Fantasy Buddy Reads discussion

Stonewielder (The Malazan Empire #3). Start date 6th January.

Angela wrote: "Stonewielder (The Malazan Empire #3). Start date 6th January."

Wow, Scott and I are really not on top of this..January is coming up so quick!

I haven't start one yet sigh

Prologue. So you know how throughout history there's names like Richard the Lion-Hearted, Peter the Great............Let's just say you're going to love (sarcastic inflection not included) Mallick's new one, LOL.


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The prologue in short is a history of the wall.

Starting with the first story we see more stuff falling from the sky. A reoccurring theme having just come off Toll the Hounds. I'm not sure what the significance it right now but you know that will play back later.

The sea-goddess protecting from the sea-riders who we see have been at it for a long-long time. I was trying to see if I could figure out who see was but not enough hints. I couldn't help but think it would be cool if she played off of Mael in some manner.

Broken circle tattoo is the cult of the Crippled god.........that's new. A former priest of Fenner involved with the Crippled God. I had to wonder at this somehow being tied to Heboric.

Gheven comment about different levels of occupiers was interesting. Perhaps ICE gets a little more of the social aspect of SE in this one.

Mallick Rel the Merciful, LMAO. The victors write the history and all that.

So somebody knows who Graymane is and there appears to be a bounty. That should be interesting. Malazan interests or other? With the Crippled God coming up so much and with Skinner still out there we have a lot of possibilities.

Ironbars on the wall and one of the defenders recognizing his name, interesting.

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Chapter 1

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So Stonewielder is a sword given to Greymane by the riders. It was hinted at in NOK that their purpose wasn't evil. So now the question why has the goddess set the islanders against them?

Interesting who this lady is who wanted to see Greymane had for moxie.

Boy I was hoping Kiska was going into the Deadhouse and was going to pull Kalam out. Agayla and the Queen? of Dreams? Last time she appeared was in the Bonehunters with Leoman and that wasn't a fond memory.

Seeing Corlo and Ironbars broken down was rough. Between them and Greymane I wonder about them turning on the defenders and helping the riders break through.

Manask and Ipshank remind me of some of SE's off British humor characters.
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Cheater! I'm not even done Toll of the Hounds yet!

Jenna wrote: "Cheater! I'm not even done Toll of the Hounds yet!"

I told you in the Toll the Hounds thread I was starting on the 2nd to accommodate reading Promise of blood starting on the 10th.

I know, but you're still a cheater.

Jenna wrote: "I know, but you're still a cheater."

Well, duh. :)

Chapter 2

Taking a moment from the story I have to say ICE has really grown as a writer since NOK. There's a lot less clunky sentence that I have reread to make sure I have the meaning. More and more he leaves little hints like SE vs spelling everything out for the reader.

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Jhevel is obviously Leoman and I was correct last chapter in that the Queen was of Dreams.

Agayla smiled then, perhaps at her fears. ‘Yes. It will be a new order.’

The Queen of Dreams’ face hardened as she looked off into the distance. ‘Yes,’ she said, her voice taut with something almost like distaste. ‘Let us hope it will be a better one.’

Interesting. The thought has been new gods vs old but Shadownthrone has long been aligned with old gods. Here it would seem the Queen is of the new, does that put her in with TCG?

I can only hope Leoman runs into the Bonehunters in a future book and that Corabb gets a chance to gut him. Kiska was a character I had hoped would be explored and Agayla seemed a favorable character but now who knows. It's probably a gray area like most things in this world.

Rillish and Greymane both get sucked back into the Empire. Not so sure I'd be going that direction especially with Mallick the Merciful in charge. Both Suth and Yana have a bit of mystery about them. Interesting to see if they have hidden identities. Loved the joke well we could just take this little island of Seguleh here and the choked coffee reply of yes all 15,000 of us might take a fishing village.

Loved the deck being used to tie in some of the events of BotF and the gods.

