The Folly Irregulars discussion

Spoil away. Let us talk details.

Oh dear, just found thus group :D

I'm so glad Beverly's back!

Welcome, Evelina!

I was sooooo furious at the ending! Like, like.. it was so.. it was just cut short! And nothing was explained. Like whose kid the second gurl really was (I mean, who ELSE'S kid she is), also, what did they do about the whole huuuge tqo kid situation... nothing about that! It was so abrupt. There was more, but I'd have to check my review for that. What did you think?

The second girl was the real Nicole while the first one, the one everybody thought to be Nicole, was some kind of changeling, probably a faerie.
Peter's chat with the elder halfsister is crutial to understanding this. Though I have to admit I suspected this rather early on. I was much more intrigued by the question who or what Melissa is. My knowledge of Ancient Greek came in handy there.

My favourite scene though was Peter discussing the technicalities of what exactly has happend after he and Bev "spawned" that river god. I was laughing so hard. This was so typical Peter.

Miriam wrote: "The second girl was the real Nicole while the first one, the one everybody thought to be Nicole, was some kind of changeling, probably a faerie.
Peter's chat with the elder halfsister is crutial t..."

I was laughing, too!

Miriam wrote: "The second girl was the real Nicole while the first one, the one everybody thought to be Nicole, was some kind of changeling, probably a faerie.
Peter's chat with the elder halfsister is crutial t..."

Yes, of course, I know that they were halfsisters and the real one was the second one. BUT! Whose was the fae one? Who did that guy sleep with, basically? I refuse to think that "it's not important". It totally is!

As for the beekeeper's daughter, NOTHING was told either. There was sort of a promise of telling us who she was, but then nothing was revealed. She wasn't even followed up on. Build it all up like that, and then go nowhere with it..? I mean, it seems you figured out what or who she was, but I still think it's sloppy writing to not follow it up like that. Not all of us have Ancient Greek knowledge. And even if we would, some sort of tie-in or mention of it would be nice.

And not mentioning what happens to the second girl was annoying too. I mean, the family suddenly has an evil twin, basically. Where did it come from? Whose is it? How would the family dynamics even carry on when everyone makes the clear connection that the dad has been sleeping with anything, woodland creatures included? The lack of any mention of this BIG thing was also disappointing for me. I wanted to see the chaos ensue :D

From what I gathered, the "evil twin" the real Nicole, originally human, but now changed due to her life with the faries for eleven years. Thast why she was able to cast those glamours on her mother. Peter and Bev took her with them and gave her to one Bev's siters, Fleet I think, as a foster child, because she obviously could not stay with her human family.

Obviously the father not only f***ed the babysitter (which means that also the other missing girl could be Nicole's halfsister") but seemingly some fairies, too. So maybe the farie queen decided to swap the kids when she got the chance.

Evelina | AvalinahsBooks wrote: "I mean, it seems you figured out what or who she was, but I still think it's sloppy writing to not follow it up like that. Not all of us have Ancient Greek knowledge. And even if we would, some sort of tie-in or mention of it would be nice."

It was the name, that gave her away. "Melissa" means "honey bee" in ancient greek. And with all that bee's there and her obviously being able to communicate with them I figured she might be some kind of bee spirit similar to the rivers.

I don't think all those open threads remaining at the end of "Foxglove Summer" are due to "sloppy writing" I think he left them open intentionally. This book was so out of everything that has happend in the series before, that I think there will be some follow up in later books.

Like the whole deal with Mr. Punch suddenly comes up again in "The Hanging Tree". So Foxeglove Summer cleared up some things. Especially it illustrates what Zach meant, when he said Lesley was changed by magic. (view spoiler)[Which, come to think of it, sheds a whole new light on the missing vestigia at Tyburns House in "The Hanging Tree". (hide spoiler)]

The more I get into this series, the more I think, it has to be read several times, to really grasp all of it.

They never 'gave' her to anyone. That's the problem. They just talked about it. IN TWO SENTENCES. Nobody actually told us what really happened. As if you can just take a child that simply, without following up with the police? Or the fact that the mother knew that there was a second one? They never even talked about this. They were just discussing "oh, we'll just take her there".

Ah, interesting about Melissa! But still such a pity that he never summed up what she was.

Hm, you could have a point. But I largely doubt the fact that he'll come back to it because he usually doesn't really come back to these things in other books.. but, I wonder? Maybe you're right.

Also, what happened to that girl who randomly learned to cast the light spell in one of the first books? I just randomly remembered her. Which was the last book she was mentioned in? I wonder if she'll be around, I was really curious about her.

