Romance Writers & Readers discussion
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Full Time Author?
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W.S.
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Mar 10, 2017 12:02PM
New to writing, new to indie publishing, new to everything, basically. Just out of curiosity, how many of you are able to make a living writing full time? And how long did it take to get to that point? I have a full time job that I like, but I would like to eventually do this full time. I have a five year plan that is going to take a tremendous amount of work to pull off. Thoughts?
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Welcome! I can't offer you much feedback on your question as I only just published my first novella last month. I have had some success with a non-fiction title but nowhere near good enough to support myself. Like, not even close. My royalties from that book allow me to pay for modest promotions, a great cover artist and two nights out a month for dinner with hubby. Call e crazy but I think that's quite a thrill lol. Anyhoo here's wishing you a thousand times that, success-wise. It is quite rare but not impossible. Depending on your version of success it is possible to attain it - just have loads of fun as you write. I can't put a value on that!
Hardly any, I'm afraid.I've been writing 4 years now but still nowhere near.
I know 1 who's just about doing it.
Write because you love it.
Any readers/reviews are just a bonus.
Welcome to the author world.
Good luck.
xx
Erin wrote: "Welcome! I can't offer you much feedback on your question as I only just published my first novella last month. I have had some success with a non-fiction title but nowhere near good enough to supp..."I agree, no pricetag on the enjoyment I'm getting out of writing. I have a job with a guaranteed retirement in less than 17 years. I know it sounds like forever, but I'll only be 56 at that time. I like what I do and my coworkers, so it's no great sacrifice to stay until then. I figure if I can go earlier than that - great. If not, I haven't lost anything, but I've gained much in the loving what I do department.
I'm a stay at home mom and writing is my way of having something for myself other than being a mom...my "job" even though I don't leave the house. It's my escape and I'm so glad I started doing this two years ago. So I guess you can call this my full time job. I certainly don't make what I did when I worked full time. (Actually leaving the house hahaha)But I enjoy the writing aspect. I really, really just love putting my thoughts down and having fun.
Mod
The insight was still good so here's a copy/paste haha!
A. Shiloh wrote: "i published my first book in january and it's really tough to get the word out on my book. i've had other publishing companies promote it for me (companies like that offer different packages), i'm going to be featured on Saturday Spotlight on an indie romance website - Indie Romance Writer's & Readers, and i use social media to try and promote myself, but it's really difficult. i've only had a handful of people buy my book. i do love writing but it can be discouraging when all your hard word doesn't pay off - at least financially. i wish you the best of luck and hope you have great success. i don't want my words to lessen your excitement about being an author, i'm just letting you know my experience. good luck!! :)"
Amanda wrote: "I'm a stay at home mom and writing is my way of having something for myself other than being a mom...my "job" even though I don't leave the house. It's my escape and I'm so glad I started doing thi..."Thanks, fellow Queen. And FYI, I'm about 30% through Protecting You. Loving it so far. I don't have a lot of time to read, but I am enjoying it.
Kathy wrote: "I suggest you hook up with Derek Murphy at http://www.creativindie.com."Thanks. I bookmarked that link for perusal later.
Annie wrote: "Previous comment deleted for bookwhacking but...The insight was still good so here's a copy/paste haha!
A. Shiloh wrote: "i published my first book in january and it's really tough to get the wo..."
I agree. Good insight. I've sold about 75 copies since I released my book two months ago. That's more than I expected. I'm not dumping a huge amount of money into promotion just yet. I find people are reluctant to take a chance on new authors. I hope to release two more novels this year, which I think will increase my credibility. My five year plan requires about half a million copies to sell (hahahaha!), so only 499,925 copies to go! A girl can dream, right?
W.S. wrote: "Amanda wrote: "I'm a stay at home mom and writing is my way of having something for myself other than being a mom...my "job" even though I don't leave the house. It's my escape and I'm so glad I st..."Ah, thanks:) Yeah, I try to get reading in whenever I can because I love reading as much as I love writing!
