Fantasy Buddy Reads discussion

June 6th

Moved to May 2nd to read Deadhouse Landing upon release

I started this morning.

About 15% in this has been the best start to any of the ICE books. Having really well known characters leading most of the storylines helps but so does ICE not trying to be overt. He just doesn't pull it off like SE does. He tended to be too obvious in the early words where it was like ya we get don't hit us over the head with it. Then in the later works it was too confusing and I'm still not sure I got it all.

Also nice to see a couple of characters we haven't seen in a long time, one all the way back to MOI.

Through chapter 4.........torn on if I want something to be true......

(view spoiler)[
A tiste andii with amnesia? On the one hand I hope it's Rake because of future Malazan books. On the other hand this rebirth will be completely unexplained and a bit cheesy. Also why in an ICE book and not at the end of TCG?
(hide spoiler)]

Great one liner in chapter 7

(view spoiler)[
‘East. There’s a channel there or I’m a Letherii philanthropist.’
(hide spoiler)]

I'm done. Good ending to the series. ICE has definitely gotten better.

I'm on chapter 2. Definitely looks better than the previous book, though I enjoyed that too. NIce to see some old characters like (view spoiler)[ Fisher, Kyle, and Silverfox..even mentioning Tattersail a number of times! (hide spoiler)]

I think this overall was probably the best book in the series however I think the second half of RotCG was the best section of any book.

It is very promising thus far. Glad I did the kindle/audible combo again. And I agree the second of half of RotCG is amazing.

81% done. Hope to finish this soon.

I'm finding this book would have been read well with a companion map to show where everyone started so I could track it as the book progressed.

Robert wrote: "81% done. Hope to finish this soon.

I'm finding this book would have been read well with a companion map to show where everyone started so I could track it as the book progressed."

I agree. There was one in my kindle edition but I used online ones for reference from time to time.

Finished reading this yesterday. Took me a moment to realise I have gone through the available forward story material. I now know the story. Only thing left is the unpublished books of DanWu's ascendancy and Kharkanas (I am skipping the adventures of the 2 necromancers as they don't seem to add anything to the story).

Back to this book:
I think the land lived up to it's mysterious nature and only the very best were able to survive. I was glad to see a satisfying finish to the T'lan Imass arc. That was well written and provided a sense of completion. There are still a few small niggles remaining in that story, but overall I feel satisfied with the outcome.

Unless ICE+SE are planning to continue the adventures of Crimson Guard, I wish they should have finished that too. As of now, it's really unclear what they are going to do next. (view spoiler)[ I also don't understand how their Vow is similar to Tellan if they are no longer fighting against Malazans. Imass were still alive because they were constantly fighting Jaghuts, Crimson Guard are no longer doing that. So how is their Vow keeping them alive. And also, does this link imply that Azath cannot hold any T'lan Imass in its grounds? I will pay attention to this when I re-read the books. (hide spoiler)]

One of my favourite themes from the whole Malazan series was again on display here: powers overpowering powers who don't think they can be overpowered. (view spoiler)[The best example of that in the book was Crust surviving that icewall. It was humans fighting against the most potent of Jaghut powers and surviving (there was some Jaghut help, but most of the planning and physical efforts was Crust's army). (hide spoiler)] Things like those have made me like these books, and it was awesome to see it again.

Mayank wrote: "Finished reading this yesterday. Took me a moment to realise I have gone through the available forward story material. I now know the story. Only thing left is the unpublished books of DanWu's asce..."

While I wouldn't rush out and buy all the K&KB books when doing the recommended order they do add to the series especially MOI and giving an advanced showing of Koreli and some of places. They are quite different than the main series. They read like Kruppe meets Beetlejuice but are entertaining.

(view spoiler)[
I think the point of the vows was when you take a vow of hate it's worse than death and you cannot escape it even beyond the grave. I actually liked that guard became a new clan of the T'lan Imass.

Keep in mind there's a Karsa trilogy coming out after SE finished Kharkanas. The guard could play into that. Additionally ICE will probably write something after PTA. I actually hope PTA goes longer than 3 books.
(hide spoiler)]

I finished this one today. It wasn’t my favourite book in the series but still an improvement over Blood and Bone (probably my least favourite from Esslemont). Towards the end I had moments that I thought Esslemont wouldn’t pull it off; the book Just wasn’t as intense as RotCG, SW or OST. He finally provided a nice ending and closed of multiple storylines in a satisfying way. It didn’t have a truly ‘explosive’ ending but good nonetheless.

