that she thought of herself as a historical writer. This must be her, when she is older and looking back and telling the story.

The description of Rooster as a Grover Cleveland look alike was amusing. "I was surprised when an old one-eyed jasper that was built along the lines of Grover Cleveland weht up and was sworn. I say "old." He was about forty years of age. The floor boards squeaked under his weight. He had a mustache like Cleveland too. "
https://www.google.com/?gws_rd=ssl#q=...

jasper: First used as slang in 1896 (according to the Online Etymology Dictionary), to call someone a Jasper is to call them a rustic simpleton... in other words, a hick.

I just picked up the book at my library today. And I believe I maybe be reading a first edition, it's the Simon & Schuster 1968. For the age of the book it is amazing shape. I'm not a huge fan of the western genre, but I'm looking forward to this read!

From cramberry.net. True Grit vocabulary cards.
Drummers are traveling salesmen.
https://cramberry.net/sets/109048-tru...

A Jasper here is a wasp! Well, I don't use this slang term but I know many people who do.

Oh, sorry about the Google link. It was supposed to be a picture of Grover Cleveland.

edit: hmm. the link works on the internet version but did not work last night when I logged in on my iPod.

Thanks for the info Cherie and Heather.

Cherie, I didn't get that part of the book. I vagely remembered Cleveland to be a president but had no idea what he looked like, and couldn't look it up at the time. Also didn't know what a Jasper was. I had to google some more words, like 'hoorawing' (which is an old word for harrassing).

Heather, thanks for that link, that's very useful!

Cherie wrote: "I see that the book was published in 1968 and the movie came out in 1969. I am pretty sure we went to the drive-in-theater to see it. I probably read the book in the 1980s.

I could not count the n..."

The trial: in the blurb of my book it says (view spoiler)[ that Mattie tells her story 40 years later, so you're right :) (hide spoiler)]

When I saw that the trial was written the way it was I had my doubts, but I really like the way Mattie recollects everything and little notes she adds.

Heather wrote: "I just picked up the book at my library today. And I believe I maybe be reading a first edition, it's the Simon & Schuster 1968. For the age of the book it is amazing shape. I'm not a huge fan of t..."

That's really cool! Perhaps not that many people have borrowed it? It's almost 50 years old!

I find myself really looking forward to reading the book, but I can't pinpoint why exactly. I think I really like Mattie, her personality but also the way she tells her story, and I want to read more about how she handles all the adult men who get in her way.

Peggy - I am glad you are enjoying it! I am looking forward to reading more too.

Heather - Isn't it great when you can pick up such old versions of wonderful books at the library? It always tickles me to think about how many other people have read the story from the same book. Does it have the old pocket and card in the back? I read another book last month that was printed in 1974 that still had them. Fun to see the dates.

I also am enjoying the western setting a lot. I like the horses, marshalls, pistols, train robberies and all that. It's what I think of when I think of westerns and I always find it sort of romantic. Also what I've seen from movies, the houses, the way people dress. A few months ago I saw a bit of that really famous western movie (lol, can you believe I can't come up with the name right now?) and I was so intrigued! Definitely want to see it all, and I'll add more books to my tbr too. I'm looking forward to reading the other western I planned for this month.

And I'm glad the book is not so violent (view spoiler)[ the only thing that made me flinch a little was when Moon's fingers were cut off (hide spoiler)]

Once upon a time in the west!

Are you finished, Peggy?

I read this book yesterday and absolutely loved it!
At the end Mattie says she traveled on a varnish train. I have made a few attempts to discover what that is but haven't been successful yet.

I love how serious Mattie is although she delivers some pretty funny lines. She never cracks a smile or loses sight of their mission. And Rooster is funny/happy until it is time to get down to business. They make a good pair.

A varnish train refers to a private railway coach. (view spoiler)[Since Mattie was recovering from her wounds and was transported on a stretcher, it seems that was the reason she was traveling in a private car. (hide spoiler)]

Cherie, it does have a pocket, but not one with dates on it. The library I use doesn't keep the cards in the back of the book permanently. How I wish they did! I would love to see how many times it has been checked out. I'm almost half way through the book now and I'm really enjoying it!

I'll join the discussion once I'm on a computer instead of my phone. :)

Cherie, no not yet. I still have to read the last chapter but it is pretty long. I should finish it on the train today.

