Space Opera Fans discussion

I'm sorry if this comes across as self-promotion; it's really not intended as such. I'm just curious.

I'm writing a novel that's in the same setting as my space opera stuff, so clearly it's a space opera too, yes?

Not so much. You see, the plot has virtually nothing to do with anything space opera-ish. The closest thing, plot wise, to any of the normal space opera elements is that the viewpoint character starts the story as a spy for one world and assassin for another, and this leads to him spending some time kicking butt because the world he was assassinating people for looks very dimly on spies. The plot itself is about him falling in love and how that changes his whole outlook on everything and leads to him finally growing up and making his peace with family and friends he'd wronged when he ran away from home as a teen.

So which is it? A space opera that just happens to be a romance, or a romance that uses space opera trappings? I know what I think, but I want to hear others take.

It could go either, from the description.

What do you, as the author think it is? That is what is important.

It would depend on how strong the 'alien assassin' subplot is. Since Amazon lets you list on two BIASC categories, I think the important thing is to disclose the strong romantic subtrappings in your book description if you choose 'space opera' as one of your categories so you don't disappoint readers.

Anna wrote: "It would depend on how strong the 'alien assassin' subplot is."

It kicks things off and is always in the background, occasionally coming to the foreground for a fight scene, including at least one that lands the main character in the hospital for a few days, which with 24th century medicine is a pretty major injury. It also is the cause of some of the arguments he has with his girlfriend.

I guess then the question would be, who do you hope to market this book to? Most romance novels these days are either super-smutty, super sweet/Christian market, or feature Young Adult characters. Unfortunately nothing 'normal' sells that well these days. But it's possible to edit your book so it hits enough of the 'sweet' spots to legitimately market it to a core genre audience. Honestly, with the exception of the fact this takes place in the 24th century, it sounds like what you're describing is 'romantic suspense.' Perhaps you might want to pick up a few romantic suspense best=sellers at your local library, read them, and then compare it to what goals you hope to accomplish with your own book? If you have your target audience in mind, it's a lot easier to meet their expectations.

It's definitely not a romantic suspense; the spy/assassin bit is nowhere near a big enough part of the plot for that. It colors events more than it causes them, I guess is the best way to put it.

Anyway, I'm marketing it as a romance because romance outsells any sort of sf by a large margin according to all statistics I've ever seen AND because the relationship drives the plot; I was just wanting to know what others thought.

And, because this could become useful info to me in the future, can I -- in the appropriate folder, of course -- promote romances that happen to be in a space opera setting here, or does the space operaishness have to be the main thing?

Discussing this elsewhere, I realized there's no way it's anything but a romance that happens to be in a space opera setting. Because if I strip the plot down to its bare bones, it's "boy meets girl, they fall in love, cue wedding bells" with complications from his past and his immaturity sprinkled in to make it worthy of being a story.

I happen to -like- romance with a space opera twist :-) For purposes of other members of this community, I think it's just important you disclose the romantic main plot so the manly-men don't get girl cooties on them :-) I mean, I don't think it would be eligible for an Indie Pick for Book of the Month Club as 50% of the readers most likely wouldn't be interested in it (at least not admit to be interested) and the whole point of BOTM club is to be inclusive, but I have no problems with you putting a link to it down in 'self promotion' or if you run a KDP free day, a link in the We Found Free Ebooks folder. Disclosure is the key. I have a friend who is a contractor who enjoys paranormal fantasy with a mild romantic subplot and he was listening to an audiobook in the car with 5 other construction workers when they got to one of THOSE scenes. Yeah ... he said he almost broke his CD player yanking the disc out. Disclosure :-)

Genres are getting curiouser and curiouser as Alice might remark. I've encountered supernatural "romance" books by women, for women that as as explicit as one can get. So maybe it's less about "adventure with romance" vs. "romance with adventure" than whether the adventure and the romance serve the story. Instead of the story being an excuse for the adventure and/or romance. For me, the sex and/or romance has to further the plot, represent the issues or otherwise belong in the larger story to be believable enough to enjoy. Other kinds of important relationships - friends, leader/follower, parent/child can spice up the stakes in a life and death struggle, too.

I think I read it in a blog by one of the big-name romance writers, but they said when your characters have sex, everything about that scene should reveal who your characters are internally, from the things that catch their attention as they get closer to the internal fears that come up and awkwardness of the before and after moments. What impressed me most about this piece of advice was that you don't have to get explicit spelling out blow-by-blow the sex act, but can use innuendo, and still be effective in giving a story that romantic element.

Anna wrote: "I think I read it in a blog by one of the big-name romance writers, but they said when your characters have sex, everything about that scene should reveal who your characters are internally, from t..."

