Hobb-A-Long Read-A-Long discussion

I found it really interesting learning more about Trehaug, we didn't get to see much of it in the Liveship series, and now that we're following a poorer family, we get to see how the rest of the world lives in Trehaug.

Samantha wrote: "The beginning of a New Series! How are we liking being back in the Rain Wilds?"

Well, since you asked! Hahaha. I was perfectly happy in the Six Duchies and I might have preferred the next Fitz book to come next in the series. But the main reason I entered into the Rain Wild Chronicles with some trepidation is recalling from the Liveships trilogy a lot of the unpleasant or distasteful elements that occur in everyday life in Bingtown and especially the deeper you get into the Rain Wild areas: Serpents that not only can swallow you whole, but are also equipped to send out streams of scalding acid( which happens several times in the Liveship trilogy) at ships and their crews; the Rain Wild river, which is suffused with acid, and can't be used as drinking water or navigated by ordinary boats, which would be eaten up by the contaminated water( which also often saturates the ground surrounding it, affecting the kind of vegetation that can grow there, and forces denizens of the Rain Forest to live in trees); the devastating fact that proximity and exposure to the magical artifacts and dragon or Elderling related ruins heavily predisposes residents to disfigurement or deformities( like Reyn's sisters), so that the afflicted often wear veils to cover themselves, and often have few prospects for matrimony as a result; worst of all, the high rate of birth defects and high infant mortality( high adult mortality as well; Reyn didn't believe that he was likely to live past his 30's) that occurs in the area.

Given all the drawbacks, you wonder why people would choose to live there at all( then again, it hasn't been all that long since our forbears in the 19th century experienced things like having women bear 16 children or more, and perhaps have none of them survive past childhood, so there are plenty of real world examples of people persisting against adversity and hardship in the not so distant past).

But it still seems like an awful place to live even in the best of times. I even half-considered skipping this quartet of books altogether; but Jean Menzies at Jean Bookish Thoughts, whose opinion I respect and who has read no other Robin Hobb series to compare these to, liked them quite a bit on their own stand alone merit, so that encouraged me to continue!

John wrote: "Samantha wrote: "The beginning of a New Series! How are we liking being back in the Rain Wilds?"

Well, since you asked! Hahaha. I was perfectly happy in the Six Duchies and I might have preferred..."

I totally agree, John! I would have preferred going right back to another Fitz series. I'm enjoying this series so far though.

I like getting the little snippets of information from the Liveships characters. I also like that this series doesn't revolve completely around ships and sailors. That bored me a bit in the liveship series, especially in the beginning. The new characters are pretty interesting and I'm so excited about the dragon perspective!!

Michelle wrote: "I found it really interesting learning more about Trehaug, we didn't get to see much of it in the Liveship series, and now that we're following a poorer family, we get to see how the rest of the wo..."

In the next section( slight spoiler) we even get to see a tree house version of gentrification in Trehaug, where newer, financially better off people than Thymara and her parents, move into the "urban tree neighborhoods"; which drives up the prices, and makes these living areas less affordable for the lowest income families that had been residing there, necessitating them to move.

Sarah wrote: "John wrote: "Samantha wrote: "The beginning of a New Series! How are we liking being back in the Rain Wilds?"

Yes, the weakest part of Ship of Magic ( my favorite of the Liveship trilogy) was right where Althea and Brashen took off on the Reaper, at the same time Wintrow and Kyle left on the Vivacia, and of course, Kennit was on his ship already; too many nautical and sailor related storylines at the same time, so too much similarity of the different character's experiences. In Dragon Keeper, Hobb is largely keeping the sailors and keepers/hunters separated by having the latter travel along in small boats instead of always being in the sphere of influence of each other on the barge, so hopefully creating a little more variety.

Samantha wrote: "Oh yeah spoilers for everyone (not really)

I didn't really like this series at all. Hobb's weakest writing/characterization imo.

BUT you kind of need the events in these books for the last Fitz t..."

One thing that will get really obvious very quickly is that there seems to be too many dragon and keeper's characters to keep up with, and with enough similarity between them, that it's hard to distinguish one from another. Also some major characters like Alise and Sedric aren't very sympathetic early on, because they have made major compromises in their lives, and sold themselves out, so it takes a while for them to become more likable.

Samantha wrote: "Oh yeah spoilers for everyone (not really)

I didn't really like this series at all. Hobb's weakest writing/characterization imo.

