Georgette Heyer Fans discussion

So how are you finding it so far?

Carol--I'm loving it. Not a surprise, as this is (by scientific reckoning) my umpteenth re-read.

Oh my, Chapter 10 opens with a bang. It's the morning after the theater outing and Bath society is re-acting. Great scene. I can hear Abby grinding her teeth in a combination of outrage and frustration.

Just reading about Stacy's meeting with Mrs. Clapham in chapter 13 - what a slimy, mercenary little worm! I'm so glad Fanny got the flu!

Miles is one of my favourite GH heroes & I'm falling in love with him all over again. :)

Me too!

Thoroughly enjoying it so far. I just finished chapter 11, with this priceless line (among several others):

"Are you so sure that she is planning to elope with my horrid nephew?"

The first time I re-read this book, I expected to read about Miles' trip to London before the rich widow arrived in Bath.

Is Heyer treating us fairly by writing about that trip later? Or does it not matter since it isn't a mystery? (Except her mysteries don't surprise).

Well, the two scenes are adjacent. Maybe it was just a “flow” issue—GH had to finish one thread of action before picking up the other. The very careful reader might be able to deduce that Miles went to the fancy-house before the widow appeared, but most readers get played, I suspect. GH having her fun with our emotions!

Howard--it goes like this: at the end of Chapter 11 Miles tells Abby that he shan't be in Bath next week, he must send Selina his regrets re: the rout party. Chapter 12 opens with Laura Butterbank descending on the sisters the next morning, with the news that Miles had left town--destination not known. The rest of Chapter 12 is the party and Fanny becoming ill. ending with Stacy's frustrations. Chapter 13 opens with Stacy and then introduces Mrs Clapham. GH, talented author that she is, allows the reader to think that Mrs C is exactly what she appears to be---the answer to Stacy's dilemma. The reader is finally let in on the joke at the end of Chapter 14. I call it masterful storytelling.

Chapter 10 favourite bits:
- This passage "She thought, in touching innocence, that in Miles Calverleigh she had found a friend, and a better one by far than any other, because his mind moved swiftly, because he could make her laugh even when she was out of charity with him, and because of a dozen other attributes which were quite frivolous - hardly attributes at all, in fact - but which added up to a charming total, outweighing the more important faults in his character. She was aware of these, but she could find excuses for his cynicism, and even for the coldness of heart which made him look upon the problems or the troubles besetting other people with a detachment so profound as to seem inhuman. It was no wonder that twenty years of exile had made him uncaring: the wonder was that he was not embittered."
- Stacy's assignation with Fanny in Bath abbey and how she goes hot/cold on him and he has to keep talking her back into a semblance of complaisance. Like a school girl she loves all the romantic nonsense he dishes out to her but on a practical level she will not leave before the card party and its slowly dawning on her the consequences of her actions. I love the fact she has been written with a stubborn mulish streak that her aunts are very well aware of. You can just picture her as a stubborn spoilt girl that has been much doted upon and not often had her will crossed.

Chapter 11 favourite bits:
- The passage where abby says you cannot be bored by what nearly concerns anyone to whom one is very much attached and for whom one is responsible. She said (without thinking) that Miles is an object of compassion as he doesn't know what she means. He then shocks her by saying he agrees and ever since he came to Bath he realised this. Abby then feels like she 'suffered an electric shock, Abby gave a gasp'. Perfect.
- When Miles said he wished Abby would bestow a look upon him 'as if he were her whole dependence and delight'. Abby was suddenly aware that her heart ' in general a very reliable organ, was behaving in a most alarming way, first trying to jump into her throat , and then beginning to thump so violently that she felt breathless, and uncomfortably hot'. He then avows his love for her in a very matter of fact way. I think I enjoy the way this is written as Abby is a character that is 'neat as a pin' and has always been very much in control of her life and emotions and Miles has totally side swiped her and her feelings for him have taken her by surprise.
- Miles then turns his clumsy proposal into an object of humour in their subsequent conversation. 'Sometimes I wonder if you have any proper feelings at all!" "Almost none, I fear. Would you marry me if I had?". This renders him more likeable not only that he is blunt with his feelings but tries to put the other person at ease constantly the way he laughs at himself and the world.

