Read, Share, Enjoy: Classics and More! discussion

The group read will be The Painted Veil by W. Somerset Maugham.

I found the full book online for free but it is not in PDF format and there are annoying ads....but its all there.

http://www.yesnovel.com/painted-veil

If anyone else finds a better free version, please share here. I didn't find it on the Gutenberg site.

The Kindle version is $12 (which seems a bit steep for a 90-year old novel). My local county library has a few paper copies of The Painted Veil and one e-audiobook- this is read by Kate Reading, who I gather has done many audiobooks for different companies. I'm reading my own copy though, contained in a collected volume of 5 or 6 Maugham novels which I bought used some years ago. I had already read The Razor's Edge which it includes decades ago, along with his Of Human Bondage, which it doesn't include. Since getting this book I've also read his rather lesser known novels Cakes and Ale and The Moon and Sixpence.
So The Painted Veil is my 5th Maugham. He is certainly a writer of impressive quality and does merit reading this many of his works. I've made a start on Painted Veil but probably won't be more than 1/3 of the way by Jan 1st since I'm mixing reading 4 other books now as well. It's not a long novel and seems to be a narrative of events involving a few primary characters (like other novels of Maugham's), so it seems so far that it can be read fairly quickly.

Yes, I thought Kindle was charging too much as well for The Painted Veil. I think they bumped up prices to encourage people to use Kindle Unlimited. I'm waiting on a library copy. I listened to the opening of the book on Audible and it was really unique. I'm looking forward to reading it in January.

I splashed out on the kindle version. I did think it was pricey for an old book, but that is obviously the influence of the movie. I very rarely spend more than $1 or 2 dollars on kindle books, so I thought this one was ok to spend on! That and "The Cossacks" (which was expensive too - I think it was b/c of the particular translation) were my Christmas presents to myself.

Beth wrote: "Yes, I thought Kindle was charging too much as well for The Painted Veil. I think they bumped up prices to encourage people to use Kindle Unlimited...."

I hadn't heard there was a Kindle Unlimited plan. Just looked it up. Seems a good option for some people. I go to the library every week or 2 to get/return dvds anyway, and some books I want to read Kindle doesn't have.

Tnhe problem with Kindle Unlimited is that not all books are eligible under the flat fee price per month and if you decide to discontinue it, you lose the books you got while you subscribed. So it is more like a lease than a purchase. It's got pluses and minuses.

I'm 1/3 of the way through now. I'm not very good at seeing symbolism it seems, but I think Maugham is referencing that we often put on a false front that we try to show the world. Perhaps also that there's a lot going on in the world that's hidden to us due to politics, people protecting the privacy of their lives, etc.

My initial impression of Kitty was fairly neutral. She seemed very reasonable in trying to obtain a marriage with someone she liked and who could support her in some comfort, at a time when it was nearly impossible for a woman to have her own career. My opinion of her became less favorable (perhaps I should spell it "favourable" ;) as it has progressed. She seems rather shallow, self-centered and naive. This isn't unexpected given her sheltered upbringing, probably. Also she doesn't seem to be particularly intelligent, maybe average or a bit less.
I'm enjoying Maugham's writing- so lucid, with such realistic characters. I liked when Kitty's boyfriend told her, "One can be very much in love with a woman without wishing to spend the rest of one's life with her" - I felt "ouch" for her.

I haven't read past the opening scene but I will catch up! Still trying to get the Princess Bride-December done today. :-D

Discussion Questions to get started with. Please start new threads if you find something in the book that you would like to discuss.

1. ‘Lift not the painted veil which those who live / Call Life.’
from an unnamed sonnet by Percy Bysshe Shelley (1792-1822)
What do you think it means within this story?

2. The books begins in the middle of something. Why do you think Maugham chose to open the narrative this way?

3. What are your initial impressions of Kitty & her family?

Beth wrote: "If anyone else finds a better free version..."

There is a free version on the Project Gutenberg Canada site: http://gutenberg.ca/
Just search (Ctrl+F) for Maughn or Painted Veil and you'll find it (for some reason it is right on the front page of their site).
I'm sure it's legal in Canada, and for other countries, check with your local lawyer :)

Daniel wrote: "Beth wrote: "If anyone else finds a better free version..."

