World, Writing, Wealth discussion

Our third group read of 2017 is another thriller! Do I sense a theme?

Without further ado, join us in reading the debut novel of the globetrotting Kent Babin.

A thrilling tale of intrigue and revenge played out on the wild steppes of Mongolia.

Industrial espionage firm Furtive Khan Global is in the business of stealing secrets. When a prospective client requests dirt on the mining companies operating in Mongolia, Furtive Khan dispatches its newest interloper, Intikam, to complete the job.

A tragic mining death on Intikam's first day on the ground shocks the country and sets off a dramatic chain of events behind closed doors. The world must not know that the death was anything more than an accident.

Intikam's search for the truth takes him across Mongolia and China, and puts him up against a former KGB agent who will stop at nothing to maintain the status quo. As Intikam begins to uncover a scandal that promises to bring down Mongolia's power structure, the KGB agent turns his attention to eliminating the threat.

Intikam quickly finds himself on the gallows. It's only a matter of time before the noose tightens completely.

Reading Schedule
Starting on 8 March, we can discuss the specified chapters without having to use spoiler tags. Conversely, you must use spoiler tags for any discussion about future chapters.

1 Mar = First impressions; please hide any spoilers.
8 Mar = Chapter 19 (~49%)
17 Mar = The entire book

Note: I've reserved the last two weeks of the month to a complete discussion of the book. I believe that doing so promotes more discussion. However, we should be flexible with the dates as best fits the participants.

got my copy.

Me too :)

Sounds like a good one! I'm intrigued by the setting, Mongolia, and Kent's expertise.

:) Thanks guys!

Got my copy but I'm afraid I won't get to it before the due date. Have fun with this one, everyone :)

Thanks, Marie! :)

Hey Kent, is it okay if I ask a question? Is that knife (dagger) an heirloom? I've never seen one like it, pretty deadly-looking. (I guess I asked the question already!) I was curious about it though. :)

Hey M.L., questions are most welcome!

I honestly don't know if it's an heirloom. I think we looked through every dagger on Shutterstock and iStockPhoto and found that this one had the most "rugged" look of them all. It was unique without being flashy. Sadly, there wasn't much of a description of its history on the site that I got it from (can't remember if it was SS or ISP).

Thanks! I think it's great, a great find, it looks exotic and lethal and so authentic I had to ask! :)

@6% -- light satire at the beginning; quick pacing(view spoiler)[, although the MC jumps to a conclusion (hide spoiler)]. (added the spoiler tags just to be safe.)

Got started. One comment on the prologue - the people at MI6 reckon James Bond would be fired at once. Not being like James Bond is not exactly unusual :-)

Ian wrote: "Got started. One comment on the prologue - the people at MI6 reckon James Bond would be fired at once. Not being like James Bond is not exactly unusual :-)"

:) That's a good point. JB was far too public a figure to be a good spy.

I need to be more careful with those kinds of references in the future.

Thanks!

No problem, Kent. I did it as much as anything to get on the GR notifications for the topic. So far, so good, but I am not far enough into it to make any sensible comment.

Just wanted to remind everyone that we no longer need to use spoiler tags when discussing content from the beginning up to and including chapter 19.

I'm enjoying the cultural elements. I've only just started. I'm where the mine has just exploded and the I thought it was interesting that the locals in the bar would usually be crowded around the TV watching sumo wrestling.

M.L. Roberts wrote: "I'm enjoying the cultural elements. I've only just started. I'm where the mine has just exploded and the I thought it was interesting that the locals in the bar would usually be crowded around the ..."

In hindsight, I realized that I didn't do a good job explaining the extent to which Mongolians love wrestling. During the summer, they have a festival called Naadam. One of the marquee events is wrestling. You can see a glimpse of it here: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tA1gc...

In addition to that, Mongolians have been successful with sumo wrestling in Japan. When I was in Mongolia, a Mongolian was the top ranked sumo wrestler. When he would fight, the whole country would stop. Every TV would be tuned to the event and almost nothing would take people's attention away.

Kent wrote: "M.L. Roberts wrote: "I'm enjoying the cultural elements. I've only just started. I'm where the mine has just exploded and the I thought it was interesting that the locals in the bar would usually b..."

That is cool! I watched the youtube. I catch NHK news fairly regularly and they will have spots on sumo wrestling.