Heather, yes, typing long messages on a phone is very annoying!

Connie, glad you enjoyed it so much! Was it your first western? Will you read more?

I finished! I loved the last chapter, so much happened! I actually spent my first 10 minutes at work reading just to finish it.

(view spoiler)[ I didn't think Mattie would actually shoot Chaney by the creek, but then I also wasn't surprised when she did. And then the whole shoot-out with everybody getting hurt! I had a hard time reading about Blackie when Roosters took Mattie to a doctor.. and I was so sad when the pony died! And Mattie had her arm amputated! But it seemed that it was kind of skimmed over, like it was cutting of her hair and not worrying because it will grow again. I wish Mattie had a chance to see Rooster again.. (hide spoiler)]

LOL! I should not have read your spoiler, Peggy. I was not done with the book yet and it definitely has a spoiler in it.

I just posted my review and I indicated that I either had never read the actual book, or my mind only wanted to remember the 1969 movie ending, because it was a surprise to me that (view spoiler)[ Mattie had to have her arm amputated (hide spoiler)]. I was looking at scenes from the newer movie with Jeff Bridges but I did not look at the ending. Now, I am curious.

It does not matter to me now, because I can say for sure that I have definitely read the book and it did not change my mind. I think it is a wonderful story and I gave it my 5 stars, hands down.

Did your book have the Afterword by Donna Tartt?

Haha, it was spoilered for a reason! ;-)

No, mine doesn't have the afterword. Does yours? How is the movie ending different from the book? (view spoiler)[ is it only the arm? (hide spoiler)]

I'm so happy that the book was not a disappointment for you, reading it after 40 years! That would have been a shame..

I'm a little more than half way through the book, my book does not have chapter numbers in it so I'm going with a short description that hopefully doesn't give anything away. LOL

Up to the point where they find the shelter in the woods with two men that are already in it. (view spoiler)[ So far I find it very hard to believe Mattie is a 14 year old girl, not saying that is a bad thing. But she definitely is very bold and cunning for a girl that age. Do think maybe the time-frame the novel is set in might have something to do with it? I would imagine women were still be married off pretty early back then, but other novels I have read portrayed women as meek and laid back. So it's nice to see a little bit of feistiness from a younger girl. (hide spoiler)]

The moment Rooster was introduced (view spoiler)[ I knew he was the man to help Mattie with her mission! Talk about a hard handed man! As much as I don't like him at some points, I love him at others. I really like him calling Maddie "Sis" I think it's cute and endearing. (hide spoiler)]

About the 2 men the meet at the shelter (view spoiler)[ I knew they were lying right from the get go! It seems everyone in this book is a feisty sort, they definitely were not going to back down! I really can't believe he cut his buddies fingers off! (hide spoiler)]

I can't wait for what's next. At the beginning I wasn't loving the book, but now I'm having a hard time putting it down!

Don't read unless you are finished with the book. The movie ending vs the book ending (view spoiler)[Mattie did not loose her arm. The Texan died. After she was well, Rooster rode home with her. (hide spoiler)]

The book was definitely not a disappointment. I still love it. I was surprised about some of the slang/old terms, that I did not remember. I remember some of them being spoken in the movie, but the one I never understood until now was "dogfall". I looked it up. It was in the question that Ned Pepper asked of Rooster when he was confronting the four outlaws in the meadow and blocking their way. (view spoiler)[He was asking if he thought they were evenly matched although it was 4 to 1. Ned was asking Rooster if he thought he had a chance to win against them. (hide spoiler)]

The one that Connie mentioned and clarified was new to me too. (Not in the movie.)

Cherie wrote: I was looking at scenes from the newer movie with Jeff Bridges but I did not look at the ending. Now, I am curious"

I haven't read the book, but I've watched John Wayne's version more times than I wish to admit to. I recently watched the remake with Jeff Bridges and (view spoiler)[ don't read this spoiler unless you really want to know, Cherie... (view spoiler)[ her arm is amputated in the remake (hide spoiler)]. (hide spoiler)]

Peggy, I don't read many westerns, but I read a few. I have read Zane Grey and The Sisters Brothers; however, this one was really special. (Actually, I believe this one was the best western I have read!) I think Mattie made it unique. (view spoiler)[I also hated that Mattie's pony Little Blackie died. Poor sweet horse. (hide spoiler)]

Heather wrote: "I'm a little more than half way through the book, my book does not have chapter numbers in it so I'm going with a short description that hopefully doesn't give anything away. LOL

Up to the point w..."