W.S. wrote:" A girl can dream, right? "It all starts with a dream and ends in reality:) That's what dreams are for, to start an idea and see it grow! You can do it!!!
Mod
Yes, I 100% believe you can make a FT living by publishing. Since I'm a numbers person, I totally crunch everything. If that bugs anyone, it'd be wise to stop reading now haha! No, really. Stop. Now. You've been warned...
When I published my first book last June, it sold quite well for the first 3 months, thanks to Amazon's Hot New Releases rankings. I was NOT enrolled in Select but was selling ~13 copies per day @ $3.99 a copy, which worked out to $1K+ per month. After sales settled a bit, I decided to go Select, which raised my rankings due to KU downloads but cut my profits significantly (35-40%?) due to, well, the fact that we get paid peanuts for pages read LOL
Anyhoo, I'll likely leave this entire series in KU cuz the visibility is much better and I wanna grow an audience but for future releases? I'm gonna go wide again across multiple retailers. Either way, 8-10 books published should yield a "survivable" income assuming my future releases do as well, of course. Now, I'm not saying I'd retire cuz 1) I wouldn't with any less than $10K per month, 2) becoming a FT author has never been my dream, and 3) I couldn't live like a superstar on 8-10 books but...
I could pay the bills and feed myself so I'd consider that a "FT income" regardless of retirement status ^_^
Crazy stoked to see what everyone has to say on this topic!!
EDIT: Have got to start proofreading. Heh.
I'm lucky that the industry I work in can be very flexible, I'm a teacher, primarily preschool but can and have taught up to sixth grade. A few years ago I left full time teaching to spend more time writing, so now I do substitute teaching. The benefits are no paperwork and I still get to have fun with kids, plus the pay is really great which means I can work two shorter regular days a week and pick up other days when I feel like it, I also own a rental property, so all of that takes care of my bills and gives me lots of time for writing. I would love to be able to earn a living writing as it is totally my dream! So I'm gonna keep writing, and keep learning more about promoting, and hopefully continue to see my sales go up and up, and compared to what they were this time last year they are doing way better!
Jane wrote: "I'm lucky that the industry I work in can be very flexible, I'm a teacher, primarily preschool but can and have taught up to sixth grade. A few years ago I left full time teaching to spend more tim..."I'm of the same mentality as you: What writer doesn't dream of making their passion their career? So, I'll keep working at it, and I'll keeping trying for that dream--learning and laughing along the way!
Mod
*laughs nervously*
Nah, for reals, I reckon you're right, eh? Most authors have probably been dreaming of writing as their career since forever. Yeah, it's never been my burning passion. Just something I love to do and love to make moolah with cuz, well, that actually IS a burning passion hahaha...
*laughs nervously again*
Tee hee.
I like how open you are about your numbers, Annie. A lot of writers guard it like a secret. I'm not judging them but I'm a number person too and your insights help a lot. It's a great resource for the rest of us, so thank you!
Oh to answer the question. I think it's hard to make a living from writing but not impossible. Just that combination of talent, hard work and a bit of luck. I know one indie Romance writer who is doing very very well. Personally, I love my day job (on sabbatical right now tho) too but I still want to sell 5300 copies of my books (total) to book my dream vacation. :D I told a writer friend who has done quite well saleswise that wanted to sell 5300 copies and she started giving me really good advice then I noticed that she had misunderstood me; she thought I wanted to sell 5300 per month! Lol, I'm an optimist but I'm not INSANE lol.
