/r/Fantasy Discussion Group discussion

This is where we can talk about the full book, spoilers and all!

Some talking points to spark discussion:

1) What are your overall thoughts? Favorite scenes? Characters? What worked and didn't work for you?

2) How do you feel the prose impacted the story? Any favorite quotes?

3) Where do you think the story is going from here?


This thread contains spoilers for the entire book. Also, don't forget to stop by the Q&A if you have any questions for the author!

Once I picked this book up, I flew through it in a couple of days (I imagine some of you experienced this too). I enjoyed the book through the market and ground-level ringdom, but once Senlin entered the Parlor I was completely sucked in.

My favorite ringdom was probably the Parlor. I find it fascinating that everyone is acting out the roles given to them. It's pretty scary to think of "nurses" cutting out eyes just to play a part. It was interesting to see the parallels between Senlin and the men who died in the Parlor. One man couldn't set aside his naive view of the Tower and was killed, and the other had lost himself so fully in the Tower that he was capable of acting like a monster. I think Senlin's growth might take him from near one extreme to the other by the end of the series.

Bancroft's prose was fantastic. It struck a balance between prose that is straight and to the point and prose that is almost a work of art. I really liked Finn's quote from the New Babylon section, which showed that he wasn't that much different from Senlin:

“You have to go much higher, past all the traps and slums. There are ringdoms up there worthy of children. But it’s not a cheap neighborhood. It takes a fortune and savvy and a hundred other things to get there and stay there. You have to be leery of impostors, and overcome your greed, and make peace with your sacrifices. There will always be more than you prepared for.”

I'm really excited to see where the story goes from here. I hope Senlin can find his wife soon, but I suspect that if they are ever reunited for good, it won't be until the top of the Tower.

1. Overall thoughts:

OMG THIS BOOK. I've never put in a review for the very first line GO READ THIS BOOK, but that's exactly what I did for Senlin Ascends. This book is an exception to all of my normal preferences in Fantasy. It's only one POV, where typically I need at least 2-3 to feel like I got the complete story. I've never read anything Steampunk before, typically sticking to magic over machines but this was amazing. This is my first read through an independently published author - where I've been skeptical of things like this in the past under the completely false assumption that publishers will take you if you're book is decent and therefore independently published things are of lower quality.

So far my favorite character is Edith, the ending with her arm being all steampunky was very cool.

My favorite scene is actually one of the most vicious, mostly because it brought out emotions in me - that poor kid suffering from The Red Hand. It was the first time we saw some otherworldy magic in a person rather than in machines or architecture which was neat. It reminded me a lot of bioshock and how those people gained their powers through vials of glowing liquid. That game was also very steam punk, so if you like this book and video games ABSOLUTELY check out Bioshock Infinite.

2. Favorite Quotes:

"Long dies the revolution! We have wasted our lives, painter. But, I at least have not burdened the world with proof of it".

I actually really loved him as a character too - both of these guys were such tragic characters...

3. Where do I think the story is going?

I couldn't wait to find out so I've already nearly finished Arm of the Sphinx. Since I've read them back to back I can't really remember well where one starts and the other began -- but I do remember thinking that this person who made her arm into something steampunky is going to be a huge character, and possibly related to The Red Hand and all that.

It's hard to remember what was mentioned in book one vs book 2 - I immediately started reading The Arm of the Sphinx and that vial comes up again. there has to be a connection - and I'm sure it'll be important.

Well guys... I blew through this book and Arm of the Sphinx in 3 days.

So yeah. What I really want to do is talk about book 2 because it gave me the sads. But oh well.

My impressions of the author: dat imagination, son!

My impressions of the first book. First off, I don't really do steampunk either unless I feel compelled to. I felt the beginning, almost all the way up to New Babel, was kinda ehh. I liked the setting of the tower a ton and I liked the writing but Tom's naivety and how long he clung to it really annoyed me. But then he actually starts doing stuff and the book takes off and the end is just so good.