Kent, what surprised me, bearing in mind this was supposed to be a thriller, was that it contained so much about Mongolia. It would also make a great travelogue.

Oh, I like the cultural aspects! :) I haven't read anything set in Mongolia (except for 13th century). Being under the thumb of Russian corruption, dumping their vodka on the Mongolians, and how it's caused so much alcoholism. It sounds like past US history where they sold 'fire water' to the Native Americans and stole them blind. It caused social problems that still exist.

Ian wrote: "Kent, what surprised me, bearing in mind this was supposed to be a thriller, was that it contained so much about Mongolia. It would also make a great travelogue."

I actually started writing a travelogue. The problem was that a found the process of re-telling of my experiences to be monotonous. I realized that I needed to inject some fiction to make it more interesting. What I ended up with was a cross between a travelogue and a thriller. I wanted to highlight Mongolia, while at the same time keeping the reader engaged by the story.

What I've always struggled with is correctly categorizing my book. I've always been tempted to label it a travel thriller. Sadly, Amazon doesn't have such a category, so I went with espionage and international thriller & crime.

It's espionage to an extent, but not in the traditional sense. It's also not a typical international thriller. If you have any ideas about how I can label it, I'm all ears.

M.L. Roberts wrote: "Oh, I like the cultural aspects! :) I haven't read anything set in Mongolia (except for 13th century). Being under the thumb of Russian corruption, dumping their vodka on the Mongolians, and how it..."

Thanks! Certainly there are parallels with US and Canadian history. One major difference is that Mongolia was "given back" to Mongolians. The Communist legacy of bureaucracy and corruption has remained, but at least Mongolians are the ones deciding the fate of their country.

I'll think about it, Kent, but I have trouble with categories too. Maybe in the blurb. Something to discuss later.

great discussion so far! Just wanted to remind everyone that on this Friday, 17 March, we'll start our spoiler-free discussion of the entire book. I've been working on my short story, but I plan on powering through it so that I'll be ready for Friday.

Kent, I have a question that shouldn't be a spoiler. Furtive Khan is effectively some sort of Turkish intelligence agency. I looked up a little about you, and if I read it right it seems you don't live in Turkey, so what made you choose that?

Ian wrote: "Kent, I have a question that shouldn't be a spoiler. Furtive Khan is effectively some sort of Turkish intelligence agency. I looked up a little about you, and if I read it right it seems you don't ..."

Good question. I lived in Azerbaijan for 7 1/2 years and used to pass through Istanbul a lot on my way to Europe. What I knew was that my books would be set in Mongolia, India, Egypt, Azerbaijan, Georgia, Uzbekistan, maybe some European countries. Turkey seemed like the best neutral country to use and Istanbul the logical city.

It also helped that the starting point for this series was that my main character be called Intikam. It's the Turkish version of the name (Intiqam in Azerbaijani), so why not base Furtive Khan in Turkey as well.

I set some of the scenes of one of my books in Uzbekistan (admittedly well into the future) so I shall be curious to see what you make of it. I once spent a little time there (Tashkent and Samarkand).

When were you there? Samarkand was an interesting place, and not just because of the Registan. It seemed the most livable of all the cities I was in. Was it the musicians and opera singers that were re-located their after the Nazi invasion of the Soviet Union?

I made it all the way to Moynak. It's really too bad the Aral Sea isn't there anymore. I liked Nukus, especially the Avant-garde art Soviet art museum.

I put your books on my list. Which one has parts set in Uzbekistan?

I found Samarkand a fascinating place. I was there back in the Brezhnev days, and that was an added piece of interest. Flying into Tashkent airport had a strange depressing effect because lying on the side of the runway was a series of broken/discarded aircraft. I also went down to Tajikistan - I recall a strange cafeteria where everyone sat under a huge picture of Stalin.

"Miranda's Demons" has parts in Uzbekistan, including a walk around Samarkand as I recall it from the Brezhnev days, with one change - I gather they have dug up the dirt that had filled the floor of the Registan - when I was there it was level with the road outside. It is a long book, though. It is my "War and Peace" because that is what it is, including my replacement for democracy, and how that is corrupted. I think there are also about five romances, and four lots of aliens.