I'm not making any money yet, but I understand that the 'tipping point' is 8-10 books on the market. Working up to that & then going to see what happens. And by no money, I mean No Money. I've spent more than I've earned. Then again, only publishing book no. 2 in July!I don't work another job, as I have chronic fatigue, so I live in hope of either (a) writing a bunch of bestsellers, or (b) winning the lottery. I think the author thing is an actual possibility tho :-)
Considering I'm (semi) retired, I write full-time. I do work but it is because I need something that my SS doesn't allow...lol. Anyhow, I published my first book Dec. 1. Because I did not promotion or advertising, I consider my paltry sales normal. If you want to make a living at this, then you need to learn to market your book(s). That is what I'm doing now. Once you have that down and several books in the pipeline, you can make a living at it. Just don't expect that six figure income for a couple of years unless you are really good with marketing. The neat thing is, marketing isn't all that difficult once you understand what you need to do, have a plan and spend a few hours a week to do it consistently. For that, you need an internet that works, all the things in place, a good plan and then doing it. (I haven't had a decent internet for over a year hence part of my problem.)
You don't need to spend tons of money on promotion. There are multiple courses out there (For free) which will help you. Set a goal and go for it!
I both love and hate these threads. I quit my job recently because it was awful but before I managed to save enough to give me some time to focus on writing. I'm hoping I can do enough so that I don't have to go back to work. Although, I wouldn't mind something part time at like Target to supplement my writing :DBut these threads are pretty sad because my sanity doesn't have 5 years to wait lol. We'll see what happens I guess!
Mod
You're most welcome, Miss Alexis!
Yeah, I'm pretty darn transparent with my numbers (when people actually wanna know) but even if I wasn't? You can look at any book's rank on Amazon.com and easily figure out roughly how many copies are selling so it's not something that can be kept secret... *evil laugh*
B.A. wrote: "If you want to make a living at this, then you need to learn to market your book(s)."
Yes. So much yes. Totes agree with setting goals too! It ain't easy to go somewhere when you have no clue where the heck you're going, eh? LOL
Writing 8-10 or even 100 books and not taking action to make them visible at all? Well, we'd all just end up with 100 invisible books on Amazon and make very little moolah with em. Of course, it's still hella cool to write 100 books, though!
Jordan wrote: "my sanity doesn't have 5 years to wait lol. We'll see what happens I guess!"
It doesn't necessarily have to take 5 years. I hope haha!
But, nah, I think it just takes a combination of a go-getter attitude, steel balls, and some luck. Good news is that the first two will get you pretty far even without the luck ^_~
TL Clark (author of love) wrote: "Annie: your numbers are amazeballs!
I have 5 books out & don't achieve anywhere near that! Hm, must be doing something wrong!?
Anyways, if it's OK here's my blogpost for new authors"
Aww, thank you, Miss TL!!
Hmm. I don't think it's possible to do anything wrong Just experimenting more to figure out what works. Maybe? Possibly? I dunno for sure haha! And, no. Unfortunately, it's not OK to self-promote individual author sites. So sorry, ma'am!!
Gonna shut up now cuz I just overstayed my welcome in this little thread LMAO!!
Happy Saturday hugsss,
Ann
Mod
You crack me up, Miss TL! But, yeah, no. Sorry.
I am a stay at home mom/per diem nurse practitioner. I'm a lucky duck in that I can do that, which gives me more time to write. That said, I have currently 3 books in publication and another one set to be released soon. I sell....okay. Not fantastic, not terrible.
But I doubt I'll be making a real living at it anytime soon.
That said, I'm happy with any sales/money I make. I'm more at the point of trying to build up an audience, which to me, eventually leads to future sales. At least I hope. I think if you're at this game to make a living then you need to really spend money on the front side to make money on the flip side if that makes sense.
I know some indie authors who spent a ton of money at the start of their careers and it eventually paid off for them. If you don't have a ton of money (which most don't) then I say keep plugging away at the marketing and hanging out with groups like this. This group has a lot of help for authors, as do others out there.
