The Readers Review: Literature from 1714 to 1910 discussion

Ok! The first of our four reading sections for this (relatively) short but hopefully excellent work by Émile Zola. This is a first read for me and I've only read a single novel of his prior to this so I'll likely be more of a novice than some other readers who will (hopefully) be joining in.

My first impression is that this is going to be a fantastic read :-) The imagery Zola has already conjured up of this little slice of Paris has left a strong impression on me.

At the end of the Rue Guenegaud, coming from the quays, you find the Arcade of the Pont Neuf, a sort of narrow, dark corridor running from the Rue Mazarine to the Rue de Seine. This arcade, at the most, is thirty paces long by two in breadth. It is paved with worn, loose, yellowish tiles which are never free from acrid damp. The square panes of glass forming the roof, are black with filth.

This opening paragraph seemed to encapsulate many of the themes and ideas which I have picked up from the first few chapters.

1. What did you think of all of the imagery of darkness, dirt and decay? Do you think that Zola believed that living in a place like this could/would affect the psyche of a person?

2. The Arcade of the Pont Neuf is not only dark and dirty it is small and enclosed. It is a small part of a city, narrow and almost claustrophobic in feeling. Does anyone else feel that there are similarities between the physical location and the mental restrictions placed on Thérèse Raquin?

3. Deceit. I found this a little more subtle but the imagery of the glass, which should be transparent and clear, is also covered with filth and grime. Who is practicing deceit in these first few chapters?

On fine days in the summer, when the streets are burning with heavy sun, whitish light falls from the dirty glazing overhead to drag miserably through the arcade. On nasty days in winter, on foggy morning, the glass throws nothing but darkness on the sticky tiles - unclean and abominable gloom.

4. Summer and light is usually a sign of happiness in a novel. Here is seems that even on bright sunny days the joy is leeched out of the very atmosphere. Has there been any true happiness in this story so far? If so where was it and under what circumstances?

5. What do you think of the relationship between Thérèse and her mother in law and her husband and lover? Do you think she cares for any of these people?

6. What do you think about the characters of the main protagonists. Who do you think has the strongest character? Who do you think is the most selfish?

Therese was happy when she was able to be outdoors in nature. She had a sort of imprisoned childhood because of her cousin and later an imprisoned adulthood in Paris. It's striking how little autonomy and control of her own movements she has.

What a depressing setting! It would drive me crazy too. I wonder how her aunt and cousin would have reacted if she had made some suggestions about how she would like her life to be - if she had asked not to share her cousin's bed, or to go with her aunt to Paris to help choose the apartment, for example. It doesn't sound like she was actually forced into anything, and her aunt isn't a bad person who would have ignored her niece's needs if she had known about them.

Yes, the symbolism is very strong in this book. I'm enjoying it too.

All of the characters are selfish in their own way. I'm not sure who was the most selfish at the beginning, but I suppose Therese crossed that line by entertaining the idea of killing Camille.

Interesting to note how little of a prize Laurent is. For some reason I'm comparing him in my mind with Phoebus from The Hunchback of Notre Dame. Phoebus, although a shallow, selfish person who was also a coward, appeared to be brave and charming. Laurent, in contrast, doesn't pretend to be other than he is - lazy and selfish, and a bad painter to top it off - but Therese falls for him anyway because she's never known anything better.

Robin wrote: "Therese was happy when she was able to be outdoors in nature. She had a sort of imprisoned childhood because of her cousin and later an imprisoned adulthood in Paris. It's striking how little auton..."

Yes I think that that is a happy memory. But I also wonder if Madam Raquin didn't enjoy herself in Paris when she was a young mercer and also she had great joy in mothering her son.

Camille also seems contented with his life. He was and is sickly but he seemed to be strong enough to work as he grew older and he became bored with being kept at home. He over ruled his mothers concerns and showed that he as well had the sort of personality which expected people to give way to what he wants.

And then there is Laurent, a man who seems to live entirely for pleasure. Is he happy?

Lori wrote: "What a depressing setting! It would drive me crazy too. "

Zola was a writer at the forefront of the Naturalism movement and that focused heavily on the importance of the physical environment and outside forces which shape people into who they are.

It doesn't sound like she was actually forced into anything, and her aunt isn't a bad person who would have ignored her niece's needs if she had known about them.

I wondered about that myself. She seemed so apathetic about everything. Is that because she was convinced that it wouldn't do her any good to protest or was her strength of will slowly leeched out of her during her childhood and it didn't really even occur to her that she could protest?

All of the characters are selfish in their own way. I'm not sure who was the most selfish at the beginning, but I suppose Therese crossed that line by entertaining the idea of killing Camille.

This was first suggested by Laurent though as I recall.

Lori wrote: "Laurent, in contrast, doesn't pretend to be other than he is - lazy and selfish, and a bad painter to top it off - but Therese falls for him anyway because she's never known anything better.

Laurent seems to be totally amoral as well as selfish. His lack of concern for his father is pretty heartless - he's just waiting around and hoping he'll die so he can inherit his estate and be able to go back to painting and lazing around.

Nicola wrote “Zola was a writer at the forefront of the Naturalism movement and that focused heavily on the importance of the physical environment and outside forces which shape people into who they are”

This is my first Zola and I’m finding it powerful stuff. The writing is just gorgeous. From the opening images of squalid dinginess and confinement to the strongly drawn characters I’ve been sucked in and I hope I can pace myself and not just gallop through the novel.

What has really struck me, in addition to the imagery and characters (I think Camille and Laurent are both equally rotten but in different ways) has been the vibrant earthiness of the writing, passages such as ‘…but inwardly she lived a burning, passionate existence. When alone on the grass beside the water, would lie down flat on her stomach like an animal, her black eyes wide open, her body writhing, ready to spring. And she stayed there for hours, without a thought, scorched by the sun, delighted at being able to thrust her fingers in the earth’ Nicola’s comment above has helped me appreciate the context of that. I think the writing is sensual, like the character of Laurent. Who is the most selfish? So far I think it’s really a toss-up between Camille and Laurent.