‘Look here. The Great Mother Goddess. She has had countless names, though Lady is not one.’ The hand moved to another . ‘The Great Sky-Father this one is called, though Light is his aspect. Here, the Great Deceiver would push forward – not realizing that to succeed would spell his dissolution. Here, the Beast of War stirs again – what shall be the final shape of its rising? Here, the Dark Hoarder of Souls. He has my friend now – may both of them come to know peace. And here, the newcomer, the Broken God, watching and scheming from afar.’

The Azath's are waning plays into the theme of K'rul's blood thickening and the warrens becoming inaccessible.

Overall a really interesting chapter. I feel like this book and this chapter in particular are much more like the SE books in setup. (hide spoiler)]

You should wait with those, start is after two more days :)

Chapter 3

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And he had mouthed something insipid about certainly meaning to and the Emperor had pulled his arm free to jab his walking stick impatiently to the south. ‘Everywhere , for every region – for every person – hands are dealt from the Dragons deck. To create true fundamental change you must force a complete reshuffling and recasting of all hands. Turn your thoughts to that.’ And the man had smiled slyly then, leaning on the silver hound’s head walking stick, staring out over the water and Ussü remembered thinking: As you have, wherever you have gone.

Great line and some understanding into ST's thought process.

Kiska and Jheval in Shadow. I'm hoping this leads to an appearance by Armanas and Cotillion, some conflict and not to be a broken record but an appearance by Kalam. Jheval's comment about the deceiver has to be Shadowthrone.

The Jhek not seen since Letheras and then as pretty cutthroat are much more sympathetic figures here. You can see the convergence on the wall with all these figures heading towards the storm wall especially so many Crimson Guard. I can't wait to see Ironbars open a can of whoop-ass.

Ivanr a half Toblokai who has turned away from violence. I can't help but hope he and Karsa cross paths at some point. That would be interesting. The Lady is pretty interesting. I'm leaning towards her being the Queen of Dreams but it seems a bit too neat.

Perish unless I'm wrong was the mysterious people who joined Tavore in the Bonehunters? Rillish getting dressed down by the old Wickan woman was pretty funny as was his exit. Also interesting his connection to Greymane.

The Otateral torc was a great thought and way to control Corlo and other mages. Surprised that hadn't come up earlier.

The spiders are definitely a reference to the ones the marines had to deal with in Dessert Storm and other battles in that area. Camel spiders are huge and cause a lot of damage.
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Too awesome not to post

I am reading the prologue. I started this one after I finished Chains of the Heretic, but I'm reading this on my phone and it seems whenever I had a chance to read, my phone died, had a low battery or I forgot it at home...

Scott wrote: "Too awesome not to post

"

Dayummm

Chris wrote: "Dayummm"

Doesn't that just express all that is epic about Malazan? Makes me want to re-read that book already.

Well I'm not going to write as much as you did, Scott, but I'm finished chapter 3. I've also noticed Stonewielder is a lot smoother that the first two ICE books - especially after ROTCG.
The stories I'm enjoying most right now would have to be: (view spoiler)[ Kiska and Jheval, Suth and the other soldiers, and Ivanr. Ivanr and Karsa would be awesome. Honestly, anyone who hangs out with (or fights) Karsa instantly becomes a more interesting character. (hide spoiler)]

Chapter 4

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More of Kiska and Jheval in shadow "playing" with the hounds. We would assume Aramanas and Cotillion know they are there so why toy with them? If they don't confront them I expect Edgewalker will.

A lot of good stuff on the Blue Moranth and the soldiers.

I was half expecting and wanting the riders to take Ironbars and we would get a look into their world and perspective. Or as an alternative his turning and leading a charge against the defenders.
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Chapter 5

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Kyle starts to gain more character this chapter. He's from Assail, his blade from Osseric can cut chains clean given their light power, and the Lady senses the Queen's presence with him.

I had to look it up on Malazan wiki for clarity but the Queen otherwise known as T'riss is queen of high house life. Kyle is in fact the solder. There's other positions that you can choose to look at or not below.

http://malazan.wikia.com/wiki/High_Ho...

The sea battles were really interesting. I wish there was a view from the Moranth perspective but getting a look at them closer is cool.