Belinda wrote: "Chapter 11 favourite bits:
- The passage where abby says you cannot be bored by what nearly concerns anyone to whom one is very much attached and for whom one is responsible. She said (without thin..."

Yes! I love that Miles is so straightforward and honest, no Spanish Coin from him!

Susan in NC wrote: "Yes! I love that Miles is so straightforward and honest, no Spanish Coin from him!

I've tried to google that expression without any luck. Anyone know it's origin?

I find more sites that define “Spanish coin” than explain its origin. If I were to hazard a guess, I would say that Spanish currency was particularly unreliable or often counterfeited, so it would carry associations of unreliability or deceit. The Historical Thesaurus says it dates from 1785 (at which time it meant flattery, not necessarily false flattery), so it was being used before the Peninsular campaign.

Those are wonderful quotes Belinda! GH knew how to write chemistry without resorting to lust, heaving bosoms and bodice ripping.

I took this a few years ago....

Wells cathedral:

I've been there!

Beautiful shot, Louise!

Thank you :)

I hadn't made the connection before this re-read and it made me wish I'd had more of a chance to explore the cathedral itself.

Wow! great shot! (from someone who has just finished the Wells section of the book lol)

Louise Sparrow wrote: "I took this a few years ago....

Wells cathedral:

"

Stunning, thanks for sharing!

I have a similar photo of Wells Cathedral taken several years ago.

My link with events in this book is that my great-great grandparents were married in Bath Abbey.

Thanks for adding a little beauty to our day!

Louise Sparrow wrote: "I took this a few years ago....

Wells cathedral: "

Oh, very impressive! Thank you for posting. :)

Fantastic. The figurines on the side are well worth a look (as they said in the book)!

Re-reading these chapters, it struck me how frequently GH does POV shifts among characters in this book--more so, I think, than in some of her other books. Or maybe it's just that the shifts announce themselves more (more overt signals that she's leaving one character's head and jumping into someone else's POV.)

Marissa wrote: "Re-reading these chapters, it struck me how frequently GH does POV shifts among characters in this book--more so, I think, than in some of her other books. Or maybe it's just that the shifts announ..."

Hi Marissa. I agree. We are in Abby's head, Stacy's head and Fanny's. We don't need to be in Selina's as her conversation is stream-of-consciousness. Its deliberate we aren't in Mile's head.

Chapter 12 favourite bits:
-Character portrayal of Miss Butterank as the 'Bath Intelligncer'. I can just picture her and her relish of every small detail of gossip. For some reason I picture her with buck teeth.
- More rumination by Abby - she thought in Miles she had found an ideal. She realises she has really fallen for this guy and starts missing him. Discussion of the 'intangible link' between them. She felt herself akin to him.
- Abby's astute observation that Miles didn't get upset or annoyed when he broke the rules and was pulled into line. He affably conceded to his critics their right to censure him and he neither cared for their praise nor for their blame. He is not a rebel but conforms to the rules and when he breaks them, takes his punishment happily as its too much effort to fight the system.
- Abby "Oh, Grimston, you-you wretch!" Abby exclaimed ruefully. "If she has, we shall be in the suds! Well! all my dependence is on you!".
Chapter 13 favourite bits:
- When Stacy bought the flowers for Fanny he really believed Selina's description of her as at death's door. "Mr Stacy Calverleigh, absorbed in his own entity, only noticed the peculiarities of the persons with whom he came in contact when their idiosyncrasies directly affected him, and so made no allowance for the exaggerations of an elderly lady whose paramount interest lay in the ailments of herself, or of anyone attached to her."
- Side note - Selina was 44 and described as elderly! First chapter 'shady side of 40'. Abby is 28 and Selina is 16 years older than her.
- Stacy's contact with Mrs Clapham - 'she may have the instincts of a straw damsel' but her judged her to be sprung from middle-class parents, and to be too much imbued with the boring, shabby-genteel notions obtaining amongst the depressing and regrettably increasing members of this class to encourage the advances of any gentleman unable, or unwilling, to offer her the security of marriage. He would have preferred, to have become leg-shackled to a 'female of his own order'. There is that class consciousness again, but the 'exigencies of his position made it impossible for him to be too nice in his choice'.