Ah, please no spoilers about The Hanging Tree :/ this is the Foxglove thread! I have not read the Hanging Tree yet! Shouldn't have told me Punch reappears :/ not clicking the spoiler just in case.

That girl with the werelight in the second book was Lesley. And she features pretty heavy in the following books.

Not THAT girl... I'm not stupid :D there was this teenage girl from his he village following him around. Maybe she didn't make a werelight, but she did hang around. I think she was black, maybe a cousin? That's all I can remember.

That was Abigail. She appeared first in Whispers Underground. Then again during the Spring Court in Broken Homes and will feature prominently in the upcoming novella "The furthest Station" - at least that's what the teaser text suggested.

And about "Original Nicole" from Foxglove Summer: Nicole's mother said that she did not care which of the girls was biologically her daughter, she wanted the "first Nicole" back, not the real Nicole that came back in the middle. And since that girl technically not existed - since the mother claimed the other girl as her daughter - Peter had to take responsibillity for her. And Bev correctly pointed out that they couldn't hand her over to social services with her abillity to cast glamours. Hence the "Fleet Solution".

And I don't think that was the last we have heared about the faeries. So she might appear again in later books. Like the whole Mr. Punch angle. He is not really coming back - I think I used the wrong word there - but what happend in book one is elaborated a bit further in "Hanging Tree."

Also I think Foxglove Summer is used to show more about that "Magic is coming back" theme that features strongly through out the book.

I'm pretty sure Aaronovitch doesn't want a series where he explains every little thing. Kind of like real life--we understand more as we gather more information--but sometimes we never learned all the 'whys.'

I don't think Aaronovitch meant to explain the beekeeper/former wizard's 'daughter' in any great detail. Although it left me with unsatisfied curiosity, it was consistent with the storytelling--Bev told him that people need to have their secrets, especially because Peter is a representative of the Folly. I do appreciate its inclusion, however, because it shows that there is a lot of magic/beings in the world and that the Folly doesn't know everything.

I was confused too at the end of Foxglove Summer, but I blamed some of it on my tendency to read fast at the end. I understood better when I went through the second time, listening to Holdbrook-Smith, but not enough to remember details.

I totally agree with you, Carol. Plus, we should keep in mind, that we only will read, what Peter knows and learns and sees. So, what he doesn't know or doesn't realize will not be told in the books. And I really like it, that Aaronovitch stays true to Peters perspective.

Agreed, Carole. and Miriam.

I don't know, if seems that he explained everything in detail in all other books. This ending still does not satisfy me. The amount of time spent on "nothing happening" and "investigation" doesn't match up to the amount of time spent on the actual ending. Like, so much text is meant for those first two parts, that it seems weird that another big part is just a few pages. That's just what I mean.

Well, I hope they will return to both the fae/non-fae girl (however you want to call her) and Abigail in the next one. I miss Abigail :<

Evelina | AvalinahsBooks wrote: "Well, I hope they will return to both the fae/non-fae girl (however you want to call her) and Abigail in the next one. I miss Abigail :< ."

I think he will. Not so much in Hanging Tree, it focuses more around the Rivers and takes up the Faceless Man story arc once again, but I think in later books. Maybe in the 7th book. Since Peter remarked on the similarity between the Fae Queen and Molly I'm very sure that Peter will do some of his famous "research" in that department. Hopefully not by trying to explode them like he did with the calculators. *lol*

Have you read the graphic novels? Maybe some of your questions are answered there. I remember that some of the things Peter only notes in passing in the novels get some "screen time" there.

Also, there are some short stories that where published in the special "Waterstones edition" in Britain (and sadly only there because Waterstones is a huge book shop chain in Britain where Aaronovitch used to work), that might give some mor insight to some of those "open threads" (List here). I haven't read any of them either besides "The Home Crowed Advantage", which is for free in Aaronovitch's blog, but I'm hoping there will be a short story collection soon.

The Furthest Station is due for release some time this fall and there we should meet some of the characters form Whispers Underground again, most notably Abigail and Kumar.

Evelina | AvalinahsBooks wrote: "I don't know, if seems that he explained everything in detail in all other books. This ending still does not satisfy me. The amount of time spent on "nothing happening" and "investigation" doesn't ..."

I agree, to me the ending felt rushed, and out of line with the beginning, both mystically and in terms of pacing. To end with stealing Peter back from the Fae after he had made his bargain seems like there should be more wrap-up/discussion around that topic, and you are right, I didn't feel like the girls got the resolution they needed at all.

This was such an interesting book because so much was brought up that didn't have much to do with the plot. Although, like I said earlier, I understood the bees being involved on the second go-through bc they were able to help pinpoint the Fae locations.