Great question! I wonder this all the time! My family relocated from Charleston, S.C. to the Indianapolis area Yeah, yeah, why would we dare? Hubby's job is why. I have been a public school teacher for over a decade and when we moved, I decided to take the year off and do the mom-at-home thing. Which is way harder than I thought. I needed something for me, and I had always wanted to try writing, and I may or may not have 500+ romance novels on my Kindle so... I sat down in June and wrote. I wrote a couple of hours a week and by September I had 83k words. So I published. Then I wrote another and published in February.I do not make much money off of my books, but I haven't spent anything to advertise. I need to explore that. I did join KDP Select last month to see if I would do better that way. Since Feb 18, I've had over 500 downloads (mostly because I ran a free day) and have 5,000ish pages in KENP, which is like $30 (I think they pay .0058 per page?). But I could have messed up that calculation since I don't have the rules for pages read in front of me. But I have made more money the past 2 months than I did in the last 4 months of 2016. Can't live on what I make from book sales, but I love it, so I'll do it as long as I can. It does get my family a decent meal out once a month, so there's that. :)
I will credit the fine ladies in this group for helping me with the increase. They're the best. <3
Mod
Totes just gave me warm fuzzies. That is all.
Like BA, I am retired and do not need to make a living by my writing. Nor do I plan to. I want to make enough to cover the cost of publishing my novels and I came nowhere close to that with my first novel, which I self-published last November, (sold something like 60 copies.) I hate marketing and am clearly not good at it since I lost a good chunk of money on it. With that said...I work at it nearly full time. I use Rescue Time, a program that tracks your productive time on the computer. I average 30 hours per week on the computer at my writing (including educating myself on various aspects of writing, publishing, and marketing as well as actually doing those things.) But the program doesn't account for the time I spend reading for research, drawing plot and character arcs, time with my editor and other stuff I do without the computer. So I figure that I work at this full time +.
I have a different attitude than most of you. I am going to write, edit, and publish a good quality product and whoever buys it, buys it. I will do a minimal amount of marketing but I'm not spending a lot of time doing something I hate. I'm not into the hassle of a publisher either since I am a control freak and I just don't like their business model as they would likely do very little for an author like me.
I think you can make a living at it if you are willing to do what it takes which takes way more work than your average full-time job, at least writing fiction does anyway.
Cass wrote: "l will credit the fine ladies in this group for helping me with the increase. They're the best. <3"Ah, you're too sweet! I'd say it's your great writing skills and friendly personality:)
Alexis wrote: "Oh to answer the question. I think it's hard to make a living from writing but not impossible. Just that combination of talent, hard work and a bit of luck. I know one indie Romance writer who is d..."Oh yes! Writing for travel money is like the best of both worlds :) I can't think of two things I love more. ;)
Annie wrote: "Okay, this is a great question and I wanna play too!! Tee hee.Yes, I 100% believe you can make a FT living by publishing. Since I'm a numbers person, I totally crunch everything. If that bugs any..."
Dearest Annie,
Will you take me shopping when you hit that 10K goal??? ;) And lunch. I want lunch too! ;)
Amazed at those #'s! Truly awesome.
I started writing two years ago, for "fun" and to work through some things in my personal life. I wasn't sure I would ever publish anything that I wrote. But, then I decided to take the plunge in January and published my first two books. I've sold about 70 copies including KU pages, which is okay. It could be worse, ha!I realized very quickly that marketing is key. I should have been building a platform this entire time, instead of being afraid to tell people that I was writing. Now, I'm playing catch up. I tell myself every day it took hundreds of hours to craft stories and it's going to take hundreds of hours to cultivate fans. The marketing/social media stuff really seems laborious to me, since I'd rather be writing. But I know that I have to do it, if I have any chance of making it as an author. I wish I would have started sooner!
I would love to make a living at this, but it is going to be a lot of work. Probably more so than my full-time job. Only time will tell...
Mod
Lunch is a yes. Shopping is a...umm...how expensive are your tastes? LOL
D.J. wrote: "The marketing/social media stuff really seems laborious to me, since I'd rather be writing. But I know that I have to do it, if I have any chance of making it as an author."