I’m still wondering who the Tiste Andii is
(view spoiler)[ Spinnock Durav ? ... not sure anymore how TCG ended for him (hide spoiler)]

@scott : it seems Erikson will start the Karsa trilogy before ending the Kharkanas trilogy

Jakyro wrote: "@scott : it seems Erikson will start the Karsa trilogy before ending the Kharkanas trilogy."

The Tiste Andii, Jethiss, is (view spoiler)[Anomander Rake but I looked quick and there is a lot of speculation about Spinnock. (hide spoiler)]

Kharkanas if I'm going honest has been disappointing so I don't care that he starts the Karsa story. Forge of Darkness setup a good foundation but Fall of Light he went too political and doing so the character make up of a few people completely changed to meet his needs. They were still 5* efforts but I'd put FoL at the bottom of all of his works, minus the K&KB books.

Scott wrote: "Jakyro wrote: "@scott : it seems Erikson will start the Karsa trilogy before ending the Kharkanas trilogy."

The Tiste Andii, Jethiss, is [spoilers removed]

Kharkanas if I'm going honest has been ..."

Are There any hints that it’s that character? If so, I didn’t really expect that.

Too bad you didn’t like Kharkanas as much as MBotF or ME. I’m taking a break from Malazan for now myself. I’m not one to start incomplete series, and even then I think it’s time for something else. I haven’t read much else besides Malazan this year

Jethiss hints

(view spoiler)[
Fisher studied him, his lined face, his blowing white-streaked hair. ‘I believe you have. You just do not remember it.’

He played late into the evening. At times Jethiss stirred, thrashing on his bedding. It was not until Fisher put away the instrument and lay down upon his own Malazan-issued blankets that he realized he’d unconsciously been playing themes from Anomandaris, his epic lay concerning Anomander Rake.

‘No. The white blade must come. I understand this now. This is no accident, Kyle. This is why we are here.’ (White blade reference is the counterpart to the black blade Rake carried Dragnipur.)
(hide spoiler)]

It's funny though, opinions are wildly split between your answer and mine. So I'm not as convinced I'm right any longer.

7th November Angela and Miche.

Date changed to 21st November.

Miche, how are you looking to start this one on the 21st?

Angela, I just can't seem to get into Blood and Bone. I read a page and I put it down every single time. I might have hit a block with ICE's writing. :(

I will put these two books on hold and just wait for Kharkanas. I will try to come back to these two sometime in the future.

Sorry! :(

Miche wrote: "Angela, I just can't seem to get into Blood and Bone. I read a page and I put it down every single time. I might have hit a block with ICE's writing. :(

I will put these two books on hold and just..."

I struggled with parts of these as well. I think parts of them were confusing but I also think after TCG everything was anticlimactic for a while.

Scott wrote: "I also think after TCG everything was anticlimactic for a while. "

This has been my problem lately. TCG is hard to get over. :)

No problem Miche. I understand.😀

I've just started this and can't believe it looks like one of my longstanding questions might be revealed about Silverfox.

Yes , you must be psyched!

I am Scott! At 12% and so far I'm enjoying what I've read.

Fisher is a lot older than I thought he was. At 50% and enjoying the story. It doesn't seem to have the annoying side characters some of his other books had.

Angela wrote: "Fisher is a lot older than I thought he was."

Think about what you wrote and what it could mean.

Finished. Scott I'll comment once I'm on a computer. I have a suspicion re Fisher. Couple of cool revelations in this book near the end.

Scott (view spoiler)[ I think it's likely Fisher is an Ascendant.

Wow about the Crimson Guard now being like the T'lan Imass and viewed as a new clan. Tragic and a revelation at the same time. I knew something was up and thought it weird Shimmer had survived the shipwreck. I guess that means that they may end up looking how the Imass look in being desiccated?

I think Jethiss is Spinnock Dev. He seems more similar to Spinnock and his comment about going to visit an old friend. I thought that old friend could be the Seerdomin Segda Travos as they were friends.

How ruthless with the T'lan Imass killing people with the Jaghut blood? It was terrible. Now there appear only a few alive who are part Jaghut in that part of the world.

