Book Nook Cafe discussion

Share with us what you read in October 2016!


Please provide:

~ A GoodReads link
~ A few sentences telling us how you felt about the book.
~ How would you rate the book

I read only two books this month. I have to spend less time online and more time reading !

Trials of the Century: A Decade-by-Decade Look at Ten of America's Most Sensational Crimes by Mark J. Phillips
Non-fiction
rate 4/5
I enjoyed this book. Each crime in only about 30 pages. Which is just enough for me. It went light on the gory details which was fine with me. I have to say this book did have me looking up photos and other details online and that was fun. The book is a good starting point and may lead some to further explore some of the famous crimes in a more detailed book.

The Cherry Orchard by The Cherry Orchard
Fiction- Play
Rate 2/5
I read this classic play because I was seeing a performance of it at the Roundabout theater. Unfortunately, I just didn't feel much for the aristocratic Russian family that is about to lose their home and cherry orchard because they can't pay the mortgage. They could have saved their home had they parceled off the cherry orchard. This reminded me a bit of Downton Abbey. Though the Downton clan did see that the times they are a changing and did parcel some of their land. The characters in this play just don't seem to comprehend the gravity of their situation for some reason. The play has elements of humor that mostly fell flat on the page and the stage production that I saw. Cucumber? Huh ? I read the play first and to be honest the Russian names had me lost. It was much easier to follow on the stage. The audience response and the reviews I read were as bleak as the play.

I just re-read by review for The Cherry Orchard a few minutes ago (because you liked it Alias) and I had to laugh at what I wrote. I actually don't remember anything about it anymore.

Trials of the Century sounds interesting. There are very few ratings and reviews, which is kind of weird....

Julie wrote: "I just re-read by review for The Cherry Orchard a few minutes ago (because you liked it Alias) and I had to laugh at what I wrote. I actually don't remember anything about it anymore."

I read your review, Julie ! LOL Great minds think alike.... cucumber. Even at the play I saw Sunday when she takes the cucumber out to eat the audience reaction was confusion. Weird for sure.

Julie wrote: "Trials of the Century sounds interesting. There are very few ratings and reviews, which is kind of weird...."

It's a simple & quick straightforward telling of the crimes. If you are a fan of the crime channel on TV, this would be a book for you.

I haven't listed my books in ages because I am usually the one with only one book or two. But this month I have more! :-)

Pavilion of Women: A Novel of Life in the Women's Quarters: 4 stars
A book by The Good Earth author Pearl Buck. This book was a tad slow in some spots, but overall I liked it very much. It spent a bit of time exploring the role of women.

Colorless Tsukuru Tazaki and His Years of Pilgrimage: 4 stars
Kitchen: 4 stars
Both of these books are by Japanese authors, take place in Japan and are sad and lonely books. And I flew through both of them faster than I have read any book in a long time.

The Woman in Black: 4 stars
My Halloween reading for this year. A nice little ghost story.

The Haunting of Hill House:
I read this book a few years ago and gave it 4 stars. I listened to it on audio this month and only gave it 2. I think it requires too much thinking between the lines to work for me while I am driving in rush hour traffic.

Alias, I think we've all enjoyed following your Cherry Orchard info. Thanks for that. I could use some humor, so to speak.

Julie, your last two books are ones i enjoyed when reading them. Interesting how our tastes can change but I wonder if listening alters the experience as well. The Japanese books sound good, so i've added them to my TBR.

For me, only two books were read in October, both novels.
The Bones of Paradise by Jonis Agee, which i felt was not as rewarding as i hoped. Neither the description of the sand hills of Nebraska nor the mystery itself was rewarding. And the red herrings were unexplained, to boot.

Let Me Die in His Footsteps by Lori Roy evoked the hills of northern Kentucky rather well. The dual time line (1952 and 1936) was a challenge, as were figuring out where some characters belonged. LOL.

If I had to recommend one, it would be the second, which was a recommendation to me from my well-read aunt.

My noteworthy books completed in October:

Ghostland: An American History in Haunted Places (audio) -- well-written discussions of American history and sociology around the theme of "haunted places" though I'd recommend the print edition as it took me a long time to get through the audiobook.

The Parrots -- novel following the lives of the three finalists for a coveted Italian literary prize (book is an excellent translation). Omniscient narrator's voice works beautifully for giving background to the events as well as regularly switching among the finalists' thoughts.