Please forgive any breaches in protocol and/or formatting. It's the first time I've participated and I can't work out how to do italics etc...

SarahHannah, I am glad you are enjoying Zola, one of my favourite authors. I read this book a few years ago, but I still remember his ability to create atmosphere. He is an amazing writer.

SarahHannah wrote: This is my first Zola and I’m finding it powerful stuff. The writing is just gorgeous. From the opening images of squalid dinginess and confinement to the strongly drawn characters I’ve been sucked in and I hope I can pace myself and not just gallop through the novel.."

Oh my goodness, me too! It gripped me right from the very first paragraph; so delicously atmospheric!

I can't remember if my previous Zola read (L'Assommoir (The Dram Shop)) was as easy a read as this. It was certainly very good but it was pretty grim...

Please forgive any breaches in protocol and/or formatting. It's the first time I've participated and I can't work out how to do italics etc...

Don't worry about that! But if you want to do any formatting you just need to place around the text < i and then close it with > at the start and at the end of the text you are italicizing < / i and close with a >. You obviously place them together and remove all the spaces but I can't because if I did then you wouldn't actually see them as it would just recognize it as html script code.

Welcome to your first group read and I'm really happy you're enjoying it :-)

SarahHannah wrote: I think the writing is sensual, like the character of Laurent. Who is the most selfish? So far I think it’s really a toss-up between Camille and Laurent. "

Camille is definitely a selfish person - this really slices him open for us:
The tenderness, the devotedness of his mother had instilled into him an egotism that was ferocious. He fancied he loved those who pitied and caressed him: but, in reality, he lived apart, within himself, loving naught but his comfort, seeking by all possible means to increase his enjoyment

That feeling of isolation again - these three people really don't interact with each other even though they should be, by rights, extremely close through both blood connection and physical proximity.

And Therese herself, I think she has a wild and sensual nature which was dammed up like a river until it finally burst its banks.

This obligatory life of a convalescent caused her to retire within herself. She got into the habit of talking in a low voice, of moving about noiselessly, of remaining mute and motionless on a chair with expressionless, open eyes. But, when she raised an arm, when she advanced a foot, it was easy to perceive that she possessed feline suppleness, short, potent muscles, and that unmistakable energy and passion slumbered in her soporous frame... she kept all the impetuosity of her nature carefully concealed within her. She possessed supreme composure, and an apparent tranquility that masked terrible transports.

When she saw the garden, the clear river, the vast green hillocks ascending on the horizon, she felt a savage desire to run and shout. She felt her heart thumping fit to burst in her bosom; but not a muscle of her face moved... but inwardly she lived a burning, passionate existence.

Lori wrote: "Interesting to note how little of a prize Laurent is. For some reason, I'm comparing him in my mind with Phoebus from The Hunchback of Notre Dame. Phoebus, although a shallow, selfish person who was also a coward, appeared to be brave and charming."

Great analogy! I wonder if the idea becomes the real attractant over time? You know we've all encountered a few frogs that appeared to be otherwise. But what separates the duped from the willing is the inability to admit they're wrong. Oftentimes they've traveled pretty deep down the rabbit hole and turning back would be torturous to their esteem.

The burning question through it all is when we learn the truth why don't we change our course? ;-)

I finished the 9 first chapters. Who made this schedule was so mean. Now I have to wait till May 14 to know what happens next. I do not want to read before the schedule.

Rafael, if I want to read ahead, I make short notes for each chapter so that I don't forget anything but especially to avoid spoilers.
Good luck waiting until the 14th, if that is what you decide to do.

I will wait, to read with everyone.

Rafael wrote: "I finished the 9 first chapters. Who made this schedule was so mean. Now I have to wait till May 14 to know what happens next. I do not want to read before the schedule."

I know! So cruel :-)

I'll probably read it a day or so ahead though so I'm ready with my thoughts and comments on the day :-) So I don't think that's 'cheating' as it were.

Although, as Rosemarie says, feel free to read it all in one go if you like, just remember to keep spoilers for 'unread' chapters out of the weeks discussion.

When I first read the opening chapter I couldn't quite work out if the shop of Madame Raquin was now deserted.

A few years back, opposite this dealer, stood a shop whose bottle-green woodwork excreted damp by all its cracks.

With this and the description of the goods in the window Each article had grown yellow and crumpled and along with a heap of soiled and faded articles, which doubtless had been lying in the same place for five or six years. All the tints had turned dirty grey in this cupboard, rotting with dust and damp.

What a way to showcase your business!

Nicola wrote: "Rafael wrote: "I finished the 9 first chapters. Who made this schedule was so mean. Now I have to wait till May 14 to know what happens next. I do not want to read before the schedule."

I know! So..."

You are the mean person? :P

I know, Rosemarie and Nicola, but I prefer wait or I can spoiler to someone unintentionally.

Nicola wrote: "SarahHannah wrote: This is my first Zola and I’m finding it powerful stuff. The writing is just gorgeous. From the opening images of squalid dinginess and confinement to the strongly drawn characte..."

Thanks so much! I missed this post :-O Let me try this formatting a>

Sarah wrote: The burning question through it all is when we learn the truth why don't we change our course? ;-) "

I think that's an excellent question Sarah! I think that the idea is very often the attractant. And being so far down the rabbit hole (very well put) This is a kind of 'slot-machine syndrome' that I remember reading about somewhere. After so much personal and emotional investment into something, it's often hard to walk away. And we just keep on. Deluding ourselves.