Wow Heather, your thoughts are exactly the same as mine, all of them! I like the action in the book without it being too violent for me.

Cherie msg #39
I enjoyed the Afterward by Donna Tartt. I loved that all the women in her family recommended the book to each other.

It has been many years since I saw the John Wayne movie, so while I was reading I couldn't remember whether (view spoiler)[Mattie had her arm amputated in the movie and I just forgot, but I was stunned when that happened in the book.

When Mattie sent her father's body home with instructions for the funeral only to find out later that the wrong man had delivered the eulogy, Mattie bemoaned the fact that she couldn't be two places at once, but she knew she should have taken care of the service if she wanted it done right. It was a perfect example of how she took care of business. (hide spoiler)]

I had no idea that I was going to love this book so much!

I finished the book and I was very happy with how most of it turned out.
After the scene in the shelter in the woods (view spoiler)[ I really enjoyed hearing some of Rooster's back story. It was very interesting that he didn't consider himself a thief and Mattie was very admit about telling him, stealing is stealing! (hide spoiler)]
The ending: (view spoiler)[ I was heartbroken when Little Blackie died! I was really hoping the she was going to take him home with her.
I wasn't surprised at all to discover Mattie became a business woman, she really had a head on her shoulders, didn't she?
Oh how I wish she could've seen Rooster again, what are the odds that he died only a few days before they would've met?! (hide spoiler)]

Overall, I thought the book started slow, but it didn't take me long to get wrapped up into the story and wanting to know how it ended. I read the last 1/2 of the book in one night.

So, who do you think the title "True Grit" is for? Rooster, Mattie? Or both? (view spoiler)[ I'm going with both, without Mattie's grit, Chaney would've probably gotten away scot-free of her father's murder. No one would've hunted for him if she hadn't hired Rooster. She was tireless in her quest and in the end, proved she had as much grit as Rooster! (hide spoiler)]

Interesting question Heather! I hadn't considered it before, thinking it was about (view spoiler)[ Rooster, as Mattie said several times that she heard he was the marshall with most grit. But I agree with you, Mattie definitely showed true grit too!

I also hoped she would have taken Blackie home. Although they got Chaney in the end, there were a lot of sad things in the ending too. Blackie, the amputated arm, she and Rooster never seeing each other again.. but I think it wouldn't have fit the book if all was sunny and happy and perfect at the end. (hide spoiler)] What do you girls think?

Peggy wrote: "Interesting question Heather! I hadn't considered it before, thinking it was about Rooster, as Mattie said several times that she heard he was the marshall with most grit. But I agree with you, Ma..."

Often times in life things aren't "happily ever after." I think the West was a rough place, and tragic accidents happened. The author was trying to give the reader a true feel for the time. (view spoiler)[For example, the scene at the courthouse when the people thronged from far and wide to see the three men hanged was morbid; however, I know that it did happen just that way historically, and the author was giving the reader a flavor of the time.

Because Mattie lost her arm, she demonstrated how much grit she had when she overcame it.
I think "true grit" applies to both Mattie and Rooster because they were two of a kind and really need each other.
I loved that she buried him in her family plot. (hide spoiler)]

I had to spend several hours in the car on the weekend, so finally listened to the remainder of the book. It wasn't entirely what I expected of a western, and was a pleasant surprise.

The audio version was narrated by Donna Tartt. I much prefer her writing to her narration. I enjoyed her Mattie, other characters, not so much. Granted, there were several voices, most of them male. I think I would have appreciated the characterizations much more had I read it instead of listening to it.

I found the story slow to get going. I wasn't very interested in Rooster Cogburn's backstory. Things became much more interesting when Mattie finally caught up with Chaney. Mattie was a great character - resilient, funny, straight-spoken, opinionated, persistent, mature beyond her years. I even warmed up somewhat to crusty old Rooster.

I also plan to read a Zane Grey novel for this month's theme, then I think that will be enough from the western genre for awhile!