The Sword and Laser discussion

A SciFi book is mysteriously returned after 35 years,  at the same time a billionaire suddenly invests in brain implants and a skull begins to talk. Are these events connected somehow? Yes. They're all discussed in this episode along with Gateway by Frederick Pohl.

http://swordandlaser.com/home/2017/3/...
https://www.patreon.com/posts/8626747
https://soundcloud.com/swordandlaser/...

Tom says, "He [Pohl] makes that scene so that you understand something about Rob." Isn't that the problem, though? The scene is happening to Klara, but the author makes it all about Rob.

Brendan wrote: "Tom says, "He [Pohl] makes that scene so that you understand something about Rob." Isn't that the problem, though? The scene is happening to Klara, but the author makes it all about Rob."

Yes, but I think it can be both.

Brendan wrote: "Tom says, "He [Pohl] makes that scene so that you understand something about Rob." Isn't that the problem, though? The scene is happening to Klara, but the author makes it all about Rob."

That's a separate question.

A book is often about one character's perspective. This book is from Bob's perspective. If it suddenly shifted to Klara that would be a problem. And if the book was from Klara's perspective it would be a different story altogether. Perhaps that's a story you'd rather hear but it's not the story Pohl decided to tell.

I don't think the problem is that Rob is unlikable -- plenty of great characters are troubled and unlikable, the poster boy being Holden Caulfield -- but that the attempts to psychoanalyze him are superficial at best and completely miss the target.

Rob gets everything he's ever wanted and isn't happy because of his survivor's guilt, but he was deeply damaged before that. Problem being, said damage was Psych 101-level silliness. I think that's the real issue most people are having with this book: Rob does terrible things but is never punished. Sure, terrible people get rich all the time, that's not a surprise, but Pohl doesn't really get at anything new in his version while adding extra reasons to hate Rob.

In other words, beating Klara is unnecessary and a bridge too far. The ending of the book should be more than enough for him to be troubled and unhappy. Unremarked-upon abuse detracts rather than adds to his story.

This changes Rob from being a tragic figure into being an irredeemable asshole. Rob blames himself for abandoning the others but so what? They aren't dead, btw, and have literally never progressed beyond the moment when the hatch closes, so there is still time to save them - in fact, there is all the time in the universe. But what he did to Klara can't be taken back and he feels zero remorse about that.

No one calls him on his actual failings, and Pohl never acknowledges those. He misses the target.

I am really glad you guys brought up that you can remember what you were doing when you listened to a particular book. A few episodes ago someone had asked about a discussion in a way previous episode, and I could picture the exact street I was walking along when I'd been listening to that earlier episode! So I have those mental flashbacks for podcasts as well as books!

With regards to the Expanse, Ty tweeted that for their show SyFy is looking mostly at the +3 ratings, so I'm sure overnights are still important, but they said if you're in the US you can best help them by watching the show within 3 days of airing.

I think it's good that SyFy is being more flexible about the ratings, but as Ty points out there are several factors here. One is the studio who makes the show, and another is the various companies that distribute the episodes (SyFy in the US, Space in Canada, Netflix in many other countries).

The best support it sounded like was to watch it on SyFy/Space, compared to say buying the episodes on iTunes or Amazon. But I'd think if nothing else supporting the studio would matter more than the channel. I'd think that if SyFy/Space dropped it in the US/Canada but the studio was willing to make more, that Netflix would pick up the distribution rights in those markets.

SyFy calls it one of their originals, but I'm not sure how much of the creation of the show they finance. They have called many shows in the past a SyFy Original when they had nothing to do with it's creation. It mostly seems to be a be a label for shows they air first/exclusively in the US is all.

Personally I go to bed before it airs on Wednesdays, so I always watch the Expanse the day after. I also have season one on BluRay (which comes uncensored and with a digital copy). I'd have pre-ordered season 2 already if I could, but I'll definitely be buying it.

I do love this trend that they film the show uncensored and release it that way later. Now if only they can just get over it and air it that, especially since it's on at 10pm. Just give it a TV-MA (L) and move on. On a recent episode I feel like they didn't really filter Avasarala cursing that well, to the point that I wasn't sure if they were just letting it through or not.