That must've been something back then. I was there in 2012. I think they've cleaned up the discarded jets, but the airport is the same one you landed at. It feels more like a train station given its proximity to the city.

They have a "bullet" train between Samarkand and Tashkent, and I just heard that they plan to expand the line south to the Afghan border.

Yes, the floor is now visible in the Registan. They also built the area up around it. There is a promenade with shops and all sorts of touristy stuff.

Hey Kent, Ian, you've mentioned so many intriguing places. Just thinking if there are any photographs you'd like to share of any of the places I'd love to see them and I think other folks would too. I've passed the part in the book about Lenin's statue still standing; something you would only see in certain places. If not, no worries of course, just thought I'd mention it! :)

Hi M.L.,

Good idea! Here is a link you can use to see some photos of Mongolia. I included photos of Ulaanbaatar, Sukhbaatar, Darkhan, and Sainshand.

https://1drv.ms/f/s!AqkQQmUkB-gvjzW72...

Note: the photo resolution is quite low because I only had a 2MP camera back in 2005. :)

Thanks, that is so cool. I took a quick look but will be back tomorrow for an in depth look! I saw the statue of Lenin :) Thanks!

You're welcome! Let me know if you need any further explanation about a photo.

I took quite a few photos of Samarkand, but they are all slides. I need to find some way of digitizing them

Kent wrote: "Hi M.L.,

Good idea! Here is a link you can use to see some photos of Mongolia. I included photos of Ulaanbaatar, Sukhbaatar, Darkhan, and Sainshand.

https://1drv.ms/f/s!AqkQQmUkB-gvjzW72......"

Cool stuff, Kent! Thanks
Reminds me Altai, what with Cyrillic script and very similar simplistic architecture..
Hope one day to be able to take a Transsib or Trans-Manchurian railway route or one of their variations, passing through Mongolia...

Season for the full discussion of the entire book is now open! ^_- No spoiler tags required.

OK, I shall kick off. One thing that I thought needed attention was the question, why did the characters do what they did? I thought some of it was a little too contrived to get the plot where it ought to be. Example: An experienced Turkish agent knows Sergey is a killer and he wants revenge. So why does he tell Sergey he is going to kill him and then do nothing? For that matter, why does Naran send Intikam to China and then follow and try and get him to do something? Surely it would be easier to keep him in Mongolia? A senior officer in the Mongolian Security Service would not have to worry too much about things going wrong in Mongolia, but has no power in China. I thought this was a plot weakness. Of course it gave the opportunity for detailed descriptions of a part of China :-)

Thanks, Ian! This has been the focus of most of the feedback I've received to date.

I wish I could say that I was thinking about these questions back when I was writing the book. The reality is that I was so focused on what was happening to Intikam (and Sergey, to some extent) that the other, more minor characters were taken for granted.

In hindsight, I would offer that I tried to paint Hakan has unreliable, even disgraceful. He was more interested in trying to ruin Sergey's life and that would take time. It just so happened that Sergey made a preemptive strike because he knew just how badly things would go if Hakan was allowed to continue.

With respect to Naran, I think it came to the point where she no longer had any use for Intikam. Everything he went near seemed to result in people getting killed, so why not get him out of the country? And, of course, I did need to move the story into China, so what better way than to have him deported there. :)

In my mind, your questions raise a much larger question about point of view. If I'm writing from Intikam's POV, he won't know Naran's reasons for doing what she did. Same with from Sergey's POV. He won't know what Hakan was thinking. Would it have been better to have chapters from POVs other than Intikam, Sergey, and Wesley?

For example, after the reader knows that Intikam is suspected of human trafficking, might it have been useful to add a chapter showing what Naran thinks?

Hello Kent, I may have this wrong, but I was under the impression that Hakan contacted Sergey and the reader knew that (I can't remember whether Intikam did). Hasan might be unreliable, but I thought that was a stupid thing to do. Surely you would not threaten to kill a known killer, and do nothing.

As for Naran, I disagree with your reasoning that she had no further use for him - actually she went to China seemingly after him. But apart from that, whenever he went anywhere, things happened. Surely Naran would just leave an agent of happenings wander around? She is after some bad guys, and is getting nowhere. She needs something to happen, and Intikam, to my mind, is just what she needs, as long as she accepts he is disposable.