Walking with Plato -- I real a lot of travel narrative, so am a bit finicky, but this one was terrific! Author does reference philosophers every so often, but not so much that he manages to crowd out his observations of Britain's equivalent to walking the Appalachian Trail (more or less).

To the River: A Journey Beneath the Surface -- another book on hiking in Britain, but different from Plato in tone. Here, the author walks the length of the River Ouse, bookending its two main historical features: the medieval Battle of Lewes and the site of Virginia Woolf's suicide. Lots of scenery description with quite detailed reportage on the plant life encountered, as well as some insight into her personal life. As an American, I found her book The Trip to Echo Spring easier to relate to, but the writing in both is solid.

Julie wrote: "I haven't listed my books in ages because I am usually the one with only one book or two. But this month I have more! :-)..."

I usually only have one or two a month. Remember that one book you post may be just the book that ends up being a 5 star book for someone who never would have read the book if it weren't for your post !

John wrote: "
Walking with Plato -- I real a lot of travel narrative, so am a bit finicky, but this one was terrific! Author does reference philosophers every so often, but not so much that he manages to crowd out his observations of Britain's equivalent to walking the Appalachian Trail (more or less).

To the River: A Journey Beneath the Surface -- another book on hiking in Britain, but different from Plato in tone. Here, the author walks the length of the River Ouse, bookending its two main historical features: .."

Thanks for sharing these. My neighbor loves to read books on hiking or tramping as I think the Brits call it. I will pass the titles on to her.

Good point about posting even if we've only read a book or two, Alias.

John, are you planning a walking trip in the UK or are you more inclined to read about travel? We've long thought that a walking section of time in the UK would be a good experience. Next year we hope to spend at least a couple of months there, so will look at the books you've mentioned

madrano wrote: "Interesting how our tastes can change but I wonder if listening alters the experience as well...."

I absolutely think so. Right now, I am reading Agatha Christie's Hallowe'en Party. This is the first Christie I have read on paper (well, this one is ebook) since I was in high school maybe. Recently I have been doing them all on audio. And I can say that in this case I prefer the audio. The characters of Hercule Poirot and Mrs. Oliver definitely come more alive on audio than when reading. I am finding the book somewhat dull this way.

The narrator also makes a huge difference. Also if the book is very detailed I do better with a paper book.

madrano wrote: "Good point about posting even if we've only read a book or two, Alias...."

That was my excuse for being lazy and now you guys are not letting me get away with it. :-)

:)

I do wish more book nook cafe members would participate. It does take a village to make a successful online book club.

Alias Reader wrote: "Also if the book is very detailed I do better with a paper book."

There are certain types of books I seek out for audiobooks. Easier, faster moving, exciting, shorter books....
It is definitely true that a lot of books don't work for me on audio.

Hi, group

It's been a slow summer for reading, but once my allergies kicked in fully, I spent a lot more time on the couch reading!! I bet if you tracked my reading, it would peak in Oct. and in May.

This month I finished Death's End a Chinese sci-fi classic that was translated fairly recently. It was awesome in the largest sense, about the universe and our place in it. Amazing. But start with book 1, The Three Body Problem. 5 stars+++

A Gentleman in Moscow Lovely, charming and gentle book about the Count Rostov, who was sentenced to life imprisonment in the Metropol Hotel in Moscow after returning to Russia post-revolution. The story slowly builds to its climax. It is impeccably written and each plot point is completely germane when the ending comes, but never gives the story away. Loved this one. 4 stars+++

Nutshell All I can say is that the main character and unreliable narrator is the fetus of an unpleasant woman married to an unpleasant man, and cheating on him with his unpleasant brother. The fetus is a twit as well. Mercifully, the book is short. I think it makes a perfect picture of ugly European cynicism, as opposed to American cynicism, which I think is of a different sort. That might be an indefensible statement in the end, but it's what I'm thinking now. 2stars---

Mischling Difficult to read book about the experiments conducted by Dr. Mengele at Auschwitz. Protagonists are a pair of twin girls. The details are horrific, the story progresses well until after the war, when it becomes a dog's breakfast of a plot with a hurried ending that detracts from the rest of the book. 3 stars +

Six Impossible Things Average coming of age story. Very neat, not very memorable. 3 stars for ordinariness.