Chapter 14 favourite bit:
- ' but the melancholy truth was that she missed him so much that it was like a physical ache'. She found herself continually wondering where he was, and what he was doing, and wishing that she could at least know that no accident had befallen him.

Chapter 15 favourite bits:
- Abby's showdown with her brother James. He really is a 'pompous lodcock' as earlier described as he gives himself credit for driving Stacy off. I love how he is bilious and runs away at the thought of picking up Fanny's infection. Cowardly as well as pompous.
- Fanny's awakening to Stacy's true colours at her friend Lavina's hands at end of chapter.

Chapter 16 favourite bit:
- Selina's reaction to James' pronouncement. She thinks she drove Abby into declaring for Miles due to the people she had invited to the card party who gossiped back to Cornelia. She tightens the noose of obligation around abby's neck.
- Mrs Grayshott "the sooner Miss Wendover's numerous ailments carried her off the better it would be for Abby'.
- Fanny then tightens the noose around Abby's neck. Abby was actually glad that Fanny's pride had received almost as severe a blow as her heart. What a good guardian she is in that she wants Fanny's character to develop and not for her ego to be constantly stroked.
- The end of the chapter Abby is only left with pleasant thoughts (as her sister and niece are trying her) and she tries to recall when she first saw that inner glow in Mile's eyes when they alighted on her. Absence does indeed make the heart go fonder and in times of trial we all resort to happy thoughts.

Hah, Belinda, good on you for seeing chapter 16's events in such a positive light, when I simply wanted to strangle Selina and smack Fanny for being such a bad patient and so needy in her heartbreak that poor Abby was on the verge of collapse! I know, I know, Fanny's young and Selina's pathetic, but what stands out to me is both claim to love Abby so much but they certainly don't give her desires and dreams a moment's thought. I loved Mrs, Grayshott's comment about the sooner Selina's ailments carry her off the better! ;)

There are two characters who by far had the most fun in this novel.

Okay, Howard, I’ll bite: which two?

The two people hired by Miles to spend lots of money fooling his nephew. They had to be in their element all of the way.

Fair enough! For that matter, the mortgagors of Danescourt must be laughing all the way to the bank as well—all of them benefiting from Miles’s sentimental attachments.

Oh I don't know Miles states that there is no sentiment in business and it seems he has managed to get Danescourt (and the mortgages) at a knock down price!

Hi everyone we are getting a bit close to spoiler territory now. Could we contnue this discussion in the spoilers thread? :)

Hi Susan. Agreed. Selina and fanny although professing to love Abby to bits are tremendously selfish! It's their own comfort they are concerned with which is much like slimey Stacy.

Chapter 17 favourite bits:
- Mrs Clapham. He [Stacy] was unprepared for the change in her voice, and in her demeanour, and it startled him. Her voice was not only 'decidedly tart, but it had lost some of its gentility'.
- 'It was not the truth of what she had said that provoked this fury: it was her incredible insolence in daring to address him - a Calverleigh! - in such terms.'
- The final Miles & Stacy show down - 'Miles regarded him with an amused eye, contributed little to the conversation, but outdid him in affability.'
- Stacy is the ultimate deceptionist yet dislike the fact he held the wrong assumptions of Miles and accuses Miles of deceiving him - ironic. I like how in this interchange, Stacy keeps thinking he can plead to Mile's emotions and yet there are none.