I wish Kiska and Jheval's story would get moving. Them being trapped by the hounds only has so much staying power.

The lady is looking more and more like the Cripple and the Dying god. A tyrant curse who rules through suffering. I expect with Blues and the Malazan's coming the defenders of the wall are going down.

One of the more political chapters from ICE depicting friendly fire as more horrible than the attacks of the defenders. I always liken the chemical attacks to napalm.
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Chapter 6

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She clenched down on her irritation. ‘Warran?’‘Warran,’ he echoed. As they walked along he repeated the name, trying it out. ‘Okay. I suppose that will do.’

Obviously the old man is a mage. Now which one? I was thinking of people who traveled either chaos or shadow and checked their physical descriptions and struck out on Kulp and Hairlock. I was half thinking outside the Mage's towards Heboric.

With the play of siblings in this series I started wondering about the Queen and the Lady being related.

There's a lot that went on in this chapter but most of it was really clear cut. I enjoyed it but there weren't a lot of undercurrents that foreshadowed future events.
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Chapter 7

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The lady thinks Bars is her mortal sword..........ya that's going to work out about as well as TCG choosing Karsa. Ussu has to be the mage.

Blues and company appear to have screwed up. Loved the head butt though.

Totsin........on the must die list.

I have to admit I thought the Storm Riders really were entering the city and hadn't considered the Blue Moranth.
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Jenna wrote: "Well I'm not going to write as much as you did, Scott, but I'm finished chapter 3. I've also noticed Stonewielder is a lot smoother that the first two ICE books - especially after ROTCG.
The storie..."

The second half of ROTCG I thought was really good, probably the best of empire.

Scott wrote: "Jenna wrote: "Well I'm not going to write as much as you did, Scott, but I'm finished chapter 3. I've also noticed Stonewielder is a lot smoother that the first two ICE books - especially after ROT..."

I think it might have been a lot less than half.... but yes, the last couple chapters were really great.

Chapter 8

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I think the coolest thing in this chapter was the visuals of Shell fighting on the wall. ICE did a great job of depicting the environment and the riders.

Ussu has that Mallick Rel quality to him. Power hunger sniveling little shit.......but he usually has a plan.

So warren of shadow and the white hounds which also had a large part in Toll the Hounds makes me wonder if Osseric will play a role here or the Tiste Liosan who other than get beat up a bunch in House of Chains really haven't shown up much in either series. Warran once again shows he's a little more then we think. I keep wanting to think Warran is Osseric but Osseric has tusks, a manifestation?

More Greymane kicking ass please. Kyle seems to being groomed for a big part in the ending as does Martial.


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Chapter 9

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So it was the tiste liosan and Osseric's daughter is in the lead. I wonder at her role vs a Rake, Spite/Envy, etc or other demigods.

The storm wall more of the Crimson Guard being tortured.

These two story lines better have some explosive action to end the book. There the two I'm most intrigued about and ICE has teased them along with minus a few good moments the least action.
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Chapter 10

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Greymane laving Rillish and Kyle behind was interesting and the Black Moranth as left out.......then the Blue send a ship to parlay. I'm trying to work all this out into the convergence......

Shell and Bars meeting, Corlo thinking he's mad and Ussu going to see Bars.

I keep wondering if ICE is going to deliver a global warming message beyond the theme of rising tides that SE would.

I was wondering when L'oric would surface. I was hoping Kiska would gut him. Interesting as she ponders how complicit the Queen of Dreams and Agayla are and if they desire Tayschrenn's assured demise.
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Chapter 11

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‘ Oh, a private chamber, shackles, strong aides to help me. And chains, sir. Your strongest chains you use for hauling stone blocks.’

I thought oh no Bars you poor bastard he's using you as his portal. Ussu's detachment to his victim's suffering reminded me of Mengele. The beach invasion also reminded me of Normandy.

Learthol stroked his long chin. ‘True. There are stories of a pair of travelling sorcerers. She did not destroy them.’

Not sure if many of you have read the books or caught the reference but this would be Bauchelain and Korbal Broach.