Dead Mountain: The Untold True Story of the Dyatlov Pass Incident a Goodreads value book-whatever they call that, and the first one I could finish. I actually loved the story of the smart and capable wilderness hikers who were found outside their tents half dressed and frozen to death. Some had blunt force injuries, some were untouched. But why did these kids leave their tent in Siberian weather with no protection?? Excellent true life mystery story. 4 stars

Today Will Be Different Set in Seattle, with a few gratuitous swipes at Amazon, Maria Semple writes funny books with biting women who are not emotionally stable and whose lives have reached a point of crisis. I didn't think this one was as good as Where'd You Go Bernadette?, but it's 4 stars plus all day long.

I tried a few sci-fi books from the Goodreads specials, but found them lacking and put them down quickly. I also began Here I Am by Jonathan Safran Foer, one of the best books at Goodreads this year, but I thought the whole game world thing involving a building a virtual synagogue beneath a virtual lake that was all symbolic and everything, as well as the Tourette's-like bursts of graphic sexual interjections were just plain weird and reminded me of David Duchovny in Californication, which seemed to me to be all about David Duchovny wallowing in his sexual obsessions. Might have liked the underlying story of the Jewish parents at odds about their weird son, but couldn't get thru the other stuff.

I've decided I must be much more discerning about the books I choose to get for free or for a dollar. So far, I've gotten what I've paid for 95% of the time.

Michele

madrano wrote: "Good point about posting even if we've only read a book or two, Alias.

John, are you planning a walking trip in the UK or are you more inclined to read about travel? We've long thought that a walk..."

Travel narrative is one of my favorite genres. That those were about walking in Britain was a coincidence.

Michele wrote:

Today Will Be Different Set in Seattle, with a few gratuitous swipes at Amazon, Maria Semple writes funny books with biting women who are not emotionally stable and whose lives have reached a point of crisis. I didn't think this one was as good as Where'd You Go Bernadette?, but it's 4 stars plus all day long.."

I loved Bernadette. It would be hard to top that. I'm glad to see you still enjoyed her new book. I have a hold on it at the library.

Thanks for replying, John. Neat coincidence. The book Michele mentioned above, Dead Mountain: The Untold True Story of the Dyatlov Pass Incident by Donnie Eichar calls to me in the same way the two walking books you mention do. Educational but also fascinating stories.

Michele, twice a year laid low by allergies! I will stop my complaining about the random days i'm laid low by them. Worst are the days when itchy eyes are the primary symptom--i can't even find solace by reading then. Glad you share your titles with us, though.

deborah, feeling selfish writing that last sentence, aware of the misery you experienced

Alias Reader wrote: "I read your review, Julie ! LOL Great minds think alike.... cucumber. Even at the play I saw Sunday when she takes the cucumber out to eat the audience reaction was confusion. Weird for sure. ...."

Like Julie, I don't remember a lot about this play.....except the cucumber. Very weird, indeed. I read this as part of a group read and remember mentioning the weirdness of the cucumber scene. Someone stated that in Eastern countries, cucumbers were a common snack and it wouldn't be uncommon to have one in one's pocket. So.....maybe.....for Chekhov this was a common event?

Julie, I Iistened to The Haunting of Hill House when I read it and wasn't impressed either. Perhaps its a book that requires the paper copy. I may give this one another try one day, in book form.

@Michele: I'm glad you enjoyed Today Will Be Different. I had received the audio version from the library but had to take it back unread/listened to because I only listen during my commutes and I'm on vacation this week. There were people waiting for it, so no renewals. I'm back on the waiting list.

In October, I finished reading:

Genesis - I basically read this in September and just finished it in the first few days of October. This is the first of a trilogy, which I will continue to read soon.
It's a fictional but close following to actual history of American Natives, mainly South American, from pre-historic times to the 1700s. It's well told. Not always an easy read (lots of bloodshed) but heartfelt and well-written. 4-stars

Tricks Every Boy Can Do - a GR Giveaway win. A decent enough story but a bit flat. A single mother raises her twin sons during the depression. 3-stars

Sharp Objects - for a creepy book, this didn't interest me much. I don't think Gillian Flynn is an author I'll read again. 2-stars

Speaking from Among the Bones and The Dead in Their Vaulted Arches - Flavia de Luce is a delight to listen to during my commutes. Speaking From Among the Bones ended so suspensefully that I had to go right into the next. 5-stars for Speaking From Among The Bones; 3-star for The Dead In Their Vaulted Arches (Flavia just wasn't herself and she didn't seem as curious or interested in the events as usual).

