The Folly Irregulars discussion

Go nuts! Talk details.

I did it! I finished the book yesterday evening. And I have to say "WOW!!!". Book one is still my favourite in the series so far, but this comes really close. Definetly ★★★★★!

It was just brilliant. The build up, how those different investigations run together one after the other and finally all point towards the Faceless Man, how the story ends with a bang, literally and figurativly. Awesom.

And in retrospective, after having read the whole book, I've to say you were right Carol, if one knows where to look the signs where there and it wasn't quite that surprising what Lesley did in the end. Like when she send Zach and the Quiet People away and then said "Less People to worry about.". That was kind of obvious in retrospect.

Oh, and about the Faceless Man: Could he be have some ties to Nightingale, maybe someone from Nightingale's past? On the roof, when Peters asks him about the mask he said that he was wearing it because he had been expecting Nightingale. Maybe he was never one of the Little Crocodiles or maybe some turned down would be apprentice. It is kind of suspicios that he becomes active again the moment Nightingale took on a new apprentice.
And I'm still not totally convinced he is a man. For some time I had pegged Varvara as the Faceless Man, but since she was in custody when Peter confronted the Faceless Man on the roof she couldn't be him.

Glad you enjoyed it! For me, it was a book that I liked much better the second time through, perhaps because I am not good at taking my time, and could see where things started to come together.

I agree with your thoughts that retrospectively, one can see some changes in Leslie behavior. I love how subtle Aaronovich was about it.

At this point, I think we think the FM is a prodigy of the elderly dude who died, who was being taken care of by Varvara. Of course, we could be wrong.

Peter is involved in a lot of destruction! I can't remember--was there anything destroyed in Moon Over Soho? Rivers--the market, the opera house; Whispers, the subway; Broken Homes, the building. I think it has become a running joke by this part.

Didn't you just cry over Sky and then Nikki's reaction? I certainly did.

I loved his moment of triumph when he collared the FM and then gets tasered. It felt like such genuine emotion/satisfaction/triumph on his part. What a fall!

Well, in Moon Over Soho he hijacked the ambulancen and goes of on a mad race towards the Thamse to save Ash. Lots of property damage included. Mostly cars and stuff.

That scene with Sky and Nicky was really hard. And Peters reaction to it, too. Strange though how distanced Lesley was. And how easily she blamed Nicky for that guys death.
I mean, we've seen Peter conjuring up water ball for almost the whole book. So it would seem beyond the capabilty of some wizard to kill in such a way.
I had the thought that it might have been the Faceless Man to drive Lesley further away from Peter and the Rivers and all those other supernatural types. I mean, he is a manipulative bastard. And I sometimes got the feeling that Lesley was kind of afraid of them. With all their power and stuff. Not unlikely given her history. Even though she appreciates it that they don't seem to care about her face.

Ah yes, the ambulance!

Agree with Leslie's distance. I thought it odd at the time. She was more concerned about the punishment than the crime. Agree as well--I don't know that we really had a solution to the perpetrator's death. Sure, could have been Nicky. Could also have been FM. Her argument that he goes big or small just seemed... weird. What, drowning wasn't odd enough?

Really think the characterization of Leslie was great. You can see how she goes from extremely admirable in Rivers to well, kind of understanding her trip to The Dark Side in this one.

Carol. wrote: Didn't you just cry over Sky and then Nikki's reaction? I certainly did.

I loved his moment of triumph when he collared the FM and then gets tasered. It felt like such genuine emotion/satisfaction/triumph on his part. What a fall!"

Yes yes yes! We only knew sky for a little while but her death was devastating!

And I loved how Peter just jumped off a building haha. His reasoning was pretty sound though right?!

I feel like I'd enjoy this more upon second read line you did Carol, just so I could see the various threads coalesce a little better.

As far as Lesley's motives... Her wanting her face back fits but I can't help feeling there's more to it...

Philip, the flow of these books is so interesting to me--I don't know if it's because how I read plot-driven books--but I enjoyed/understood all of them even more on the second read. Of course, that's supposing one has time for second reads. :)

I feel like Leslie has multiple motives as well, and think Miriam makes some excellent speculations on them, but I think that's in the "Leslie" thread.

Is it a safe thread to look at without spoiling myself?

Nope.

Okay I'll resist the urge to peek.

It's taken me this long to have more to say than WTF?!!! about the betrayal. I listened to this book, and the way K H-S emotes Peter's confusion, hurt and anger after through subtle voice work--wow! Wow!

I'm still at the point where I'm hoping it's all some clever plan, and not just a betrayal.
And the raw pain K H-S had in his voice for Nikki at Sky's death, I was crying.

Right??? The reading brought so much more to it for me. I don't remember being that moved when I read it. I mean, in shock, for sure, but not teary (which I was when I listened). I was so struck by his talent--that absolute triumph when Peter cuffs the FM--and then when Leslie tasers him. So brilliant.

I think we're all wondering if it is a deep plan of Leslie's, that maybe she's pretending to go to the other side (or nominally going to the 'other side') so that she can help orchestrate the FM's fall.

I'm so hoping for deep plan, and not that she's gone evil.

I'm re-reading this again. :)

So where the heck did Toby get to for 9 hours after Skygarden collapsed?

I think Ben forgot about Toby for a while.

Understandable. But where did Toby go? Peter points out that it's only about an hour's walk from Elephant & Castle to Russell Square.