There is a free version on the Project Gutenberg Canada site: http://gutenberg.ca/
Just search (Ctrl+F) for Maughn or Painted Veil and y..."

Good to know! (o:

This book has that train wreck feel. You can't help but watch poor Kitty's disillusion and the sordid drama. Because the book is written from Kitty's perspective it is easy to side with her even though she does some stupid things. I can't tell if we are supposed to like her, cringe for her, laugh at her foolishness, or root for her to learn and become something of value.
And Walter. Who is this guy? Is it really love he feels? Is love mixed with revenge or hate, or is he just able to detach himself to the point where he can say, "Hmm, how can I help Kitty learn a life lesson here?" Are we supposed to like him? I definitely don't get this guy.
On the other hand, at least self-interested Charlie is easy to understand.

I'm feeling the same thing. Walter is a curious character. I'm waiting to see if we learn something about his past that sheds light on his personality and actions.

I think Kitty is very much an extrovert while Walter is an introvert. Their difference in personalities might help explain the lack of communication and disconnect in their relationship.

My library only had the audio version of The Painted Veil so I am not finished yet but so far I am enjoying it. Maugham is one of my favorite authors but I had not got around to this book yet. Mostly because of the high price.

I'm near 2/3 through the story now, and really enjoying it. How can you not like a "classic " book that opens with a bedroom scene of a couple in an affair (both married to others)? Maugham puts a great deal more into it than that- there are well-drawn characters, and Kitty- the main character- becomes more self-aware and humble, much like Scarlet in Gone With the Wind, whom some reviewers compare this book to. There's the irony of husband Walter bringing Kitty to the site of an epidemic to punish her for her infidelity, and it becomes maybe the best thing that ever happened to her?
PS: You can read the Shelley poem the title comes from here: http://poetryx.com/poetry/poems/543/

I finished the book a few days ago, and wanted to give myself a couple of days to think over the story before I answered the discussion questions.

1. ‘Lift not the painted veil which those who live / Call Life.’
from an unnamed sonnet by Percy Bysshe Shelley (1792-1822)
What do you think it means within this story?

To me, it represents the socially acceptable facade that rests over the lives of so many in the book. To name a few of the characters in example of this, Kitty's father, who outwardly is the respectable husband and father, but is actually unappreciated by his entire family for the majority of the book and is relieved at the prospect of living a quiet, peaceful life once his children have left the nest and he is left a widower. Then, we have some of the married characters, such as Kitty Fane and Charlie Townsend, who play the part of faithful husband or wife, but behind closed doors, allow their basest desires to be fulfilled while their spouse is thought to be looking the other way. To a lesser extent, others in the plot also contribute to keeping a pretty face on things; some do this consciously, such as Dorothy Townsend, Charlie's wife, who goes on about her life as if Charlie is a faithful husband, even though she knows differently. Others, however, like the nuns, who tell Kitty how lucky she is to have Walter and how wonderful he is, unknowingly play a part in putting a lovely picture over a marriage that is quite unhappy.

2. The books begins in the middle of something. Why do you think Maugham chose to open the narrative this way?

I feel that this event in Kitty's life is the pivotal moment when her whole life changes. It's that falling chain of dominoes that begins so innocuously; a package arrives for her, which can't be delivered by the usual party, so her husband comes home at an unusual time to deliver it to her, but she's having some afternoon delight with Charlie, and this last domino falls right over and sets in motion her trip to China with Walter. Also, it draws the reader into the book right from the start!

3. What are your initial impressions of Kitty & her family?

My first impressions of Kitty and her family inspire pity for Mrs. Fane later on in the book. The Garstin family are an unhappy lot; the mother is foisting her ambitions on everyone, the father is going through the motions of life unloved and unappreciated, and the daughters are to be married off to the best candidate so that they won't be a burden to the family. I feel that Kitty has no chance at happiness or love, let alone even knowing what those things are, in such a negative and unfeeling environment.