Jane Eyre - I really enjoyed this story. It was different than what I was expecting, which was a romance. It's much more than that. I will read more of Charlotte Bronte's books. 4-stars

Petra wrote: "In October, I finished reading:

Genesis - I basically read this in September and just finished it in the first few days of October. This is the first of a trilogy, which I will conti..."
I was also not impressed with the last Flavia book though I do love the series.

You mean the story of Flavia in Canada? Ugh!

Flavia in Canada is the next book. I'm not sure I like having her leave Buckshaw. That just doesn't seem right.

Good news is that the Canada experiment proved unpopular, so she returns at the end of it.

:D
It will be interesting to see what hints and details he adds to the history of the De Luces and, perhaps, Harriet's mysterious past since this is a school that Harriet attended.

Petra wrote:Julie, I Iistened to The Haunting of Hill House when I read it and wasn't impressed either. Perhaps its a book that requires the paper copy. I may give this one another try one day, in book form. ..."

I believe I purchased a copy for my Kindle. I am too lazy to go look now. My Kindle is a black hole. I buy things for it and forget what the heck is on there.

That sounds like my Kobo, Alias. I always find surprises there when I look through the library.

Petra wrote:Like Julie, I don't remember a lot about this play.....except the cucumber. Very weird, indeed. I read this as part of a group read and remember mentioning the weirdness of the cucumber scene. Someone stated that in Eastern countries, cucumbers were a common snack and it wouldn't be uncommon to have one in one's pocket. So.....maybe.....for Chekhov this was a common event? ..."

Sounds as good an explanation as any I could think of. I looked online right now to see if there was a mention of it and could not find anything direct. Though I did find this on her.

Charlotte is a odd character in the play. She is the governess that is no longer needed as Anya is older and she does all the magic tricks. She seems to not want any male companionship. Maybe having to do with being an orphan?

CHARLOTTA. [Takes her hand away] If you let people kiss your hand, then they'll want your elbow, then your shoulder, and then . . .
CHARLOTTA. [To PISCHIN] My dog eats nuts too.

I guess with that line you can think where my mind wanders to with the cuke questions. lol

Here is the cuke scene.

CHARLOTTA wears a man's old peaked cap; she has unslung a rifle from her shoulders and is putting to rights the buckle on the strap.

CHARLOTTA. [Thoughtfully] I haven't a real passport. I don't know how old I am, and I think I'm young. When I was a little girl my father and mother used to go round fairs and give very good performances and I used to do the salto mortale and various little things. And when papa and mamma died a German lady took me to her and began to teach me. I liked it. I grew up and became a governess. And where I came from and who I am, I don't know. . . . Who my parents were--perhaps they weren't married--I don't know. [Takes a cucumber out of her pocket and eats] I don't know anything. [Pause] I do want to talk, but I haven't anybody to talk to . . . I haven't anybody at all.

Anyway, the Cherry Orchard takes more effort than I wish to expend to understand it.

Petra, thanks for the introduction to Genesis and its ilk. As we've been visiting many ancient Native American sites we've come to again appreciate how rich the cultures Europeans met were.

My favorite novel by Charlotte Brontë is Villette, mostly set in France (or was it Belgium?). The main character was an interesting young woman and the story developed well. Fortunately my edition had translations for the numerous French phrase and sentences. I thought i'd pass the title on to you for consideration as a next Bronte novel.

Sparse month again.

The Comedy of Errors, by Williams Shakespeare. Easily the worst of the Bard's plays. An early comedy, with some good fat jokes and a surprisingly modern take on what role marriage should play for a woman, but ultimately a Three's Company episode. Two sets of twins are mistaken for each other, hilarity allegedly ensues. Three stars.

The Job: Interviews with William S. Burroughs by William Burroughs. This one got real tedious real quick, despite the slimness of the volume. Burroughs espouses every crackpot theory of the 50s and 60s, from Wilhelm Reich to Scientology. It's pretty clear that his interests are based on a rejection what he considers to be Establishment lies, and that apparently includes the scientific method. I was hoping to get a sense of what informed his writing, and I guess I did - it just turns out that he has less of an understanding of what he's trying too accomplish than I had given him credit for. Two drug-addled stars.

