Sci-Fi, fantasy and speculative Indie Authors Review discussion

Hi, this is Vickie, I'm currently reading the indie/self-pub sci-fi novel "Lamikorda", about an extraterrestrial species (the Alplai) allowing a million+ aliens (whom they call "Terai" - Terran!) settle on one of their planets. I think it deserves more discussion and comparison, so I'm setting this up to invite people to read it, ask questions, critique, compare.

The things I like about it so far:
1) There's a sense of realism and vivid description, but not so detailed in those descriptions to sideline the story. You really get a sense of being there.
2) The story begins from the Alplai viewpoint, then introduces Terai/Terran/human characters and their views.
3) Characters are very diverse in ethnicity, culture, religion, sexuality (in the first chapter, the chief scientist is shown to be gay and polyamorous) and ability (deaf Alplai interact with hearing ones using devices for translating speech and sign language; one deaf character runs a spaceport, another is Co-President of the Alplai government)
4) There are themes around the assumptions we make about culture, social evolution, and so on; the Alplai abandoned warfare over a thousand years before so one character wonders how an alien species could achieve space travel without first achieving that "stage of development"; the Alplai also have a hard time understanding Earth music, because we mix vocal and instrumental but they keep them separate; I'm sure more examples will come up!
5) Really great blend of "hard" and "soft" science/sci-fi; the Alplai have FTL "slipstream" travel and discuss how our "Ark" asteroid-ship works; but there's also discussions about language, culture and politics, which is a big part of how the author gives the story such a realistic feel to it.
6) The author constructed the Alplai's main language, Kiitra, as well as some more notes on the other languages including the sign language that deaf Alplai use; from what I see on the Kiitra language blogsite (http://kiitralanguage.wordpress.com) there's enough structure and vocabulary to have working conversations in real-life. So will Klingon find Kiitra a competitor?

So I'm going to invite the author and the other people who note reading and reviewing this to join, and I hope the rest of the people in this group will. I think this is a great novel to have discussions around!!

Just joined, looking forward to hearing from other people. I would suggest, for the sake of those who may be in the process, that commenters put "spoiler alert" at the top if they mention some element that comes up later in the story.

Eric wrote: "Just joined, looking forward to hearing from other people. I would suggest, for the sake of those who may be in the process, that commenters put "spoiler alert" at the top if they mention some elem..."

Like that idea, Eric. Thanks!

Riikhaa, emaijiit! Yup, even into Kiitra language.

One question (POSSIBLE SPOILER ALERT) : Can anybody help me understand the divergent political parties/ideologies of the Alplai? I know the first big division is "traditionalist" and "conversionist" but I'm not sure I understand the latter term, or the other parties and how they evolved.

Hi Vickie,

We have just started a Book of The Month club which has been fairly successful. I'll be sending out group emails when it's time for nominations again. You're free to nominate it as a group read for book of the month if you like?

We focus entirely on indie pub books in our book club with a view to reviewing and discussing them, basically spreading the word. Check out the Book of the month folder forore details. We're currently reading Ship of Storms by Ken Doggett.

Howdy, folks:

This is D.R. Merrill, author of Lamikorda. Many thanks to Vickie for starting this thread. I also have a website for promoting the book: http://lamikorda.wordpress.com

Answering Amy's questions on Alplai politics: The term "Conversionist" is a translation of the Kiitra word gajana, referring to change that occurs by some sort of "shift" or "conversion"; in this case, the early Conversionists sought to shift power from oligarchical rulers towards permanent legislative assemblies, thus "converting" government to what resembled parliamentary democracy.

Those who initially opposed them wanted to maintain "traditional" (diirdezna)forms of government, hence their adopting the moniker of Traditionalist. Eventually two more groups split off from the Conversionists: the Radicals (ezrhadaat), who favored strong local government, and the Egalitarians (ajaldraat), who had begun by advocating an expanded electorate and then greater civil liberties/rights.

The biggest change after this was when the Conversionists and Traditionalists became more entrenched in their views, causing both a rise of independents being elected and moderates from both parties splitting off into new parties. The new parties and many independents united into a new major party, the "Pragmatists" (Beluugaat), who supported a balance between executive and legislative branches. Since then, the Alplai multiparty system has involved shifting coalitions of various parties, with Pragmatists almost always involved.