I think that TV and books have a similar problem. TV is probably worse thanks to Netflix (plus the fact that TV costs a lot more to have made than a book does). Many people prefer to consume a complete story. So they wait for the season to end and binge. Or they wait for all the books to be published and read them at once. The problem is, if too many people opt to do that, the people with the money may not pay for that next episode/season or book, and it could end up incomplete.

I definitely wait and binge for some shows, but for something like the Expanse, I make it a point to watch as soon as I can because I do worry the ratings aren't good enough for the series to be completed, which would be a shame because after Orphan Black (which is ending) it's my favorite thing on TV right now.

I also struggle a bit with doing new books in a series as they come out. Trying to remember everything when it's 1-2 years (or longer for some series) without a reread is a struggle. But I'm fortunate enough to be able to afford to buy whatever books I want when they come out, so I have several series/authors I support by doing so.

Others I'll wait for/borrow from the library. At this point the number of on-going series I'm juggling is a bit much, but it usually means there is almost always a new book to look forward to every month or so.

Most authors I've seen on the subject say that borrowing their books from the library helps, and if demand is high enough a library may purchase additional copies, so even if you don't have the money to buy a lot of books, reading books closer to their release helps. Of course all of this could just be PR on their part.

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I'd also like to add that I'm happy to be done with this book. Not because I didn't like it. I just don't like to hear how many people "don't like Rob" or "what a horrible person Rob is".

Rob wrote: "...I'd also like to add that I'm happy to be done with this book. Not because I didn't like it. I just don't like to hear how many people "don't like Rob" or "what a horrible person Rob is".
"

Heh. I am with you, Rob. The bitching gets tiresome. ;-)

Clyde wrote: "I am with you, Rob. The bitching gets tiresome."

Well I just meant I kept getting confused that people were talking about me :(

I agree with most that the character in the book is awful, although that didn't stop me from mostly enjoying the book.

Rob, piggybacking off the cursing-on-Syfy front, I watched a few more Expanse episodes, and the closed-captioning says "fu--ing" or "fu--" for the censoring. In the case of "fu--ing" I wouldn't be surprised if your mind is filling in the -ck- when you hear a f- followed by -ing.

David wrote: "Rob, piggybacking off the cursing-on-Syfy front, I watched a few more Expanse episodes, and the closed-captioning says "fu--ing" or "fu--" for the censoring. In the case of "fu--ing" I wouldn't be ..."

Probably. But if that's how they censor it, they may as well not even bother IMHO. But if it makes them/their advertisers happy to have this placebo effect, so be it I guess.

Rob wrote: "Clyde wrote: "I am with you, Rob. The bitching gets tiresome."

Well I just meant I kept getting confused that people were talking about me :("

Dint thinka dat

dats heckin bad

Dint mean do u a frighten

u needs nose boops?

I gave Gateway one star, not because the protagonist is a POS character, only because the character was a POS only to women. Plus a character that would excuse his violence by claiming Alpha Dog status could not have Survivor Guilt over the death of fellow human beings in my opinion.
I have read the ultimate POS character Harry Flashman. If you going to write the anti-hero that is how you do it. The Flashman is a POS to everyone.
The Magicians is getting way with cuss words with the shortest beep in history of Television. I wish the Expanse took a similar path.
Lastly Rob is my hero.

Tom Merritt, I always like your insights about the books we are reading, but this time you hit the mark so precisely and with so much force... that I hope you didn't get hurt!

Congratulations!

Trike wrote: "I don't think the problem is that Rob is unlikable -- plenty of great characters are troubled and unlikable, the poster boy being Holden Caulfield -- but that the attempts to psychoanalyze him are ..."

I agree with a lot of that, though I didn't even necessarily wanted to see Rob punished. Many people do terrible things and get away with them.
My problem was that to me there was nothing sympathetic about Rob very thing he did was selfish and self centered. What really left a bad taste in my mouth that no one seemed to even acknowledge Rob's constant selfishness much less confront him about it. Most people continued to help and like him even though he does nothing to redeem himself on any level.

I will second the mail and recommendation for The Screaming Staircase (the Lockwood & Co series). He is also the author of the excellent Bartimaeus Sequence. If you like middle-grade reads, you will definitely enjoy this. It is very well written, great and memorable characters, and funny as well. It is light enough but not a popcorn trashy forgettable read. Not to mention there are parts in the book that's seriously SCARY. The last book (there are five) will come out this year.

Wow, I got 2 mentions in this podcast! Must award myself an extra biscuit from my souvenir London tin :)