Great to see Silverfox. Finally. Aged and weathered even though she is meant to be a young woman. I did like her scenes but found the ending with the Imass at the judgment with the Forkrul Assail a little underwhelming. However, the enormity of Silverfox's task to find all the T'lan seems impossible with how rapidly she is ageing.

I thought the writing is definitely getting better and this book felt more concise than previous outings. (hide spoiler)]

Angela wrote: "Scott
."

(view spoiler)[The Crimson Guard reveal was awesome and I kept thinking why didn't I see that coming? When you read P2A you meet a lot of the Guard when they were young so it brings this even more into focus.

I think Jethiss is Spinnock as well. I thought he was Anomander the first time through. Some things in Kharkanas also convinced me otherwise.

Fisher is most likely an ascendent, quite possibly Tiste Andii and/or an Azathanai. You'll learn more about the Azathanai in Kharkanas. I've pointed this out before but in MOI Envy has a quote about her sibling and says "he". It's a small thing easily missed. But we meet her brother in Kharkanas. There's a few major theories on who Draconus's son and Spite and Envy's brother is on BotF/Empire. I won't go into who the other two are but Fisher is one. (hide spoiler)]

Scott that reveal really was fantastic. It was one of ICE's better moments! Can't wait for P2A.

(view spoiler)[I think ICE was trying to make it too obvious for a while that it could be Anomander. Great that we think it's the same person.

I've just started Kharkanas and in the book I've met Draconus' son, though I have no idea who that would be in BotF/Empire. (hide spoiler)]

Angela wrote: "Scott that reveal really was fantastic. It was one of ICE's better moments! Can't wait for P2A ..."

Only read if you want my theories on Arathan.

(view spoiler)[Fisher you already know.

Ruthan Gudd is #2. In meeting T'Lan Imass in DoD one of them calls him elder. He obviously has a lot more power than we thought. There's another character you haven't met yet who I also think could be Ruthan Gudd or Edgewalker. Also Gudd say in either DoD or TCG if Draconus and I are to meet again one of us will die.

#3 is Quick Ben. I find this much less likely. You're soon to meet a likely ancestor of QB and I think likely QB is a descendent of this woman and potentially Arathan.

There's also theories that he's Daseem. I don't buy that at all. After reading P2A there's just no way.

(hide spoiler)]

I read your theory Scott and it will be interesting to find out. I take it that you don't know one way or the other yet. I guess maybe it would have been revealed in Khankanas #3 whenever that comes out.

Angela wrote: "I read your theory Scott and it will be interesting to find out. I take it that you don't know one way or the other yet. I guess maybe it would have been revealed in Khankanas #3 whenever that come..."

Or Witness!

Hopefully Scott!

I love my new mod name.

Angela wrote: "Hopefully Scott!

I love my new mod name."

:)

For some strange reason I have notifications switched off for this thread and so I missed it completely. Are we reading this? I am just finishing the Blood and Bone and so I am ready for a smooth transition.

I'm reading it. I think Scott hasn't made a new thread for the BR. But, we can just use this one. I'm currently on Ch 6. And I'm enjoying this one better than the last book.

I finished B&B and I need a breather before I move to Assail. I was underwhelmed by Jacuruku and my favourite character died. :(

End of Ch 8

Cartheron Crust
(view spoiler)[I suppose he had a hidden mission in Assail. not sure if I remember correctly, but didn’t he and the Old Guard back the Talian forces that were defeated by Lasseen? so his mission had something to do with Talian states? I suppose it’s not a coincidence that there’s a noble lady from Gris? (hide spoiler)]

Fisher
(view spoiler)[Jethis really was Anomander?

He also mentioned Forkrul Assail. I suppose the name of the island was referring to them. But, the FAs hadn’t appeared at all in any of ICE’s books so far. I’m not sure how they’re connected with the other parties (Crimson Guards, the war between certain Imass clans and remaining Jaghuts?) (hide spoiler)]

Finished.

Chapter 15
(view spoiler)[I felt that the FAs were a little bit underwhelming compared to Erikson's FAs. In the main series you got the sense of how righteous they thought themselves. And their deep desire to cleanse and purify the world. But, I didn't get the same sense with Arbiter and his partner here. In fact, they were extremely kind in agreeing to a peaceful accord between the races, compared to the FAs that we met in the Malazan BOTF that insisted on pure genocide. So, I guess there were different factions in FAs?