Belinda wrote: "Chapter 17 favourite bits:
- Stacy is the ultimate deceptionist yet dislike the fact he held the wrong assumptions of Miles and accuses Miles of deceiving him - ironic. I like how in this interchange, Stacy keeps thinking he can plead to Mile's emotions and yet there are none. "

That is so very, very common. I don't want to get into politics, but it is common elsewhere as well.

Belinda wrote: "Chapter 17 favourite bits:
- Mrs Clapham. He [Stacy] was unprepared for the change in her voice, and in her demeanour, and it startled him. Her voice was not only 'decidedly tart, but it had lost ..."

(view spoiler)[ Amusing that Stacy tried appealing to family emotions - yet the Calverleighs clearly felt none for Miles. The family felt absolutely no interest in Miles once they banished him. (hide spoiler)]

Carol ♔Type, Oh Queen!♕ wrote: "Belinda wrote: "Chapter 17 favourite bits:
- Mrs Clapham. He [Stacy] was unprepared for the change in her voice, and in her demeanour, and it startled him. Her voice was not only 'decidedly tart, ..."

Exactly Carol, great point! And Belinda, thanks again for helping me relive those scenes in my mind - Stacy gradually realizing Mrs. Clapham was not at all what she seemed, and he had been royally played - priceless!

Howard wrote: "Belinda wrote: "Chapter 17 favourite bits:
- Stacy is the ultimate deceptionist yet dislike the fact he held the wrong assumptions of Miles and accuses Miles of deceiving him - ironic. I like how ..."

So true, Howard - blind, self-deceiving human folly, we've truly been awash in it here in the US, haven't we? Lord help us...(not to get into politics, either) ;)

And after thoroughly enjoying Miles' conversational digs, here's one from Abby:

"If Abby is so lost to propriety, to all sense of the duty she owes her family, as to marry Calverleigh, she will no longer be a sister of mine!" he said terribly.
"That's no way to dissuade me!" said Abby.

I think Miles is rubbing off on her...

Karlyne wrote: "And after thoroughly enjoying Miles' conversational digs, here's one from Abby:

"If Abby is so lost to propriety, to all sense of the duty she owes her family, as to marry Calverleigh, she will no..."

Yes - that made me laugh out loud (thank goodness, no coffee being drunk or sandwich being eaten at the time)!

Susan in NC wrote: "Karlyne wrote: "And after thoroughly enjoying Miles' conversational digs, here's one from Abby:

"If Abby is so lost to propriety, to all sense of the duty she owes her family, as to marry Calverle..."

Strangely enough, I wasn't eating or drinking at the time, either!

Carol ♔Type, Oh Queen!♕ wrote: "Belinda wrote: "Chapter 17 favourite bits:
- Mrs Clapham. He [Stacy] was unprepared for the change in her voice, and in her demeanour, and it startled him. Her voice was not only 'decidedly tart, ..."

Agreed!

Okay Georgette, I've just realised what your next Shakespeare quote in Chapter 18 was, 'That I should love a bright particular star' from All's Well that Ends Well. She really was a shakespeare buff wasn't she? Its is a rather lovely quote where Helena was lamenting that Betram was too good for her and was out of her league - i.e. she might as well love a star in the sky.

http://shakespeare.mit.edu/allswell/a...

Belinda wrote: "Okay Georgette, I've just realised what your next Shakespeare quote in Chapter 18 was, 'That I should love a bright particular star' from All's Well that Ends Well. She really was a shakespeare buf..."

Don't you think that, in general, well-read people of her era were simply more aware of Shakespeare? As time has gone on, people might "know" a bit of his through quotes and movies, but how often does anyone actually read his plays and poetry? Actually, how many people are even exposed to Shakespeare himself at all? I know, I know, it's a sad state of affairs!