Great attitude, ma'am! Way to keep it real ^_^
I always feel guilty or, maybe, like a fraud when I admit that I didn't always dream of being a writer. I've always loved to read and at times thought that maybe I could do it, but it wasn't a burning passion. Until two years ago. When some unexpected surgery led to a longer than anticipated recovery and to me leaving my full-time job, my husband finally nudged hard enough that I picked up my laptop. Now, I call it a passion. I still work part-time as a substitute teacher. That schedule, combined with handling nearly 100% of the household duties as my husband works very long hours, keeps my writing at a very part-time status.As far as making a living at it...well, not yet! I've had a couple of months after running a free promotion where I've seen sales skyrocket and my royalty checks have been large enough that I could feasibly call it "making a living" but that's only been a couple of times. Marketing is the equivalent of hell for me. Very much an introvert, I find it hard to talk up my books and sometimes to even accept compliments on them. Approaching people to ask for reviews scares the daylights out of me. Maybe it goes back to still thinking of myself as some sort of fraud. Logically I know that without more marketing my chances of going very far are slim, but that doesn't make it any easier. I hear over and over that the key, besides marketing, is to keep writing. Having more material available makes you more visible. Those readers who like what they stumble upon tend to search for other books by that author so there needs to be more there for those readers to find.
I'll keep writing and see what the future brings!
I mentioned Derek Murphy earlier. He has some solid and tested ideas about marketing a book and helping to reach a full-time status or to at least sell a reasonable amount of books.His Book Marketing is Dead: Book Promotion Secrets You MUST Know BEFORE You Publish Your Book is perma-free on Amazon.
I'm currently reading his latest book: Guerrilla Publishing
. It's in KU. I didn't see it here on GR. He's thorough and honest. While no one solution works for everyone, I think he's someone worth investigating. His methods aren't fast, but a fastidious person might do well with them. His books are so comprehensive because he addresses practically every major option out there for spreading the word about a book and why several of the most common approaches aren't working anymore.
Mod
Yes. So much freakin' yes.
Annie wrote: "Kathy wrote: "Derek Murphy"Yes. So much freakin' yes."
Alright, two of you gave Mr. Murphy credit for sound marketing advice so I just downloaded it to my Kindle. Thank you, Kathy & Annie!
Amie wrote: "Annie wrote: "Kathy wrote: "Derek Murphy"Yes. So much freakin' yes."
Alright, two of you gave Mr. Murphy credit for sound marketing advice so I just downloaded it to my Kindle. Thank you, Kathy ..."
So did I!! :)
Although it wasn't free in Amazon UK.
I've only written one novel and several short stories. I read the book on writing by Stephen King and decided to follow his recommendations. So I started with short stories.
I have a ten year plan, by the time I'm 44, I will hopefully have 10 books out and I'll be able to stop working.
Please keep your fingers crossed for me!
Kathy wrote: "I mentioned Derek Murphy earlier. "Ooh, thank you. Paid 99p on Zon UK. I think I can afford that. ;-)
I've been going for 4 years, and currently have 5 books out.
My sales are still really low. Like a handful per month.
I've tried lots of different things, but maybe Mr Murphy's book will give me some new inspiration?
It's annoying; I get really good reviews when people do find by book/s. It's just getting them to notice them in the first place I'm still struggling with ;-/
I know one author who's just about 'making a living' from her book sales. It CAN be done. It's just increasingly difficult to do so.
There are SO many people self-publishing now, and so many sites offering free/discounted books.
I went into Currys last month (to buy a new Kindle) and even the young salesman in there was telling me about the book he's writing!!
So, hope for the best, prepare for the worst.
Write because you love it.
xx
TL Clark (author of love) wrote: "Write because you love it."This! So much! For me, anyway:)
Mod
Rest assured you are neither, ma'am. Either that or we're both guilty frauds...
*shifty eyes*
Nah, seriously, I realize most authors are like "*GASP* how can that not be your lifelong dream??" Umm, how come becoming a neurosurgeon or building schools in Africa ain't your lifelong dream? Cuz it ain't mine either LOL
Yes, I write cuz I love it (hence why I've been writing pretty much since I learned English haha!) but honestly? I publish to make money. Plain and simple. If I didn't care to make money, I'd just make everything perma-free or continue serializing for free online (what I originally was doing). That's just me, though. Other peeps may publish just to have published or a million other reasons. I'd not worry about anyone's judgment about why you publish. It's really not their place to judge anyway, eh? ^_~
Re: Derek Murphy
He really is legit, guys. If you look at our Thursday "advice" posts on the site, I've posted quite a few DM articles lately. Cuz, yeah, legit.