In one conversation in the book, a character notes that, just as many humans would consider "all Alplai parties as socialist" (or perhaps distributist or Keynesian) the Alplai would consider all Terai as being Pragmatist. This is because of a difference on points of dispute versus what might be called "settled questions"; while Terran "liberal democracy" would consider a balance of power between executive and legislative branches a settled question, and debate how much government would be involved in assuring a decent standard of living for its citizens, this is reversed among the Alplai. And this is reflected in the very beginning, with considerable resources devoted to help the Terai start life anew in Totrana's Eastern Sector.

Greetings:

Vickie, I've read your latest update, would agree that immigration/minorities is a big theme here. See some parallels with the old TV series "Alien Nation" (with the Newcomers/Tenctonese as the minority arriving on near-future Earth).

That in turn raises the question of whether this would constitute a utopian novel. If it were, then would you have groups like AZO ("Alplai [are] first") in response to the arrival of an alien race? In my review, I compared the Alplai system to what's been called the "Nordic system" of social-democracy (Sweden, Norway, Denmark) so if DRM was indeed modeling on that, perhaps he's also including similar tensions around immigration and multiculturalism.

What I find interesting is Ganak's way of advocating for the Terai. He has no problem using a variety of tactics, even confronting people in his own party, and yet he's not a "march in the streets" protester. I wonder if that has to do with his own personal attitudes or beliefs, and if so how much is that a reflection of the author's.

Eric wrote: "Greetings: Vickie, I've read your latest update, would agree that immigration/minorities is a big theme here. See some parallels with the old TV series "Alien Nation" (with the Newcomers/Tenctones..."

Yes, I've noticed some similarities with the Alien Nation series. One thing I also noticed is that there are about as many similarities with Alplaa and the Alplai to Earth/humans as there are differences. Sometimes the author credits evolutionary convergence, but I'm wondering about the literary usages. Is it so the reader can more readily identify with the Alplai characters? Does it help with the thematic elements about diverse groups finding ways to get along by realizing their/our commonalities?

Hi, stayed up late finishing YAY!! :)
I'll have a thorough review later, gave this FIVE STARS!

Update: I finished the full review, if you haven't seen it yet. Take a peek!

Since I wrote my review, I was talking with a friend aboutLamikorda and she made this comment that it sounded like a "White Savior" story, where it's made to look like one lone white/majority person is using their power and influence to change things. So she's seeing Ganak as the WS in this story.

In the first place, there's more involved than Ganak using his influence. There are other Alplai who work to make things better, and the Terai also come together to bring about political and social change on their behalf.

I have to wonder also about this trope, not just because it's an incredible generalization, but because it raises questions about real-life allies for equality (racial, gender, LGBTQ). Do we want a world where white people didn't advocate for abolishing slavery or guaranteeing civil rights? Or where there were no men like John Stuart Mill or Frederick Douglass supporting women's suffrage and equality? Or straight people supporting LGBTQ rights including marriage equality?

Personally, I don't see Ganak as the ET equivalent of a "White Savior" but more a person with power and privilege who allies himself with a new minority, while that minority does its own work as well to achieve equity. Still, it's a good question to discuss in books of this kind.

What do other people think?

Vickie wrote: "Since I wrote my review, I was talking with a friend aboutLamikorda and she made this comment that it sounded like a "White Savior" story, where it's made to look like one lone whit..."

Vickie: Love the questions you raise in the third paragraph above. I think that's a question the author is raising as a theme - what should people in majority/privileged positions do in such situations?

I wonder about the "white slavery narrative" theory myself. Sometimes I think some "critical theorists" are basically trying to put down any attempt by non-minority folks to address minority concerns. In one case, an academic had written a book "analyzing" the racism in Star Trek TOS. One part was where he criticized having Sulu running through the halls with a fencing epee, because it showed him to be assimilated to the majority culture; an interviewer raised the point that, if he'd been using a samurai sword, then the writers would be criticized for perpetuating a racial stereotype, and this professor really didn't have an answer. I also noticed that nowhere in this guy's critique was there an acknowledgement of context, that the series was groundbreaking in its day for portraying a diverse crew.