Some final thoughts on the book also were shaped by having seen the movie years ago; I was very disappointed that Kitty went and slept with Charlie after Walter's death, even though she did, admittedly, recognize that she had to get away from temptation and did so. I wished, very much, that she and Walter had been able to repair things between them before the cholera took him, and had at least a bit of love and happiness between them before they were separated. This was such a sad book, but with so much beauty in it, too. I loved it, and what a journey the reader goes on before the final page is reached!

I'm close to the end now and am really enjoying The Painted Veil. I detect symbolism but I am not great at figuring out what it means. Three places of many where I think Maugham is sending a message are: The hydrocephalic child rejecting Kitty in ch 49, the dark description of the monastary at the end of ch 53, and Kitty's fascination with The Manchu Princess in ch 54. I'd love to hear what others think.

I just finished. I ripped through this book because I enjoyed it so much! I agree with Jennifer's analysis.

I'm not the best at deciphering symbolism, but I thought the child's rejection of Kitty (at that point) was as a result of Kitty learning (her lesson) - ie. getting past her prejudice. I think the other ones you bring up, Beth, were showing/describing Kitty's horizon's expanding. She was very small minded + insular, and she needed to see some other points of view/ways of life in order to grow as a person.

Jennifer wrote: "I finished the book a few days ago, and wanted to give myself a couple of days to think over the story before I answered the discussion questions.

Jennifer, you put so many aspects of this book into words and did it so well. I agree about so many in the story falling victim to the veil. Towards the end, it lifted for some but not all.

I loved the way the book opened. I was definitely pulled in immediately. I can't remember another book off the top of my head that has done this but I am sure others have used a similar format.

I agree that Kitty's encounter at the end was disappointing but following that, the ending was heartfelt and so beautiful.

George wrote: "I'm near 2/3 through the story now, and really enjoying it. How can you not like a "classic " book that opens with a bedroom scene of a couple in an affair (both married to others)? Maugham puts a ..."

I see the comparison with Gone With the Wind. This was not so epic in proportion but definitely some similar themes. I loved both books! Thanks for posting the poem. I will read it.

Marjorie wrote: "I think Kitty is very much an extrovert while Walter is an introvert. Their difference in personalities might help explain the lack of communication and disconnect in their relationship.

This was my first Maugham and I look forward to more. I agree that they were quite different. An introvert and an extrovert together can be a challenge. It was sad how deeply he loved her and how little she thought of him at first.

For those who are curious about Walter's quote from a poem.

An Elegy On The Death Of A Mad Dog

Good people all, of every sort,
Give ear unto my song;
And if you find it wondrous short,
It cannot hold you long.

In Islington there was a man
Of whom the world might say,
That still a godly race he ran—
Whene'er he went to pray.

A kind and gentle heart he had,
To comfort friends and foes;
The naked every day he clad—
When he put on his clothes.

And in that town a dog was found,
As many dogs there be,
Both mongrel, puppy, whelp, and hound,
And curs of low degree.

This dog and man at first were friends;
But when a pique began,
The dog, to gain some private ends,
Went mad, and bit the man.

Around from all the neighbouring streets
The wond'ring neighbours ran,
And swore the dog had lost its wits
To bite so good a man.

The wound it seemed both sore and sad
To every Christian eye;
And while they swore the dog was mad,
They swore the man would die.

But soon a wonder came to light
That showed the rogues they lied,—
The man recovered of the bite,
The dog it was that died!

Beth wrote: "For those who are curious about Walter's quote from a poem.

An Elegy On The Death Of A Mad Dog

Good people all, of every sort,
Give ear unto my song;
And if you find it wondrous short,
It canno..."

Interesting, thanks for sharing it!

I am still beginning but hoping to catch up: Here is the Shelley sonnet;
"Lift not the painted veil which those who live"


Lift not the painted veil which those who live
Call Life: though unreal shapes be pictured there,
And it but mimic all we would believe
With colours idly spread,--behind, lurk Fear
And Hope, twin Destinies; who ever weave
Their shadows, o'er the chasm, sightless and drear.
I knew one who had lifted it--he sought,
For his lost heart was tender, things to love,
But found them not, alas! nor was there aught
The world contains, the which he could approve.
Through the unheeding many he did move,
A splendour among shadows, a bright blot
Upon this gloomy scene, a Spirit that strove
For truth, and like the Preacher found it not."