One little thing that bugged me a bit about both books is that I picked up on Tom doing something really dumb right at the end of book one. And then in book two stuff starts happening and I was like "Yeah Tom, you idiot, because *********!" I don't know if it was supposed to be a huge reveal (it sorta reads that way) but I thought it was a bit too hinted at if it was. Every time things happened I was like ...

Anyways, it is rare that a book(s) sticks with me this hard and I just want to read the next one RIGHT NOW so I gave Senlin Ascends a 4(.5 if I could) and Arm of the Sphinx a 5.

Hi hi - I read Senlin Ascends a couple of months back but have been lurking on the comments for this re-read. I just want to get out how amazing I thought the whole parlor section to be:

- the surface idea that people come to this ring to act out a fantasy is brilliantly executed; throughout the sequence I felt I was watching it as if the actors were in a play (despite a lack of a normal stage) and also the idea that this same scene is happening across many different rooms is bewildering
- the part when Senlin and Edith are cooped up outside is a great breather and I love that she comes back (a theme with many of the side characters that we see)
- and then this: 'Senlin butted in, “Role? What do you mean? You’re an actor?” Ceph could hardly contain his delight; he bit his knuckle and blushed. “Oh, Mr. Senlin, what a wonderful review. You have absolutely made my day!”' This flipping of perspective changed everything. I had to put the book down and go over the whole part.

So the consensus is to keep reading book 2 now? I already bought it but didn't want to jump right in immediately considering I finished the first in less than 24 hours.

I guess I'm going to echo everyone else and say that the Parlor was my favourite ringdom, for pretty much the same reasons. That was very original. Senlin's "friends" in the Baths were my favourite characters. Both caught in the tourist trap, and pretending to be way more important than they really are.

Where is the story going? Hopefully, up the tower a bit more. :)

Having just finished the book, I can only applaud the author. The climax was well worth the journey. I enjoyed the whole book, however I found the pacing a bit slow in the Baths. That was the point when I became worried that the whole book would be episodic, and that we would have to become emotionally invested in different characters in each ringdom, only to never see them again. And then when characters started re-appearing later, I was worried that it was too neat and contrived, but the grand design eventually revealed itself in a satisfying way. I'm glad that the character of Senlin achieves significant growth towards the end, marked by the replacement of the Babel guide with his own journals at the start of each chapter. This was paralleled by a shift in the narrative style towards more action. The prose continued to surprise me to the very end with unexpectedly beautiful phrasings.

I think my favorite moment in the novel is, oddly enough, the part where the Red Hand gets high and says "Who's there?" and then starts slaughtering his own people. That moment had me laughing out loud. It was a brilliantly timed comic moment.

Unsu wrote: "however I found the pacing a bit slow in the Baths. That was the point when I became worried that the whole book would be episodic, and that we would have to become emotionally invested in different characters in each ringdom, only to never see them again."

That is what worried me too. I thought it was just going to be Tom exploring different ringdoms and encountering new characters in each one. I am glad it moved off from that. Up until that point I was half in, half out but when Finn Goll and Adam both came back into the story it drew me all the way in.

This was such a great book! Like a lot of the others, I just blasted through it because I could NOT put it down. And that's from a book that I originally was skeptical about wanting to read ... So, I'm definitely pleased with how the book turned out!
I've purchased Arm of the Sphinx, but I didn't start it right away because I wanted a bit of a lighter fare in-between the series. It's an amazing book, with great characters and awesome ringdoms, but it's not a happy read, I'd say. You're always worrying about what's going on in the tower, and Senlin, and Marya, and how they'll come out of this. It's a great worry, though! That's how you know you've been sucked in. ;)

I did love how the characters showed up again, especially at the end. It also was really nice to see how they'd developed since first meeting them (Edith) and more backstory (Adam). The author has created such interesting characters, and in such an interesting world, all these cool scenes and thoughts come out of it.