Another was a short story by law professor Derrick Bell; he posited that aliens would arrive with some great technology, and allow humans to have it if we handed over all African-Americans. Huh??? Aside from the hard-scifi question of why a species with such technology would need anything from us, there's a whole host of underlying assumptions on Bell's part.

A big element of the story is that one of the Alplai political parties is actually willing to stand down from elections and throw its support to the Terai interest party. Now that sounds more "white-savior"-ish than anything Ganak and Gii'ak are willing and able to do.

Vickie wrote: "Since I wrote my review, I was talking with a friend aboutLamikorda and she made this comment that it sounded like a "White Savior" story, where it's made to look like one lone whit..."

Degjaa, Vikii en Erik. Good discussion. IMO there's considerable subjectivity around the concept of the WSN, so what one person perceives to be as such, another might be unsure. Is a character a "savior" if he/she/ze isn't the only privileged person sticking their necks out for an oppressed/marginalized group? (Remember that Gii'ak, Zuuranesh and other Alplai characters work independently for Terai rights) Also, Vickie brings up an excellent point of whether criticism of stories for supposedly upholding this narrative might only serve to discourage both narratives where privileged allies work to overcome inequities, and the inspiration of real-life examples.

In terms of Lamikorda, I'm sure we could discuss and question Commissioner Ganak's motivations for fighting anti-Terai discrimination. Is he being paternalistic, or is he genuinely concerned with Terai (and other people's) dignity and well-being? Does the motivation matter, just so long as he succeeds? Does his position in the Traditionalist party make it easier for him to do what he does?

SPOILER ALERT - Here's another point related to progressive views of literature and media ... You may not have noticed that Lamikorda passes the Bechdel test! Yup, there's a section where Deidre MacPherson is in her new quarters in the Southwest Point facility, and she's talking with another Terai woman, but not about men.

Hey, D.R. Merrill! Did you plan that, or were you not aware of that?

Amy wrote: "SPOILER ALERT - Here's another point related to progressive views of literature and media ... You may not have noticed that Lamikorda passes the Bechdel test! Yup, there's a section..."

Riikhaa, Eimii. Yes, I was aware of the Bechdel test, but I hadn't used it to plan out that scene. Just a happy coincidence.

As to the "white savior narrative", which is cited more frequently in film, there are two variations:
1) the minority is incapable of saving themselves, so they need a powerful majority person to do so;
2) minorities are oppressed by "bad" members of the majority class, while achieving freedom through the offices of "good" majority people.

With that in mind, I think another counter-critique of the WSN cliché is that it relies on the antiquated "Great Man" theory of history. Given that both novels and films rely heavily on individual protagonists (and antagonists), it's thus understandable that it persists. I did my best to show that the efforts towards social equity for the Terai were not the work of any single individual. For that matter, why not consider the fellow elected to lead the Terai interest party as a "savior"? Then again, he was preceded by the people who actually organized the party, as well as another organization ...

I think it's an important question to ask at what point do we draw the line between a character being a powerful ally or catalyst for change, and being a "white savior". For me, the line is when the oppressed or marginalized group is portrayed as being without the resources (be it intelligence, will, social/political power, et cetera) to achieve any sort of progress on their own. That being said, it would thus not only be fair to question whether Lamikorda is an example of WSN, but whether other works so labeled indeed deserve such.

Greetings, all:

I notice Amy and Vickie are into using Kiitra, the language that DRM invented for the novel. It's an interesting derivative work, certainly gives readers an added dimension of realism.

One way in which I think it highlights the themes of the novel is how language paradoxically can serve as both a connection between people and a barrier between different groups. Kiitra is the central Alplai language, and is taught to the Terai very soon. The Alplai often mention how difficult it is for them to speak Terai languages, although some make an effort to say a few words or phrases here and there.

I'm also thinking of the hypothesis that language shapes the way people think. How do folks feel Kiitra shapes Alplai thinking, and perhaps the cultural development of Terai settlers and their descendants?

Eric wrote: "Greetings, all:

I notice Amy and Vickie are into using Kiitra, the language that DRM invented for the novel. It's an interesting derivative work, certainly gives readers an added dimension of real..."

