Catholic Thought discussion

Treatise on the Love of God by St. Francis de Sales

The suggested reading schedule for "Treatise on the Love of God" is posted below. There are a few different options for finding a reading copy of the book.

Free audio and ebooks:

LibriVox Audio Recording: https://librivox.org/of-the-love-of-G...

Christian Classics Ethereal Library: https://www.ccel.org/ccel/desales/lov...

Amazon 0.99 cents: https://www.amazon.com/Treatise-Illus...

Suggested Reading Schedule:

(First date is the read by date)

March 8-14, Intro, Preface, Book 1, and Book 2 (119 pages)

March 15-21, Books 3 and 4 (48 pages)

March 22-28, Books 5 and 6 (60 pages)

March 29-April 4, Books 7 and 8 (59 pages)

April 5-11, Books 9 and 10 (71 pages)

April 12-18, Books 11 and 12 (67 pages)

Note: Easter Sunday is April 16

I found a copy of this as a pdf on http://www.catholicspiritualdirection...

For those of you who have the book, would you know if there is any difference?

Andy wrote: "I found a copy of this as a pdf on http://www.catholicspiritualdirection...

For those of you who have the book, would you know if there is any difference?"
Thank you for posting that, Andy. It looks to me like a direct scan from the TAN Books edition, although I don’t have a copy of this particular book. I like this PDF format.

Andy wrote: "I found a copy of this as a pdf on http://www.catholicspiritualdirection...

For those of you who have the book, would you know if there is any difference?"

Andy, I have a printed copy of the book published by Wilder Publications with Mackey as the translator. The book on Catholic Spiritual Direction appears to be the same as my printed copy. The only difference is that the page numbering is slightly diferent.

Caterina wrote: "Andy wrote: "I found a copy of this as a pdf on http://www.catholicspiritualdirection...

For those of you who have the book, would you know if there is any difference?"
Than..."

Good question about what translation is preferable over others. I started with the kindle version which is by Henry Benedict Mackey but I switched to the translation by Sidney Lear (available in PDF on line) because I wanted to hear the reading sometimes. I discovered significant differences between even the chapter headings. Compare:

“A preparation for the discourse on the union of the blessed with God.” (Mackey)
“What is the union of the blessed with God?” (Sidney Lear)

The above are the titles of Book III, Chapter IX in the two different translations.

Or these titles of Chapter XI:

“Of the union of the blessed spirits with God, in the vision of the Divinity” (Mackey)
“The Union of the Blessed with God through His vision” (Sidney Lear)

The meaning to me is not the same. The first translation is at best ambiguous. Whose “vision” – of the blessed or of the Divinity?

Galicius wrote: "Good question about what translation is preferable over others. I started with the kindle version which is by Henry Benedict Mackey but I switched to the translation by Sidney Lear (available in PDF on line) because I wanted to hear the reading sometimes. I discovered significant differences between even the chapter headings. Compare:..."

Thank you for that comparison, Galicius. Great thought to try to find the best translation. Do we have any fluent French readers in the group who could give us insight? We might want to know whether the ambiguity may be intentional. I’m not fluent in French but know that ambiguity is often used in French writing deliberately, to create a rich layering of meanings; French lends itself to this in a way that is very different from English, because French has a relatively small vocabulary so the same words and phrases can and do mean many different things, while English has, I believe, the largest vocabulary of any language which can lend itself to precision more easily but on the other hand it’s more difficult to create deliberate layering of multiple meanings. Very different languages and authors, but I understand that the Hebrew bible is full of deliberate multiple meanings, wordplay and puns, as is the writing of Teresa of Avila in Spanish, and she was considered a great stylist. I’m not very far into this book but Frances de Sales definitely seems to have a way with words and sometime seems to engage in wordplay (though not necessarily in your examples.) The TAN Books PDF that Andy posted is the Mackey translation, by the way.

Caterina wrote: "Galicius wrote: "Good question about what translation is preferable over others. I started with the kindle version which is by Henry Benedict Mackey but I switched to the translation by Sidney Lear..."

Thank you for your incisive comments Caterina. I hope it will not make a great deal of difference what translation we use to get a good sense of the message. I did come across some passages where I am confused as to what St. Francis means. I will point them out as we discuss the book. I agree that there is no substitute for the original. I am fluent in another language and have read the same works in original and translation (Bruno Schultz) and it was like reading different books. The author’s style is of course a huge factor. Joseph Conrad acquired French before English and developed an interesting form of English. That is evident rather more in his arrangement of words and sentences, I am told.

Yes, I agree it’s not always easy to understand what he means; in addition to the translation there’s the fact that he was writing in an entirely different era whose way of thinking we cannot fully access. For instance, I don’t even think the philosophical concept of “will” meant the same thing then as it does now, and it definitely does not have the same place/weight in human understanding -- I wish I were better educated in the thought of that era. It will be great to read and discuss with you and the others -- I just hope I have time! I’m not sure I’ll be able to keep up with the ambitious reading schedule because I’m finding the text very dense and need longer to chew on it. This is my first attempt to participate in this group’s discussion. Thanks again for your insights!