Christian Theological/Philosophical Book Club discussion

This is the place to ask your theological questions. Go for it...

I think my understanding of "This generation" in the New Testament is different from the way it is taught in theology school which I have not attended. In Matthew or the first book of the New Testament, "this generation" is different than all the "begat"s of the Old Testament because Jesus doesn't have physical descendants only spiritual ones which John the Baptist seems to confirm when he talks of "This generation of vipers, who told you to flee from the wrath to come." Everytime Jesus says This Generation, he means everyone for that repents and is baptized since that time of John the Baptist? Is that theology?

This is definitely "theology". I would say that a good place to start on a subject like this is to look up the definitions of the original language words.

Matthew 11:16 - "But whereunto shall I liken this generation ? It is like unto children sitting in the markets, and calling unto their fellows,"

Greek word = 'genea' - definition = Strong's G1074 - genea - "γενεά geneá, ghen-eh-ah'; from (a presumed derivative of) G1085; a generation; by implication, an age (the period or the persons):—age, generation, nation, time."

One thing to be aware of, the biblical languages have far LESS words than English; therefore, the same word is often used in many different ways.

Thank you for your words because that post confirms that this generation is all the Children of God. I particularly like the song We Shall Behold Him and I've heard reference of the Children of God surrounded or gathered together around their Morning Star which I assume is Jesus. Is that something in the bible?

Revelation 22:16 - "I Jesus have sent mine angel to testify unto you these things in the churches. I am the root and the offspring of David, and the bright and morning star."

Here are a couple of web site tools you can use for free...

BibleGateway is a great source for various Bible translations. There are more than 50 in English alone. Here is the link:

http://www.biblegateway.com

BlueLetterBible is another source which includes dictionaries, lexicons, commentaries, etc.

https://www.blueletterbible.org
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I find that misunderstandings about the Bible and confusion can largely be resolved by a few simple things (not all difficult passages... but many!)

1) Read what the Bible actually says. Don't read into it what you THINK it says or should say.

2) Read the context of each verse. One verse taken alone can often be made to mean something very different or odd.

3) Look up the definition of the original language words. They are often more clear than the English words.

I assume the bible is often simpler than most humans make it.
This Generation is possibly THE generation that is going through the Great Tribulation. Too many major events worldwide need to happen for Jesus to simply mean those standing currently beside Him.

Context context context. Cults hate that idea.

But Jesus is also Trixie. Often He will speak a greater prophecy and truth than simply the question put to him. Yes, He is a God speaking to all eternity.

Rod wrote: "But Jesus is also Trixie. Often He will speak a greater prophecy and truth than simply the question put to him. Yes, He is a God speaking to all eternity. ..."

My response: True, but never in a way that will require a "special" person or "private interpretation" to understand it.

Matthew 13:10-11

10 And the disciples came, and said unto him, Why speakest thou unto them in parables?

11 He answered and said unto them, Because it is given unto you to know the mysteries of the kingdom of heaven, but to them it is not given.
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John 16:13 - "Howbeit when he, the Spirit of truth, is come, he will guide you into all truth..."

I made notes for future steps along this path. Thank you both for the enlightenment.

Carol wrote: "I made notes for future steps along this path. Thank you both for the enlightenment."

You are certainly welcome. Here are a few more quick thoughts...

* Don't fall into the post-modernist trap of believing that you CANNOT know truth. The Christianized version of this theory says... Yes, the Bible is absolute truth... but none of us can really KNOW it, because the best we can have is our OPINION of what is TRUE.

In my previous post I quoted Scripture in which God tells us that He WANTS us to KNOW truth and that He will help us to have truth.

I completely agree with Bob in that looking for special or esoteric knowledge is a sin. The gospel message is simple and for everyone - only Jesus saves.

Wade wrote: "I completely agree with Bob in that looking for special or esoteric knowledge is a sin. The gospel message is simple and for everyone - only Jesus saves."

Amen Wade!

Like the parables: some people will get closer to Christ through them... and others will be confused and pushed away. Just like Jesus said would happen.

Rod wrote: "Like the parables: some people will get closer to Christ through them... and others will be confused and pushed away. Just like Jesus said would happen."