The Malazan mage had been nodding his agreement, as if in confirmation . ‘Yes. You here in Korel dismiss the Warrens – but they are real. One is named D’riss. The Warren of the Earth. The very ground beneath our feet. This … weapon … many claimed Greymane carries. Just now I found him, and it. It channels D’riss directly, Lord Protector . The might of the earth. And it has just been unsheathed against the wall . I felt it. Far to the west the Stormwall is being shaken to its roots.

So that's pretty interesting that it channels D'riss directly but wasn't it given to him by the Stormriders who are from the sea? Also maybe this will play into the end and maybe it won't but that's also Blues's warren.

Yathengar was the mage from the pits of Otateral island and he was sucked into the abyss with Tayschreen. Even Leoman wanted nothing to do with him.


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Scott wrote: "Chapter 8"

(view spoiler)[ I actually got the impression that Warran was actually Shadowthrone. He seemed way too knowledgeable about the Warren of Shadow - both in facts and actions. Also, there were a hint from Kiska (I can't remember where) about her thinking that he was too sensitive when he talked about Shadow and he spoke as if he was defending it and knew it recently rather than spending his whole life in the warren. A kind of newly acquired pride. I forget where the quotation was though... (hide spoiler)]

Also, I'm done!

Jenna wrote: "Scott wrote: "Chapter 8"

[spoilers removed]"
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I had considered him but dismissed him. I just finished and won't comment further.

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Jenna wrote: "Also, I'm done!"

I am as well. I think the book was smoother than either of the first two but didn't have the kick ass convergence at the end of either. It was good but just not epic. Too spread out.

Scott wrote: "Jenna wrote: "Also, I'm done!"

I am as well. I think the book was smoother than either of the first two but didn't have the kick ass convergence at the end of either. It was good but just not epic..."

Yes, that's exactly what I thought. Much better paced than ROTCG, but we didn't get that awesome ending we are used to.

Chapter 12 and Epilogue

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It was a good ending. It just wasn't great. First off the entire book is about the storm wall, the storm riders and the Lady and yet the confrontation is glossed over, WTF? I wanted the riders over the wall fighting the storm guard and the lady hurl lightening bolts at them. Granted it came from other characters but I want to see the storm riders unleashed.

Second, Greymane is just stuck as the guardian at the bottom? What a missed opportunity to have one of those SE heart-searing empathetic moments. (More on this in the epilogue).

Bars crushing Ussu's windpipe was might satisfying. You have to give SE and ICE props for not killing off the villains like Kallor and Mallick when you're so ready for it.

Skinner escaping with more power for the Crippled God was a brilliant unexpected story line to be continued later. Loved Blues telling Bars that's up to Kaz.

Epilogue sets a lot of things up.

1. Fishing boat pulls up a man, take me to Unta, have to assume that's Greymane? Already?

2. Where the hell are Kiska and Leoman?

3. Warran was Shadowthrone, I had considered him briefly and dismissed him. Well done.

4. Kyle heading back to the title of book 6, Assail. I'm assuming we won't see him again until then. Interesting since he's been the contiguous character.

5. This was really well done:

Shifting, panting, his foot numb and almost useless, Suth tried to bring the Stormguard’s back to Faro. Ipshank yelled then, next to him, ‘Rillish!’ Suth snapped a quick glance to the cliff edge. The Fist, his hands on the shoulders of the girl before him, was slowly leaning as if drunk. His eyes rolled up white and he tottered backwards, his hands slipping from the girl’s shoulders. He disappeared over the edge.

I was shocked to see him walking down the road. In the great Malazan tradition he drown!

6. Skinner and the chest of power. Interesting to see if that comes up in DOD or wait until OST.

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So many great questions. I think this is the first time I've been excited to get to the next ICE book.

Peaking ahead in the dramatis personae for book 4 Orb Sceptre Throne we are back in Darujhistan and you'll get to see ICE do the one, the only, the ravings of Kruppe!

First DOD...which brings us back to Lether and the Bonehunters.