BUT you kind of need the events in these books for the last Fitz t..."

So far, I don't really mind the characters, they're well flushed out, but I do have to admit that there are too many unimportant ones.

With these threads, I'll admit I have a tough time remembering exactly what happens in the chapters to be discussed so I often have to keep my thoughts vague to avoid spoiling someone!

Dragon Keeper begins with a fair amount of backstory right on the heels of Ship of Destiny( so the events of Fool's Fate involving Icefyre haven't occurred yet), about five years before the major events of this novel will take place.

Tintaglia is helping supervise the humans (including Selden) in Cassarick who are helping the surviving serpents cocoon themselves(using a mixture of clay, saliva, bile and other toxins[Yechhhh!] to seal them in. But the whole procedure has taken place so late into the winter, that everything goes badly, and when they "hatch" in the warm months, the serpents( now dragons) emerge deformed and atrophied, with some individuals lame or brain-damaged. The attrition is massive: from over 100 serpents that swam upstream on the Rain Wild river, only 32 lived to emerge from their cocoons, and many died soon afterwards. Only 15 of the dragons are still alive when the main events of the book start to unfold (only four female).

Some time during the interim, the events of Fool's Fate take place, and Tintaglia leaves the Rain Wild altogether, preferring to put all her eggs in one basket as it were, and mate with Icefyre so to perpetuate the dragon population, effectively abandoning the fledgling dragons. This becomes an increasingly untenable situation for the flightless dragons, as the end of the Chalcedean war makes the humans of the Rain Wild more and more unwilling to honor their side of their contract with Tintaglia, and continue to pay for the maintenance of the unpromising dragons upkeep( and sentiment starts to build among some humans to want to slaughter the remaining dragons, and use the magical dragon parts and blood for what would be a very lucrative trade, especially with the ailing Duke of Chalcid, who is ready to pay a king's ransom to obtain the goods for their medicinal properties).

Finally, the dragons hit upon the scheme to use guile and their ability to read minds and use their dragon glamour to entice the Rain Wilders to send the dragons and an accompanying retinue upriver to search for the lost city of Kelsingra, which may hold the key to help develop the stunted dragons into true dragons. Overall, other than Sintara, this is a fairly nondescript group, with none really standing out as interesting characters in their own right.

The humans that the novel will emphasize all come into it with a lot of psychological baggage: Leftrin, the barge captain( who is a lot like Brashen from Liveships), definitely comes across early on as a person with situational morals, as he is willing to consider dealing in black market goods when he finds a wizardwood log( which he ultimately uses (illegally) to refurbish his liveship barge, in ways we don't really understand at this point); it's not clear if he can be trusted yet. Thymara, a 16 year-old Rain Wilder is clearly going to be a main protagonist; and she is an outcast in her own community, owing to her scaled markings, and the fact she has claws for hands.

Alise is a Bingtown girl with low self-esteem, who because of that, ends up accepting a marriage proposal similar to one that Althea rejects from Grag Tenira back in Liveships, which is based not on love and mutual respect, but in the Trader ethic of striking a good bargain and getting the best deal, and giving up as little as you can for the most you can get. But it is because she personally values herself so little that she is so quick and willing to engage in a loveless marriage, even if it is with a most eligible bachelor like Hest, who is rich and handsome, and is willing to agree to her demands to pursue her scholarship of the Elderlings and the dragons; but in return, she has to become effectively Hest's brood mare, and produce for him an heir to satisfy his father.

Althea had too much self-respect to settle on what Grag could offer her; but Alise basically gives away her body for security and what money can buy, so she will have to earn the reader's respect before she will garner much affection from them. And the hope she has that maybe Hest will grow to love her is dashed from the beginning. As it turns out, the reason that she could never discern about why Hest would choose her, a homely woman otherwise headed for spinsterhood ( as she thinks of herself) instead of some trophy wife, is that he has a secret boyfriend, and is just getting married to create an heir because of parental pressure.

Even worse, Hest is a narcissistic sociopath, who shamelessly manipulates Sedric and Alise ( who he also rapes. And it is definitely rape, as it not consensual, even if Alise doesn't aggressively try to fight him off; because he has coerced and extorted her about the negative consequences she will face if she doesn't do her "duty" and brings shame to her family, should she resist) into doing whatever his whim should fancy.