No, I don't think you need to worry about POV. You did that quite well. If Intikam is suspected of trafficking, I think it is OK to leave it at that. The only effect on the story is whether Intikam knows, and if so, what he does. No, my point is the story should try to progress where things that happen follow reasonably logically from what comes before and people behave for a reason, unless, of course something unpredictable turns up.

For what it is worth, I know the feeling about wanting to get various "fond" places into the story. In my "Miranda's Demons", a story of invading aliens who never really get onto Earth, I wanted to get into it a piece of Brazilian coastline, the Australian NSW interior, Sydney, Tashkent, Samarkand and the Roman Forum. Of a romantic couple, one came from Sydney, one from Brazil so that got some of the area, Tashkent was the centre for the HQ of the Space Corps (a stretch, maybe, but . . .) and the world was split into two sectors - a Federation and some others, and that gave a natural excuse for the Australian to take the Brazilian to places the would never have been able to get there. OK, not hugely strong, but there were reasons, and of course, things happened there. I happen to think there should be reasons connecting what happens, but of course others may not agree. We shall have to wait and see. Meanwhile, for what it is worth, I thought it was one of the more interesting books I have read for a while.

Hmm... I went back to check to make sure I had the sequence of events straight. Hakan gets the tape from Intikam on Jan. 28th, calls Sergey the same day, and is dead in the wee hours of the 30th. Stupid, yes, but also not surprising given how cocky Hakan is. He thought he could toy with Sergey and he was quite clearly wrong. I do see your point, though. Hakan should've known better, or at least I should've made it clear as to why he didn't take immediate action.

I do see what you mean regarding Naran. I think what happened is that I added some information at the end (mainly about how Mongolian Intelligence was watching Sergey) without considering how that would impact decisions made earlier. You are absolutely right in that she would've been much more interested in keeping him around.

Sounds like you handled the "fond places" issue well in Miranda's Demons. I guess as long as it doesn't detract from the story, it's fine.

Glad to hear you found my book interesting. And, of course, I really appreciate the detailed analysis. :)

Don't take what I am saying personally or anything. This is a discussion session, so I felt I should look for things. Just hoping to be helpful.

Everything you've said so far has been really helpful, especially the specific examples.

I've already factored the feedback into the writing of my 2nd novel.

Thanks again!

I found Intikam quite hard to connect with. He seemed a bit passive, particularly considering what his job was, and seemed to get dragged into each situation without much forethought.

I did enjoy learning heaps about Mongolia, and ended up wandering all over the web looking stuff up!

Thanks, Leonie!

I tried to emphasize the fact that Intikam really had no idea what he was doing. It was his "first day," so to speak, and he was at the mercy of his environment.

That said, I've had more than a few people echo your sentiments. I now understand that I didn't spend enough time on Intikam's character, choosing instead to focus on Mongolia as a character.

I think that if I were to do it all over again, I'd probably go with the "tourist goes to Mongolia, gets embroiled in an espionage plot" model.

Thanks again!

Although the meandering and observations of everyday life do add an element of realism.

I suppose the question is, would any sensible agency put an agent in the field who had no idea what he was doing? The most likely outcome would be he would be arrested, interrogated, and give up valuable information about the agency, or even worse, if left loose (which I think Naran ought to have done) he would eventually expose other agents. I think Intikam should have had more purpose behind what he was doing, which is Leonie's point.

Ian wrote: "I suppose the question is, would any sensible agency put an agent in the field who had no idea what he was doing? The most likely outcome would be he would be arrested, interrogated, and give up va..."

Yes, that's definitely part of it. He seemed to have little idea how to be an agent. I would assume he'd have had at least some training in how to develop a cover story, or how to source information.

The other part for me seemed to be Intikam as a person. I think it was a lack of emotional connection with him.

Sergey, the titular head of the mine, has the most unique voice.

That was an excellent plot twist to have Toogi, the taxi driver, be a Mongolian Intelligence agent. @_@

Alex, do you really want your intelligence agent driving all and sundry around all day, or sitting in a taxi waiting for a fare? Or are you assuming only foreigners could afford taxis. If so, Toogi wouldn't be doing much most days.

When I was in the old Soviet Union, Intourist provided guides and translators. At least the senior one at one hotel was KGB - probably a more efficient use of an agent :-)