And, of course, like everyone has been saying from the first chapter -- the writing is beautiful, and it's just the right style for this book.

The author has really set up a strong first book, and I am really looking forward to starting the second one, overall! So, for my first r/Fantasy book club participation, I'm definitely pleased. :)

I honestly wasn't really into this book at first. The beginning didn't grab me, the setting was cool but I wasn't feeling the characters. It took me until the parlor scene to really get into it. Then came the baths which was great, and the book just kept getting better and better.

I have a question, each bit of the tower seems to have a function that applies to the next ringdom. What do you guys think the towers purpose is? If the ringdoms work together to create a bigger purpose. What does the tower do?

I truly loved the book, and I plan on continuing the series. It's a refreshing and thought-provoking read. Unsurprisingly, I still have to gather my thoughts, considering all the symbolism and deeper nuances of the story.

I can say for sure that Thomas Senlin worked marvellously for me, and so did the other characters which were all interesting and fleshed-out. I also liked being surprised as the tale unfolded, consequently, I have no idea where the story is going from the ending of vol 1, which was quite sparkling (only Edith's last return felt a bit overboard, no pun intended)!

My favourite quote is the following, but I've several highlighted. Such good prose.
"I’m glad your self-righteousness has given you some exercise, but you forget: we are not such a tidy, reasonable, and humane race. Our thoughts don’t stand in grammatical rows, our hearts don’t draw equations, our consciences don’t have the benefit of historians whispering the answers to us."

Loved it. Can't wait to read The Arm of the Sphinx.

There is quite a bit here to appreciate - excellent writing, interesting characters and unique worldbuilding (love that each ringdom has its own unique characters, setting, challenges, threats, and risks. But also it's just a very compelling story. There is a constant sense of distress and worry combined with venturing into the 'unknown' as we explore this mysterious tower with all its peril. A powerful combination.

Favourite quote: "“Senlin did not believe in that sort of love: sudden and selfish and insatiable. Love, as the poets so often painted it, was just bald lust wearing a pompous wig. He believed true love was more like an education: it was deep and subtle and never complete.”

In terms of where it's going? I hope 'up the tower' as someone commented earlier is the right answer. Looking forward to finding out as soon as I can get my bingo card completed!

First, I love this book, as I have mentioned in my review. Second, I asked Mr. Bancroft about this in his Q&A, but am very interested in what the group thinks. This may be outside the parameters of the discussion sparker, so forgive me if so, but...

It occurred to me early on in the reading of SA what a wonderful TV series these books would make. The characters, structure, everything about it lends itself in my mind. I even found myself casting the characters as I went along - and for some reason many of the actors that came to mind are some who are currently on GoT - but not for Tom.

What do you think of the idea of a TV series, and who would you like to see cast as the main characters in a The Books of Babel TV series?

I would definitely watch a TV series based on these books. And the discussion is not meant to be limited to the ideas I gave, those are just meant to get the ball rolling!

Travis wrote: "I would definitely watch a TV series based on these books. And the discussion is not meant to be limited to the ideas I gave, those are just meant to get the ball rolling!"

Thanks Travis!

I would definitely watch a TV series based on Senlin's adventures, particularly because this story, so far, is just the kind of adult fantasy I prefer.
No idea for the casting though. I imagine Thomas like the average scholar-next-door, unremarkable and ungroomed, but far from a caricature.

Alissa wrote: "I would definitely watch a TV series based on Senlin's adventures, particularly because this story, so far, is just the kind of adult fantasy I prefer.
No idea for the casting though. I imagine Tho..."

I think it would be great to see a TV series too, though I imagine it wouldn't be cheap to make with the ever-changing fantastical settings!
Thomas in my mind is anything but 'ungroomed', he is my mind a perfect English gentleman. He has to change and adapt as time goes on but he still holds to certain standards of society as a means to combat the surrounding chaos.