Great topic, Eric! Having Kiitra developed and in print there really got me feeling like I was as "immersed" as the Terai settlers. I was intrigued that they have multiple words for "yes" and "no" depending on strength of certainty, and gender-neutral alternatives to "he/she" and even "sir/madam". I think the hypothesis you're referring to is Sapir-Worf (anyone, help me out?) and if Kiitra does shape people's thinking I get the feeling it would demand more precision and clarity than English, especially when it's so regular and logically structured (but even that's explained by the backstory on the website http://kiitralanguage.wordpress.com).

Anyone else?

Eric, the idea that a language can simultaneously facilitate and obstruct communication is what philosophers call a "code-talker paradox".

As to whether language shapes thinking (the so-called "Sapir-Whorf hypothesis" -- the linguists named didn't actually formulate it themselves), or reflects the thinking of the people who shaped the language, is one of the great "chicken-and-egg" debates of philosophy and social science.

Meanwhile ... The host group for this discussion list is looking for nominations for their July/August read. Please contact moderator J.A. and put in a plug forLamikorda!

DRM: Degjaa zura!

So something else I'd like to talk about. Usually in human/alien encounter stories, there's often a big discrepancy in technology, one species being incredibly advanced and the other "primitive" or "backward" - but not here. The Alplai do seem more advanced, but much of their technology is comparable to our own.

1) Housing and construction are comparable, the big difference being that the Alplai tend to use prefab units much more.

2) Medicine has some advances, but it's not like they can regenerate limbs and things; remember there's a scientist confined to a wheelchair, and mention that they still have a sizable deaf community.

3) Food production, communications and many others also seem comparable or just slightly ahead of us instead of "leaps and bounds"

I'm wondering if there's a reason for this. Is it so the tech doesn't get too much in the way of the story?

Riikhaa, emaijiit. A sign of the impact of this book ...

With all the panic about Ebola, my mind flashed back to the chapters where Totrana fever breaks out. Lots of panic then, even causing Alplai zon okhluu to be formed. Another way sci-fi predicts the future?

Amy, there have historically been lots of cases where people panic over a "new" disease, especially when it's linked to some "outside" group. HIV is one that comes to mind. But yes, the disproportionate panic you and I see around Ebola reminds me of what DRM wrote about in Lamikorda around Totrana pneumonic fever.

Here's another question that's been in my mind! Does anyone find Terran parallels to the Alplai religions? Here's what I'm reading:

Shalranai -- resembles Eastern traditions (Buddhism, Taoism)
Totranai -- secular humanism (the most obvious IMO)
Sadroshai -- really hard, polytheistic like pagan religions, but I see strong elements with Islam
Ajamara -- again a mix, devotion to figure like primitive Christianity, but organized more like a pre-Christian folk religion
Murai -- definitely resembles Christianity, somewhat evangelical?

Interesting that you have a society where not just religion but religious pluralism seems flourishing. Utopian ideal? Love to hear other people's thoughts on this.

Vickie wrote: "Here's another question that's been in my mind! Does anyone find Terran parallels to the Alplai religions?

Well, I agree a good deal with the parallels you drew, but IMNSHO the religions DRM constructed obviously mix various elements. So yes, Shalaran's teachings resemble that of Eastern traditions, but the understanding of the strhaan has some elements of Process Theology; his life story is also unlike any Earth prophet or messiah (peasant to warrior to small landowner to spiritual teacher).

I do see some parallels between Sadarosh and Mohammed, even with having four gods representing the traditional elements, and the Murai revival like an evangelical Christian movement. The Konarai's Ajamara reminds me not only of Jesus, but Handsome Lake of the Seneca.

Hey there! J.A., one of the mods of this group (Sci-Fi, fantasy & spec indie) is taking nominations for Book of the Month Nov/Dec 2014. Put your plugs in for Lamikorda

Hey everyone! Lamikorda is now on the ballot for the Indie Sci-Fi group's November/December Book of the Month! Cast your votes!!

Vickie wrote: "Hey everyone! Lamikorda is now on the ballot for the Indie Sci-Fi group's November/December Book of the Month! Cast your votes!!"

Done. Hope at least it prompts more people to read it.

Vickie wrote: "Hey everyone! Lamikorda is now on the ballot for the Indie Sci-Fi group's November/December Book of the Month! Cast your votes!!"

I just checked the poll results. Lamikorda won in the Sci-Fi category, with 50 percent of the votes!! :)