I agree with the idea of writing to make money. I don't think it interferes with writing what a person wants to write unless the story is too extreme for the expectations of the genre. In that case, then authors are writing to tell their own unique story and there's nothing wrong with that.But the idea of being able to write a story that people are willing to pay to read is its own unique reward and feel-good accomplishment, and if there's a way to make enough money to be able to keep writing, then why not go for it? Many stories today required lots of research because readers are checking to make sure authors are getting the facts right. Research takes time, and writers free to do research or to pay someone else to do it can turn out books sooner and live their dream. There are so many authors out there who have to be making enough money to write full-time. Judging by their ranking and the huge number of reviews, I don't see how they could be doing otherwise. So that says it's doable. The real trick seems to be to study how to do it and make it a mapped-out plan as opposed to a hit-or-miss type of thing. It might also require some minor compromises, but as Derek points out in his Guerrilla book, once you're making the money, you can start to experience with writing whatever you want to write however you want to write it.
One other note, in Guerrilla Publishing, Derek provides details and strategies for using paid Amazon ads. These ads are relatively new to the game. I was so glad when I saw the first indie book being promoting via one of them. But DM goes into detail on how to take maximum advantage of this option.
So, I looked at this guy's fiction books and they don't seem to be best sellers. Wouldn't they be, if his advice is sound? Am I missing something?
Mod
And Shearwater is ranked pretty well for a paid book at 25K-ish overall in the Kindle Store.
He makes about roughly $5K per month with his books, which ain't amazeballs, but better than I'm doing LOL so yeah, I'm listening to the dude. And it works for me, even though I'm no bestseller either. Yet ^_~
I think the "write because you love it" message is there to manage expectations.Yes, of course we'd all love to make money from our fantastic book. It's our art, our book babies, our very souls.
Just, don't EXPECT to be the next EL James. It's great if you can but not a given.
Thanks to an afternoon spent reading Mr Murphy my task for tomorrow shall now be updating my author bio. I have neglected that side in all honesty. I sound as exciting as dishwater!? ;-)
It's a good book with some good sound basic advice.
At the end of the day, we are all different and different things will work differently.
But getting the basics right is essential, and he helps show the way.
He also sites other very successful authors' tips in that book btw.
I agree about Derek Murphy. I've also read Nick Stephenson's and Joanna Penn's free books. Have you all seen JA Huss's six part series on marketing? Planning the Perfect Release? Whether or not you like her books, it's got great strategies and a step by step approach for planning a year of book releases, primarily geared towards romance. She is definitely making it as an author. I thought they were great to listen/watch and she answers any questions posed in a very timely manner.Just a thought. Be forewarned...she is a fan of profanity.
Derek talks a lot about setting things up early with his books so they become self-promoting. That seems to be his goal. His books are selling for 99 cents when they could easily sell for $2.99, in which case his income would be a lot more. But he makes book covers and does other things that bring in income. So he can afford to fully test his plans. I mainly like his start-to-finish approach. I've seen lots of marketing tips that just drop a person right in the middle or that aren't organized enough to get the job done in a financially beneficial way.
Plus his support for other authors is great, and he includes it as part of a sound marketing plan.
D.J. wrote: "I agree about Derek Murphy. I've also read Nick Stephenson's and Joanna Penn's free books. Have you all seen JA Huss's six part series on marketing? Planning the Perfect Release? Whether or not you..."I'm going to look at the sources you brought up. I like comparisons and I don't plan to take any action until I've written out my own plan. I do want to find out more about DM's 21 day plan for building an author platform. It's referenced in the book and might already be underway.
Maybe Amazon did a switcheroo thing with me when I searched.