I love that the ending was a positive ending, with all the races agreeing to a peaceful resolution. Moreover, the different factions at Mantle all working together to basically stave off "natural disasters". Too bad that Ut'hel didn't find out Lanas's deceit until the very end.

But, on one hand it's a bit disheartening to see that realistically to have a worldwide peace, you gotta have a mutually assured destruction element, in this case the FAs. In our real world, probably the nuclear weapons. (hide spoiler)]

Crimson Guards
(view spoiler)[Yeah, I got the similarity between their Vow and the T'Lan Imass' Vow and the similar results. However, if it's true that they're not able to die, then does it mean that all the Brethren chose not to partake in the living world any longer? (hide spoiler)]

Jethiss
(view spoiler)[While ICE tried to strongly hint that he's Anomandaris, I read Scott's comments that he thought Jethiss was Spinnock. I don't remember if Anomander Rake's parting message to Spinnock when he sent him away was the same as what Jethiss himself mentioned of how he had to lose himself to find a new identity. And I don't remember Mother Dark saying anything to Anomander Rake of that nature.

Also, Jethiss mentioned that he was planning to visit and pay honor at an important grave at Coral. The last time I remember Spinnock he was fighting Kallor. But, I believe that wasn't at Coral, was it? (hide spoiler)]

Barry how do you liked it overall? I started but stopped and read another book. I thought I could go back to Assail but now I have started a new novel already.

I find it indescribably boring. I think my main problem with this series is that it does not have a proper main arc. The small tales and trajectories we encounter across the books do not really add up. Maybe the Crimson Guard one is more prominent than the others but I am wondering is it because that is actually true or because we ended up on Assail where nothing else is going on.

Alrealy with B&B I had the same problem: that is the fact that these books capitalise more on locations than on plots. The main appeal is that we get to see places absent (or mysteriously allueded to) in BotF. To the contrary, the tales it tells are (in majority) very lame.

And what is the main one? Night of Knives started with Kiska and so somewhere entirely else.

I am very conflicted here.

Hey! Im just now gettin with the program after the holidays.
Glad to find you here!

Ill be here in a few days, I THINK 😳😳😳

Mayim wrote: "I finished B&B and I need a breather before I move to Assail. I was underwhelmed by Jacuruku and my favourite character died. :("

Who was your favorite?!? Skinner?

I really found Jacuruuku to be boring, I think that was one big problem for me. The whole thing with Celeste and the forest in the Shadow Realm confused me! Plus, Kallor and Skinner, I kept having to iron straight everytime their POV was up, because descriptions were so similar.

Nah, it was Prince Janaf. I love characters built on contradictions and hence full of tensions and he was a perfect specimen of that: a prince yet one of many and born of a lesser concubine; sent for war yet a poet and a scholar; family expendable yet clearly with more sense to him than his inheriting brothers, etc.

I don't care about Skinner the rest of the Crimson Guard. Quite frankly I think that they outlived their usefulness (and that has been apparent in BotF already!) and have no patience for them as a formation so I try to approach the lot on a "individual by individual" basis.

@ Mayim and Jess

Well, you might not enjoy Assail also, because it's also focused on a specific location. And yes, some of the plots were kind of forced to fit into the location. The endings were a mixed bag. For a few characters, I thought the ending was underwhelming ((view spoiler)[e.g. the Crimson Guard, the mild-mannered FAs, which I've written in my previous post (hide spoiler)]). I really enjoyed the sections on Jute and Reuth. I thought their journeys were definitely the most interesting threads in the book. There's also another interesting arc wrt Fisher and a certain companion of his in this book that ended in another mystery. But, I thought the endings were in alignment with the themes that Erikson and ICE were focusing on throughout the series : the cost of war and the folly of humans.

Also, if the Malazan BOTF can be considered as the story of Fiddler, this series can be considered as the story of Kyle. And I thought he got a nice conclusion to his journey.

I also agree that I found the Crimson Guard to be rather underwhelming after the interesting introductions that we got of them. They're one of the weaker threads in this book, too.

Started today.
Ch 1 spoiler(view spoiler)[ Beru-fend! We found Silverfox!!!! (hide spoiler)]