My personal theory is that the Thames girls took him to Wapping to Mama Thames' house for some pampering before taking him home.

I like the idea that the Thames women pampered Toby :)

Re-listening. Sigh. So much thinking going on, wondering about hints with Leslie. Remember that staff issue and using it as a 'lure?' I wonder if she made contact with the FM when she was at the Fae Club dropping hints about staffs? Peter points out that it was a silly lure when they discover the Skygarden magic-collector. It also casts yet another light on the cutting of Sky's trees--Leslie is all, 'it's just trees, Peter,' making me wonder if she thought of it/knew of it.

I was horrified by the tree killing, and by Leslie's dismissive attitude to it.

yes, absolutely agree. Granted, she didn't seem to know about Sky, right? Or did she? I assumed she hadn't been told about Sky yet.

yes, absolutely agree. Granted, she didn't seem to know about Sky, right? Or did she? I assumed she hadn't been told about Sky yet.

I can't remember if she knew about Sky at that point. But I remember her less compassionate take in general about the Demi-monde and other unusual beings.

yes, very much less than compassionate. I think she just stopped short of calling them, 'things' in the bit I just listened to.

Yes, I vaguely remember her ‘yuck! Non-humans!’ attitude.

All of which pretty much points to her being in FM's pocket. As we later discover he's a racist bastard.

Ok, at the scene in the dog barn. Leslie keeps saying, “Varvara, call your boss..., call your boss.” So on re-read, I’m sure she’s swapped alligence, more or less, by then. Wonder if she and Nightingale cooked this up and gave Peter the staff excuse?

Now that's an interesting thought.

I don't think so. Nightingale was too shocked when Peter told him what Lesley had done.

Makes you wonder.

Has Nightingale been playing a *very* long game, in that he *knew* (or at least strongly *suspected*) that Lesley would be suborned by the Faceless Man?

I really feel like there's an angle where he did, or suspected, or colluded.

I felt that Nightingale was surprised by Leslie's defection to the dark side. Though, I also felt that he was a little prepared for Leslie not to work out; not sure exactly why, even though he was also impressed with how Leslie was taking to his training.

I share your perception, Lata, of the feeling that he was 'a little prepared for Leslie not to work out;' though I can't say precisely why. It may be Peter's own bias towards his own activities, so that we rarely know what she's up to.

In a previous book, Aaronovitch hinted that Lady Tyeburn might someday make a power grab for her mother’s position. Does anyone think she might count the Faceless Man as an asset in that potential struggle, however foolishly?

I don't think so, based on her scorn for the Little Crocodiles, and the Faceless Man's anti-magical being bigotry.

Lata wrote: "I don't think so, based on her scorn for the Little Crocodiles, and the Faceless Man's anti-magical being bigotry."

Not so much "anti-magical being bigotry", more your average "white people are better than everyone else" sort of bigotry.

Ronnie wrote: "Not so much "anti-magical being bigotry", more your average "white people are better than everyone else" sort of bigotry. "

Wait, what? I might not have had enough caffeine here, but I always thought Lady Ty was a bit of a class-ist. Isn't she also dark-skinned, which would rule her out of the 'white-people are better' bigotry? I think Lady Ty is the example of assimilation into Law and Order; she wants to be a stakeholder/decision-maker and trust herself the most.

Apologies, my error, ignore me. I thought you were talking about the Faceless Man.

*smacks self on wrist* Stupid boy.

The Faceless Man is definitely a white supremacist, but I don’t see him passing up a useful asset to further his own ends.

I agree that Fm also is a racist. I definitely got that from each of his conversations/confrontations with Peter.

Ronnie wrote: "Apologies, my error, ignore me. I thought you were talking about the Faceless Man.

*smacks self on wrist* Stupid boy."

Ha! Sorry, I read that in relation to Lady Ty, not F.M. I concur that he is not only against the proles, but also people of color. He's very much days-of-colonization-type British, I think.

Anyone else wondering what is behind the door in the basement of the Folly? The one Nightingale sends Peter to check on upon Lesley's betrayal? Could it be the Black Library?

I forgot about that closed door. Hmmm, I'll probably have to start a relisten soonish to the audiobooks.

Oooh, Mark, I like the way you think. I remember the door (I recently re-listened) and the urgency with which Peter was dispatched to the Folly. Which actually put to bed my own wonderings on if Leslie was engaged in a complicated, N.-approved double-cross, because otherwise N. wouldn't have cared so much.

More than just checking that Lesley hadn't nicked anything while Nightingale's back was turned?

Carol. wrote: "Oooh, Mark, I like the way you think. I remember the door (I recently re-listened) and the urgency with which Peter was dispatched to the Folly. Which actually put to bed my own wonderings on if Le..."


My thoughts exactly. The Black Library is the most obvious candidate as it's the most notable MacGuffin (for want of a better word) in the series. The Demon Trap style locking mechanism suggests its something of great importance too.

Interestingly it's suggested that Molly has never ventured down the corridor either - could this be under Nightingale's instruction, or because she is afraid to (in the same way she is afraid to venture outside the Folly). Could that hint at something else entirely?

Molly. Oh, Molly. I think Ben likes to be vague and hinty but doesn't have really any idea where the fae fit in yet. Maybe in the next arc :)

An upcoming comic/graphic novel, "The Fey and the Furious" will hopefully expand on the Fae/

I want more info on Molly! :)