Scott wrote: "Peaking ahead in the dramatis personae for book 4 Orb Sceptre Throne we are back in Darujhistan and you'll get to see ICE do the one, the only, the ravings of Kruppe!

First DOD...w..."

Ugh. Kruppe...

Yay I just finished this book. I can feel ICE improving with each new book. Return of the crimson guards , even though I so wanted to like it , was a headache to go through .

This one was much much better!! Although it took me a long time to finish , it wasn't as painful to read as the previous one. I'm just starting the next one in the series and I am already hooked. Again , the improvement is noticeable. I know now that Dancer's Lament is gonna be amazing.

I though Kruppe was really annoying when I first started reading malazan but on my reread of gardens of the moon I actually enjoy reading him.

Salman wrote: "I though Kruppe was really annoying when I first started reading malazan but on my reread of gardens of the moon I actually enjoy reading him."

Jenna hates Kruppe and Pust but I love them so it's a constant joke. We're reading Dust of Dreams starting 2/6 and Orb Sceptre Throne throne on 3/6. Are you doing the recommended reading order or have you already completed BotF and are only doing Empire? Either way it would be fun to have another person along.

FYI I just finished Goats of Glory which is book 16.5 in the recommended reading order. It's a short story by Erikson which reads about halfway between Bauchelain and Korbal Broach and Malazan. I really enjoyed it.

I'm not following the reading order , this is only my second time reading the malazan book of the fallen and currently reading gardens of the moon so reading dust of dreams is gonna mess up my order unless I reread 8 books in a month which would be impossible lol.

However for ICE I am lucky to be matching the reading order. I recently finished stonewielder and I want to join you guys so I will put it on hold till 3/6

Pust is an interesting character to say the least! I find that when I read books for the first time I don't really get into the comical and weird characters because I am too much in a hurry to know what happens but it's not gonna be a problem now and I'm really enjoying Kruppe and I'm sure it will be the same for Pust. I'm so looking forward to my deadhouse gates reread.

I meant to put Orb Sceptre Throne on hold till 3/6

Sweet, glad you can join us.

This is my first time through all the books.

I have to say that the malazan book of the fallen series was a quite a ride. Honestly I don't really know what to feel about this series but it keeps pulling me. That's why I'm reading the ICE books and rereading the main series again.

The recommended reading order is awesome because there's crossover between the two which you wouldn't pick up reading them independently. I fully expect the town from Goats of Glory to come up in Dust of dreams. Reading RofCG Traveller crosses right over into Toll the Hounds. Skinner's gets a brief look in Reaper's Gale and then is a major factor in RotCG.

Salman wrote: "I'm not following the reading order , this is only my second time reading the malazan book of the fallen and currently reading gardens of the moon so reading dust of dreams is gonna mess up my orde..."

Good to know that there's hope for me to like Kruppe and Pust upon reread. Glad to have another person for this read! This is also my first time through Malazan.

I powered through the last 25% of the book last night. So good!

Robert wrote: "I powered through the last 25% of the book last night. So good!"

Are you doing just Empire or the recommended reading order? It would be great if you could join us as well for DOD on 2/6 or OST 3/6.

didn't see this till now. I had read all of original malazan over the last year or so after a few false starts so I've read GOTM and COD twice as a result and now am just doing empire. some day I'll go back and do ultimate. have not read karhanas or the novellas feature b and b

Now starting May 7th 2018 for Angela and Miche.

In! :D

Although I liked the second half of RotCG the best of this series his writing really starts to take a turn for the better in this book and ICE grows as an author in every book going forward. By the time we get to Deadhouse Landing he's really good.

Scott wrote: "Although I liked the second half of RotCG the best of this series his writing really starts to take a turn for the better in this book and ICE grows as an author in every book going forward. By the..."

Glad to hear it! The second half of RotCG was great, but the first half was a bit disappointing. He had so many amazing characters there that he could have made this one of the best books in the Malazan world.

Up next! I'm actually curious to see how events play out in this book given how the last one ended. (view spoiler)[ Laseen's death. I'ld kind of like to see how the news ripples through what's left of the empire. (hide spoiler)]