Those who will be confused are those who do not know Jesus... because they CANNOT understand spiritual truth.

Most spiritual people actually think WE are confused. What tests do we set up?

Mormons and J.W.'s and Muslims have been coming to my door for years - to straighten me out with their truth. Catholics too.

Rod wrote: "Most spiritual people actually think WE are confused. What tests do we set up? Mormons and J.W.'s and Muslims have been coming to my door for years - to straighten me out with their truth. Catholi..."

Of course, everyone believes they are right. Otherwise they would not believe what they believe.

The Gospel is the power of God unto salvation; therefore, I always bring conversations back to the True Gospel of the Bible... thereby relying on God's power to salvation.

Here is one question to ask Jehovah's Witnesses. (Keep in mind when two of them come, one is most often a trainee. These questions can raise doubts in their minds, especially the new one.)

#1 - Ask them "How many gods are there?" (They will say one.)
Ask them to read John 1:1 from their NWT (New World Translation) Bible version. They will read this...

John 1:1 - "In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was a god "

Now ask - "Was Jesus a TRUE God or a FALSE God?" (They should say a true God.)

Now tell them... I cannot follow your religion! The Bible says there is ONLY ONE God... and you have TWO TRUE GODS!

They will try and tell you that Jehovah is the ALMIGHTY God and Jesus is just a MIGHTY God.

Don't let them off the hook... they have TWO Gods according to their own Bible translation. Insist that the Bible teaches there is only one God.

I recall they believe Jesus is just Michael the angel in a disguise. It's rather funny.

Rod wrote: "I recall they believe Jesus is just Michael the angel in a disguise. It's rather funny."

Yes, before He became Jesus... He was Michael
...after the resurrection... He became a greater version of Michael

(If I recall correctly.)

Would Jesus lie to Nazi's? Hell no. He'd laugh at. st them.

Should we lie? That's a good test of our faith. How much do we trust our God to protect us? Or use us Through any scenario?

Is lying any different than the other thousand sins we did that day? Probably not. Best not to sin though.

Jon wrote: "Since lying is a sin, what about what happens when you are trying to save someone’s life, your own, protect someone, etc. if I lie, would I, since it is a sin still be held accountable?

To give y..."

My response: I know an elderly woman who used to smuggle Bibles into Communist China and the Soviet Union. She has MANY testimonies of how God provided for her WITHOUT LYING !

If we give ourselves the OPTION to sin... we most assuredly will.

I'm not sure I agree with the position that lying is always a sin. There seem to be examples where deception appears to have been a good thing, i,e, the Egpytian midwives.

Also, there are some rather innocuous examples of deception which would be hard to categorize as sin. For example, is it wrong to fake to do a fake run or a fake pass in football? You're intentionally trying to deceive your opponent.

I would categorize deception for the purpose of saving someones life as a time when it is probably not a sin, but I admit figuring out where to draw the lines is tough.

Steven wrote: "I'm not sure I agree with the position that lying is always a sin. There seem to be examples where deception appears to have been a good thing, i,e, the Egpytian midwives.

Also, there are some ra..."

My response: Please quote Scripture where God TOLD the midwives to lie.

Please quote Scripture that states certain lies are not sin.

Personally, I believe that God is plenty big enough to lead us in ways that accomplish the need... without committing abomination.

What lack do you find in God that would make Him in capable of making a way greater than the limitations of human logic?

Proverbs 12:22 - "Lying lips are abomination to the Lord: but they that deal truly are his delight."

Good sports analogy. Fun to think about.

Jesus did tell the fascinating parable of the shrewd servant who changed the money balances (lied). Of course, that's not the point of the parable. But amusing.

Remember the book by Corrie ten Boom? She provides an account of the Nazis entering their home and asking a child where the Jews were hiding. The child told them the Jews were under the dining room table. The Nazis didn't realize there was a trap door under a carpet under the table. They left.
At dinner that night, the family discussed whether they should have lied. Corrie thought so. She said it was the closest thing to an argument that they ever had. That we could say the same thing.
The closest thing to an argument. For us, the discussion is theoretical. God's grace of wisdom for us when it someday is not.