I just wished that Beverley had told Peter what he was getting into when they spawned the river god. Surely he should be informed before doing something so big and (as Beverley indicated that she knew re: son) important to him?

Danielle wrote: "I just wished that Beverley had told Peter what he was getting into when they spawned the river god. Surely he should be informed before doing something so big and (as Beverley indicated that she k..."

As a reader, I agree it would have been nice if Beverly had said something, but she's also a powerful river spirit and so far none of the supernatural beings have been too forthcoming about details.

Danielle, I agree--seems a breach of trust, right? But I also agree with Lata--the Rivers (and everyone else) tries to keep Peter on a need-to-know basis.

You're right, it is in keeping with how the Rivers are! I guess I just see it as a lack of consent. That's one of the reasons that no matter how much I love Beverley (and I do really love Beverley), I hope that she and Peter don't end up together for the long-term. The power imbalance is too big.

You're right; Peter was consenting to sex, but not to what Beverly had planned.

Danielle wrote: " I hope that she and Peter don't end up together for the long-term. The power imbalance is too big."

Interesting! I don't know that i have an opinion one way or the other as far as them getting together, but I like that it gives us more insight/reason for insight into the Rivers in general. I also like that the storyline isn't ever overtly concerned about finding Peter a new ladyfriend (if he wasn't in a relationship with Bev).

I kind of like them being together in the way that they are. Even though they have different origins that is actually what I like about their relationship. Bev is obviously not sharing everything she is but I guess to an extent she can't, Riverness and all. Making the choice for each other makes me feel good, because it seems to involve trust nevertheless and sharing a path together, even if there are differences (in power, thaumaturgical understanding etc)

I agree with you, Evelina, that it was frustrating how everything just ended. It totally caught me off guard. I was listening to it and couldn't believe the story ended when it did. It was pretty much build, build, build until the last page and then everything was resolved all of a sudden.

As far as things not being explained or followed up on, I feel like I've noticed that pattern throughout the books. There was definitely some of that here but I didn't think as much as in previous books. I get what everyone is saying about how it's more true to actual police work and we're just following Peter's consciousness throughout the experience. Call me selfish but it's just a little frustrating for me as a reader not to have everything explained and to have hanging plot threads. :)

Anyway, I really enjoyed this one, maybe even my favorite so far. I love Beverley and I enjoy their relationship, especially because she doesn't feel like the "required female love interest." She's really only featured prominently in this book. I don't think she even made an appearance in 2 and 3 besides being mentioned? She and Peter have their thing and they work well together and while their relationship definitely moved forward in this book it's still far from traditional. Mostly I just love spunk. :)

I re-read Foxglove Summer at the weekend, and something struck me, thanks to the Rivers of London loving policemen of London (explanation elsewhere).

Lesley knows what Peter is doing in Herefordshire and Peter points out to the cop investigating that Leslie has access into their secure system.

It has to be someone high up. I think I agree with the cops I met. It's that worm Folsum. He's a racist (think back to the original book) yet he's in Lady Ty's pocket (allegedly).

I reckon the copper was right. Folsum is The Faceless Man's lackey.

Interesting idea. When I reread in the new year, I’m going to be paying attention to things more closely.

Re-reading yet again and a thought struck me.

Does anyone else think Hugh Oswald was an associate of the original Faceless Man, Albert Woodville-Gentle?

There is no mention of a wife, or children, yet Hugh has a "grand-daugher" who is obviously Fae in nature, being, apparently, part bee! Or a bee in human form! Either way there was obviously some serious magic involved in her "birth".

Hmmm, interesting thought. But would the evil magicians want to have anything to do with fae?

Mellissa came from somewhere and she has too many bee-like qualities to be human. And she gives off vestigia, which ordinary humans do not.

Something non-human went into her creation.

What is it that Zack says in Whispers Underground about the Fae?

There are those who are born different (like Zack or Beverly Brook)
Those who chose to be different (like Peter and Nightingale)
And those who are made different by magic (like Lesley).

I think Mellissa is in the last category. I think she's a type of chimera.

Good point! I’m going to be registering to this one in a few weeks, and I’ll be paying much more attention to her characteristics. I like the idea of her being a chimaera.

Well, that is Zack's perception, and Zack may not be the smartest in the bunch. I guess that she would have been the child of a fae-human mix, or some sort of elemental-type spirit.

Agreed, Zack may not be the smartest banana in the bunch, but he is surprisingly perceptive.

Good point! She's something different

Finished this story in record time and really enjoyed the posts here, too!

Did anyone else wonder if Melissa is a hedge witch?

Wasn't the path my thoughts went down, Bardbooks. I thought, and still think, she is some form of chimera.