Criminal : The Truth about why people do Bad Things by Tom Gash. A pop-sci read which tries to debunk the two commonly-held theories of crime: Heroes and Villains (criminals are villains and we need heroes like police officers to fight them), and Victims and Survivors (criminals are forced into crime because they have no other life-options). There's some good stuff here, with summaries of some interesting studies. Particularly recommended if you subscribe to either of the two theories of crime that Gash is trying to debunk. Four stars.

Alias Reader wrote: "My Kindle is a black hole. I buy things for it and forget what the heck is on there.."

You have NO idea :)

I was worried going from my old 4 GB model to a 2 GB model. Fortunately, deleting a bunch of work-related PDFs freed up some space.

Mkfs wrote: Criminal : The Truth about why people do Bad Things by Tom Gash. A pop-sci read which tries to debunk the two commonly-held theories of crime: Heroes and Villains (criminals are villains and we need heroes like police officers to fight them), and Victims and Survivors (criminals are forced into crime because they have no other life-options). There's some good stuff here, with summaries of some interesting studies. Particularly recommended if you subscribe to either of the two theories of crime that Gash is trying to debunk. Four stars. .."

This sounds interesting. Thanks for sharing this title.

Mkfs wrote: "Alias Reader wrote: "My Kindle is a black hole. I buy things for it and forget what the heck is on there.."

You have NO idea :)

I was worried going from my old 4 GB model to a 2 GB model. Fortuna..."

I guess I should delete books I've read.

Though I wish the Kindle Fire let me organize the books the way my old Kindle did. Why they took away this basic feature is beyond me.

Perhaps for my 2017 Determination List I'll only put books that are already on my Kindle on my list.

Mkfs, it sounds as though Criminal made up for the other two. We saw Comedy of Errors years ago and we're glad we didn't read it first. I suspect that would have ruined a so-so evening entirely.

The City on the Edge of Forever: The Original Teleplay by Harlan Ellison
Originally I'd rated this 2/5, but in all fairness, I should put the rating up, maybe 3/5.

This is the famous (to ST:TOS fans) episode that Joan Collins played William Shatner's (aka Capt. James Tiberius Kirk) love interest. Loved and lost, no spoiler there knowing Kirk.
Harlan Ellison wrote the original screenplay for the episode, but it was rewritten several times between writing and the making of the TV episode.

Ellison indulges himself in a very long tirade regarding Gene Roddenberry, and the Star Trek Universe in general. His story was changed in ways he did not like or appreciate. But I think the thing that really stuck in his craw was that Roddenberry told some stories about the making of that screenplay/episode that were not true. In fact Roddenberry told them at every Convention and opportunity he had. I agree that was a crummy thing to do, but to hold on to that anger that strongly for over 50 years is just too much.

Then Ellison informs the reader that if they like the TV version better than the original screenplay they must be....I can't remember exactly what word he used, but my feeling was that he thought that person must be missing the intelligence to know what was good in life.

Sorry, Mr. Ellison, I liked the final TV version best.

Shaker by Scott Frank

I can't really give this a rating as I didn't finish it. Frank is a screenwriter, and this book reads like it. Which doesn't have to be bad, but this story was just too choppy for my taste, and obviously written with a movie in mind. Scene after scene, not a lot of cohesion.

I think he might have been trying to replicate something like Lawrence Block's Hit Man. Block's books though are witty, cynical without all the nastiness and he succeeds in making Keller (the hit man) a pretty nice fellow. You just know he has a good heart. Sounds like a contradiction, I know. But that's Lawrence Block for ya. :)

BTW, Frank did not succeed, he fell short by several football fields.

The Black House by Peter May 4/5

Murder mystery, atmospheric, northernmost Scottish Islands.
May is an expert at building suspense, and making a twisty and intricate story come alive. The land is as much a character as the humans and he shows the austerity and beauty of the area.

Definitely recommended.

That's all I managed last month, although I haven't done that much more this month...../sigh/

madrano wrote: "Petra, thanks for the introduction to Genesis and its ilk. As we've been visiting many ancient Native American sites we've come to again appreciate how rich the cultures Europeans met were.