So what goes on in the sonnet is that somebody--a man with a tender heart--has "lifted the veil" because he wants to find "things to love". But he does not find them. This man himself is a splendid guy among the shadows and he's a spirit who tries to find the truth, but does not find it.

It seems that the "painted veil" is life with its superficialities and its idea that we should try to get along even though we may feel fears and hopes. Most of us try to ignore the power of that.

So there are several characters in the book this could refer to. It need not be a man, just because Shelley has the "he" pronoun.

I agree, each of the characters' true self is hidden. The pictures and ideas that others have of them are what THEY perceive but the truth is something different, warts and all.

I apologize but I am only just about half way through the novel. I find it utterly fascinating but work and other tasks have taken away from my reading time.

Mid-way through, all I can say is that this will either be the making of Kitty or the destruction of her.

I'll share a couple of the questions I have (not knowing the answers).
Firstly I thought it was ironic that Kitty's younger sister, who was thought to be plain and unattractive made a good wedding at such a young age.

1) Did Charles Townsend surprise you at all or did you think he behaved as you would have expected?

2) What do you think of Waddington? Does he serve as a contrast to Charlie at all?

3) What do you make of the nuns and their convent?

4) The novel apparently takes place during the 1920's. Is there anything in particular about that time period that the novel stresses?

5) Is the background of English imperialism at all relevant?

Charlie never surprised me .... kind of a transparent jerk! All the other characters DID though.

I really liked Waddlington. I didn't contrast him with Charlie but I do credit him for helping Kitty see the light.

I loved the Nuns. They were very kind to her and helped her grow but the veil affected them too. The convent was a safe place for Kitty when she needed it most and helped her build confidence.

I will give the other two some thought. I am not as much a history buff as I would like.

Great questions Natalie! I look forward to hearing from others as well. Thanks for posting!

I finally got a used copy I ordered and am about 1/3 way through. I do like the writing and character development. I feel that the fact the only person Kitty meets and can talk with once up the river knows Charlie so well and tells her just what she needs to hear, is a little contrived. However I am enjoying the book very much so far.

It was a quiet day here, and I have just finished it!
I very much appreciate the growth in character and the courage Kitty gains. I think she has finally lifted the veil and can find hope and self-confidence, while Walter died without finding what he sought. Kitty and her father may have a very good relationship going forward. Her mother never seems to have changed. Charlie didn't either. I also really liked Waddington. I am still uncertain about the meaning of the dog quote - Did Walter see himself as the mad dog who "bit" Kitty by bringing her there after confronting her about the affair?
This was a beautifully written book. Years ago I read and liked Of Human Bondage. For others wanting to read more Somerset Maugham, I recommend it.

Janet wrote: "It was a quiet day here, and I have just finished it!
I very much appreciate the growth in character and the courage Kitty gains. I think she has finally lifted the veil and can find hope and self..."

I agree, I read 'Of Human Bondage" years ago and loved it. In fact, it may time to read it again soon!

I wonder why Kitty allowed herself to be seduced into sleeping with Charlie after his wife was so hospitable? It makes me view her potential changes as being possibly very weak ones.

Natalie, I was disappointed that she slept with Charlie again after all her soul searching ... and in his family home! How rude! However, I think she had grown enough to know what she was doing, had no illusions of love this time, and immediately regretted her weakness. Perhaps her set back was intended to show us that she was indeed wiser but still vulnerable, 'work in progress' so to speak.

Natalie wrote: "I wonder why Kitty allowed herself to be seduced into sleeping with Charlie after his wife was so hospitable? It makes me view her potential changes as being possibly very weak ones."

Natalie wrote: "I wonder why Kitty allowed herself to be seduced into sleeping with Charlie after his wife was so hospitable? It makes me view her potential changes as being possibly very weak ones."

I thought she slept with him again partially so that she could demonstrate clearly to herself that he really was a useless man and she was over him; and mostly so that she could walk away from him (and show him she was not under his thrall any longer).