My wife writes teen romance, and her newest book has a sex scene that is not the slightest bit explicit, yet it was one of the best sex scenes I've ever read because instead of giving you a blow-by-blow of what's being done, she showed how the people involved felt. For that particular book, I thought it was a really good way to handle the characters losing their virginity because up to then the book had been very "sweet". If she'd gotten explicit about what they were doing, it would've ruined the romance of the scene.

On the other hand, the main character of the book I'm talking about in this thread . . . he's not so much with the whole "feelings" thing at the beginning. He starts the story looking for a vacation fling. So, if I'd included the sex scene that happens about three pages in instead of fading to black before it, I'd have been explicit, because there wasn't really anything romantic about it. It's all about what works best for the story.

Shannon wrote: "...instead of giving you a blow-by-blow of what's being done, she showed how the people involved felt...."

I think ultimately that's what romance readers want, anyways. The vicarious FEELING of being in love for the first time and becoming that vulnerable. I have this Captain America fanfiction I wrote where Steve Rogers finally loses his virginity and, because I had so many teen readers I kept it non-explicit. My older readers were egging me on for pure smut, but when I was done, they were all okay with it for the same reason you just described. How was it the Greeks described their ancient theater? Catharsis? As long as there is catharsis, it's all good :-)

Anna wrote:
I think ultimately that's what romance readers want, anyways. The vicari..."

The rule of thumb I've read is, same as with anything, if you could leave the sex scene out and the story or understanding of the characters or setting doesn't change at all, it should be left out.

Some of the best sex scenes are suggested on the page and played out in the reader's head. :-)

Lynda wrote: "Some of the best sex scenes are suggested on the page and played out in the reader's head. :-)"

Yeah, Kim Harrison does this very well in her novels.

I can remember reading such a scene in one of the "Merry Gentry" series. And it wasn't that it was explicit and in-yer-face, but I still had to go and take a cold shower after I finished reading it.

Lynda wrote: "Some of the best sex scenes are suggested on the page and played out in the reader's head. :-)"

I just wish more authors would realize this. I have read so many badly done explicit sex scenes lately, mostly of the sort TVTropes calls IKEA erotica, that I've actually considered reading only YA fiction for a while so I can get a break from them!

It's like the old gag of the difference between erotic and kinky.

Erotic is when you use a feather to tickle your lover.
Kinky is when you use the whole damn chicken.

Ronnie wrote: "It's like the old gag of the difference between erotic and kinky. Erotic is when you use a feather to tickle your lover. Kinky is when you use the whole damn chicken."

[*snort*]

[*now has to go hunt down tissue to wipe up coffee that just passed through nose*]

I think if an author isn't comfortable writing sex scenes, then it will show in their writing. To write them, you have to almost get into that 'place' yourself. I think it's better to bone up on how to write a 'sweet' sex scene that fades to black before they do the deed than to write a bad one.

[*now I'm going to have an image of that DAMNED chicken in my head the next time I write one ... sheesh, Ronnie! You're such a troublemaker*]

One does ones best. ;)

But seriously, if one feels uncomfortable writing sex scenes, then don't write them. Try writing the "before" and the "after", and leave the "during" to your audience's imagination.

Anna was spot on, at least to how I enjoy romance - it's the feeling of love and the vulnerability it brings.

I've written many fanfics that fans would nominate in the romance categories and they had no kissing, the characters who were in love were barely together. I've also written steamy scenes because you can learn a lot about show not tell but prefer to let the readers' imagination take them places.

'Shippers get a lot of flack but caring about two characters and their future is a powerful attraction for many readers.

Shannon wrote: "Lynda wrote: "Some of the best sex scenes are suggested on the page and played out in the reader's head. :-)"

I just wish more authors would realize this. I have read so many badly done explicit ..."

IKEA erotica! That's hilarious.

In the last half of my series, I tackled the "over hyped" aspect of sex. Protagonist infamous for being "The Courtesan Prince" marries virgin princess. What are their problems? Set in the midst of a galactic crisis, of course, to keep things brisk. Pleased with the complexities and surprising conflicts that emerged. Like every other aspect of a story, sexual encounters must have dramatic tension IMHO. I think that's why readers today can still find Darcy and Elizabeth "hot" despite the very low to vanishing level of physical contact between them in Price and Prejudice.

Since I'm one of the many Iron Man I 'Pepperony' shippers, that movie really didn't have any explicit romance between the two, but the way Tony and Pepper immediately began to orbit around each other every time they were in the same room and the zing-for-zing comfort level and CARING between them screamed SHIPPER!!! Yeah ... I've got this 98,000 word Tony/Pepper fanfiction out there inspired by all that Unresolved Sexual Tension.