My favorite novel by Charlotte Brontë is Villette, mostly set in France (or was it Belgium?). The main character was an interesting young woman and the story developed well. Fortunately my edition had translations for the numerous French phrase and sentences. I thought i'd pass the title on to you for consideration as a next Bronte novel. .."

One of the surprising mentions in Genesis was "Vancouver Island". It was only mentioned once and the People mentioned were Southern North American. I even looked to see if there was a Vancouver Island in the Caribean/South American region but nada. Therefore, the Native population must have traveled far distances.

Thanks for the recommendation of Villette. It's already on my TBR list but now I'll bump it up quicker. I want to read more of Bronte's works soon.

Cateline wrote: "The City on the Edge of Forever: The Original Teleplay by Harlan Ellison
Originally I'd rated this 2/5, but in all fairness, I should put the rating up, maybe 3/5.

Th..."

Thanks for sharing your October reads with us, Cateline.

All in all it seems you had a nice reading month.

Cateline wrote: "Ellison indulges himself in a very long tirade regarding Gene Roddenberry, and the Star Trek Universe in general."

I am somehow reminded of an Ellison essay titled "The Three Most Important Things In Life" (reproduced here for the curious) and his brief employment at Disney.

Mkfs wrote: "Cateline wrote: "Ellison indulges himself in a very long tirade regarding Gene Roddenberry, and the Star Trek Universe in general."

I am somehow reminded of an Ellison essay titled "The Three Most..."

I definitely remember that episode but not sure if I ever read the original story of Ellisons. It is possible but it has been several decades since I may have read it. I have all of Blish's books of Star Trek episodes and have read his book adaptation of the script which he says was a blend of Ellison's script and the final TV version.

Mkfs wrote: "Cateline wrote: "Ellison indulges himself in a very long tirade regarding Gene Roddenberry, and the Star Trek Universe in general."

I am somehow reminded of an Ellison essay titled "The Three Most..."

I bookmarked this to read. I read a few sentences but I have to go to work and I definitely want to finish it.

Mkfs wrote: "Cateline wrote: "Ellison indulges himself in a very long tirade regarding Gene Roddenberry, and the Star Trek Universe in general."

I am somehow reminded of an Ellison essay titled "The Three Most..."

Bloody hell.

Julie, the kindle version I have includes several versions. Including of course the original Ellison.

Petra wrote: "One of the surprising mentions in Genesis was "Vancouver Island". It was only mentioned once and the People mentioned were Southern North American...."

This is one of those neat facts can learn from historic novels that i like. Something is mentioned which seems unlikely, so we research & learn it is, in fact, the truth. Would you ever had learned about this without this series of books? I'm glad you shared that, Petra. It reminds me what i like about that genre.

Harlan Ellison is the first author whose works i liked very much but whose person i couldn't tolerate. Until that point, i figured if i liked the writing, i'd like the person. Not so in his case, as his egocentric personality was the highlight of his writing and interviews. Don't get me wrong, i think more authors are really like that but his was my first introduction to it, so it stung deeper, i suppose. Still, i like his writing.

Alias Reader wrote: ".... cucumber. Even at the play I saw Sunday when she takes the cucumber out to eat the audience reaction was confusion. Weird for sure. ...."

Alias, I was brought back to this conversation when I read:
"The brave Courier, in particular, is everywhere: looking after the beds, having wine poured down his throat by his dear brother the landlord, and picking up green cucumbers - always cucumbers; Heaven knows where he gets them - with which he walks about, one in each hand, like truncheons."

This is quoted from Charles Dickens' Pictures from Italy. It appears that cucumbers are a common snacking food throughout Europe?
LOL!

Petra wrote: This is quoted from Charles Dickens' Pictures from Italy. It appears that cucumbers are a common snacking food throughout Europe?
LOL! .."

:) Too funny. I guess it's a low calorie healthy snack. Though I don't think they have much taste without dressing.

Funny, we just used a mini cucumber to decorate a snowman's nose (no carrots on hand). :). It came in a package labeled "snacking cucumbers" though I don't know anyone who does anything but salad with them either.

Funny about the lowly cuke. I have a Chinese wok stir-fry dish i make with cucumbers and cantaloupe. Chicken is the protein. It's tasty but not something i made much, as DH doesn't like cukes. I know this group & you will want the recipe, so i'll add it to the recipe thread, ok?