J.R.R. Tolkien discussion

So I'm halfway through the Silmarillion and really confused about something.
This is what I know - the Maiar are powerful immortal beings who are not as powerful as the Valar but kind of help them, and Sauron is a Maia (don't know if that's the right singular word)
And I also know Wizards and Balrogs are of the same race and have equal power.
I heard somewhere that Gandalf is a Maia and I don't know if that's true or not, but if it is it means Wizards should be as powerful as Sauron which I don't think is right.
Could someone please help explain what wizards and balrogs are and how powerful they are compared to Sauron?

Thank you very much for your help!! :-)

Maia is the singular form. Sauron, the Wizards, the Balrogs are the same "race", they are Maiar. But this not means that they have the same power. Sauron was a general of Melkor (that was the most powerful Vala), the most "close" to Eru Iluvatar.

Thank you so much that helps a lot xx so they're all the same race but have different amounts of power (if that's the right word)

Yes, some are much more powerful than others - among the Valar, it's pretty clear Melkor is by far the most powerful, perhaps even as powerful as all the others put together. Sauron was always one of the most powerful of the Maiar, and I sort of get the impression that he's become more powerful over time as well.

But what's also important is that "power" doesn't seem to be just one thing in Tolkien. So Melkor, the most powerful being other than Iluvatar, repeatedly gets beaten in fights - by Tulkas, by Ungoliante... even one of the elves gives him a pretty good fight. Different people are powerful at different things - Melkor can make mountain ranges and warp elves into orcs, but he's relatively rubbish in a hand-to-hand fight (I think this is meant to be because he's ultimately a coward, whereas guys like Tulkas may be less powerful but have a force multiplier (so to speak) due to righteousness).

So some of the good guys are very powerful, but by their nature they don't have the same sort of powers as the bad guys. In the Silmarillion, Melian, a Maia, is powerful enough to protect Doriath from pretty much all external threats - but that doesn't mean she could go and conquer anywhere, because that's a very different sort of power. Likewise, Gandalf's powers lie in persuasion and... well, confidence-boosting, team-building, etc* rather than direct combat. Plus, even if he could take on Sauron, he doesn't want to - the good guys think that a direct supernatural war would destroy the world (otherwise a couple of Valar could come over and obliterate Sauron whenever they wanted - so long as they didn't mind rearranging the geography and killing a few million people in the process).

But the ultimate power gap between Gandalf and Sauron probably isn't that big. First-age Sauron gets beaten by Luthien, a mere elf. And if you look at Saruman, at a similar power level to Gandalf - he at least thinks he can challenge Sauron, and is doing OK at it at the point the books take place, before the ents come and ruin everything. But of course, to challenge Sauron in that way means becoming Sauron...

*wait, is Gandalf actually just a magical management consultant and motivational speaker? Hadn't thought of it like that before...

Thanks that makes it a lot clearer ~ I think Gandalf would make an amazing motivational speaker

Tolkien never stated that the Istari are Maiar, though it is tempting to think of them as such based upon their powers and purposes. One of Gandalf's names is Olórin, which is also the name of a wise Maia and, although there is no direct evidence that the two are the same, the common identity of the characters feels right. Nonetheless, the Professor chose not to make this clear and so we can but speculate. (Edit: For how wrong I am about this, please see Wastrel's comment, below!)

I don't particularly like the image of Gandalf as a motivational speaker, as that smacks of charlatanism (my prejudice, I accept). Gandalf's powers are themed around fire and warmth, and it seems to me that his very presence rekindles and nourishes the inner flame of fellowship, goodwill and loving kindness in all who contain a spark of these feelings. For those without, he is a raging, purifying conflagration: the protective, purging fire in opposition to the indiscriminately destroying fire of the Balrogs (which, again, seems to support the case for him being a Maia).

lily.grace wrote: "So I'm halfway through the Silmarillion and really confused about something.
This is what I know - the Maiar are powerful immortal beings who are not as powerful as the Valar but kind of help them,..."

I think also the good Maiar are reluctant to wield power because they know how easily it could lead to them being corrupted. There's a part of ch 2 of “Fellowship of the Ring” in which we almost see Gandalf as a Maia, when Frodo offers him the Ring.

“No!” cried Gandalf, springing to his feet. “With that power I should have power too great and terrible. And over me the Ring would gain a power still greater and more deadly.” His eyes flashed and his face was lit as by a fire within. ”Do not tempt me! For I do not wish to become like the Dark Lord himself...”

lily.grace wrote: "So I'm halfway through the Silmarillion and really confused about something.
This is what I know - the Maiar are powerful immortal beings who are not as powerful as the Valar but kind of help them,..."

I've edited the title of the topic, adding "Gandalf and the Maiar" to your original title, to help browsing members identify (and hopefully engage in) this very interesting question :-)

Yeah thanks good idea

Yes Gandalf would make an amazing motivational speaker x

Michael wrote: "Tolkien never stated that the Istari are Maiar, though it is tempting to think of them as such based upon their powers and purposes. One of Gandalf's names is Olórin, which is also the name of a wi..."

Tolkien:
"We must assume that they [the Istari] were all Maiar"
"For with the consent of Eru they [the Valar] sent members of their own high order, but clad in bodies as of Men"

Elsewhere, the Valar and the Maiar are identified as being of the same order (but different degree), and nothing else is ever identified in that way.

Regarding their sending: the Valar say that the Istari "must be mighty, peers of Sauron, but must forgo might, and clothe themselves in flesh so as to treat on equality and win the trust of Elves and Men."

Elsewhere, the Istari are spoken of as being able to take on the forms of Elves or Men, just as Maiar can - nothing else is spoken of that way. Nor is there any other suggestion of another type of being among the followers of the Valar, let alone of "their own order", or "peers" of the Maia Sauron.

I think Tolkien makes it pretty clear that they're Maiar - if he says we must assume that they are, who are we to disagree?

[this is all from Unfinished Tales]

Wastrel wrote: "Michael wrote: "Tolkien never stated that the Istari are Maiar, though it is tempting to think of them as such based upon their powers and purposes. One of Gandalf's names is Olórin, which is also ..."

Thank you for this - I've not read Unfinished Tales of Númenor and Middle-Earth and can see that I really do need to. I've never been so pleased at having my ignorance demonstrated :-)

Edit: What joy to find that I already own this book! Looks like I've got my first read for next year's Tolkien Challenge sorted :-)

Very true xx "there is always hope" is the best one :-)

"Wisest of the Maiar was Olorin. He too dwelt in Lorien, but his ways took him often to the house of Nienna, and of her he learned pity and patience." from Of the Maiar, The Silmarillion
"Olorin I was in my youth in the West that is forgotten," says Gandalf, his words remembered by Faramir in The Window On The West in The Two Towers, being book two of The Lord Of The Rings.
"Gandalf is an angel," wrote J.R.R. Tolkien in one of his letters.
It seems that Gandalf was a Maia, one of the Maiar, sent to Middle-earth as one of the Istari by the Valar to oppose Sauron.

As it's clear my reading is deficient, and as it's (just past) Christmas, I've treated myself to a copy of the first edition, rather than the paperback that's been sitting on my shelf for 11 years. Now I have to read it!!