Reading the Detectives discussion

Arising from our discussion in the Trent's Last Case spoiler thread, I've just been wondering what the earliest British novels were in the hard-boiled US tradition?

I know there were some in the 1940s and it could be argued that there are a lot of hard-boiled elements to novels by Graham Greene (one of my favourite authors) whose books inspired some great film noir - but was there anyone earlier? Also, does anyone have any favourite British novels in this style?

I've always enjoyed Gavin Lyall, but he's later and is more in the thriller/espionage genre than mysteries.

Good question, Judy!

I guess I like to avoid reality because I really love the British police procedure books where the inspectors etc. are ordinary human beings who aren't taking their own personalities out on everybody else. There are very few American detectives (men) who I really care for. That's why I read mostly UK mysteries. There's enough hard-boiled people, etc. in this world today that I don't have to read it in my books as well.

Carolien wrote: "I've always enjoyed Gavin Lyall, but he's later and is more in the thriller/espionage genre than mysteries.

Good question, Judy!"

Thanks, Carolien, he is a new name to me. One to explore.

It just struck me that, just as there are a few American authors who wrote the puzzle-type books in the Golden Age, there must have been a few British authors who wrote in a more downbeat style. I'll try to find out more.

Interesting, Betsy - I suppose I like a mixture. I do enjoy British police procedurals (and eccentric aristocratic amateurs) but I also like to read books with other settings and characters too, and I do love the hard-boiled prose style of a writer like Chandler.

I generally like real UK Police Officers from the golden age as well, but I like the later novels written by authors like Dick Francis, whose investigators are generally of the gifted amateur type. I love the racing background to his novels.

Like Betsy, I love the British police procedurals but they have a different tone from those hard boiled American books. Probably the closest I have come is the John Rebus series by Ian Rankin, In fact I have one on my shelf to read next.

Tooth and Nail: An Inspector Rebus Novel

I must admit that I too love the reassuring cosiness of British Golden Age detective stories - I have never been accused of a crime and so have no idea whether they are or were like that IRL.

But I also like Chandler, from a distantly marvelling perspective. Is Eric Ambler British and does he count as hard-boiled? I recently read Epitaph For a Spy which was brilliant and felt almost Sartre-like in its inscrutability.

And I forgot to say was written in 1939 I think. But what about Conrad and The Secret Agent? That is also pretty hard-boiled.

More recent, but I would call P. D. James’s books hard-boiled.

Annabel wrote: "Is Eric Ambler British and does he count as hard-boiled? I recently read Epitaph For a Spy which was brilliant and felt almost Sartre-like in its inscrutability. "

I've just found this page which suggests that Eric Ambler and Graham Greene were among the first authors to bring a hard-boiled sensibility to British novels:

http://www.crimeculture.com/Contents/...

According to this article, there were a lot of books by British authors in the pulp style in the 1940s, following on from No Orchids For Miss Blandish by James Hadley Chase, but most of them were set in the US - even though Chase (for instance) had never been there!

Abigail wrote: "More recent, but I would call P. D. James’s books hard-boiled."

I'm surprised to hear that, Abigail - I've always thought of her as very much in the English country house Golden Age tradition of Ngaio Marsh etc. But it is a long time since I've read any of her novels. Which ones do you think of as hard-boiled? I remember one of them is set around a nuclear power station, so maybe that one?

It has been wayyy too many years since I've read any of them, but my sense of them was that they were very gray and stark, and Adam Dalgliesh grim, nothing like the lighthearted aristocratic heroes I associate with the golden age. I believe I read the first four.

My idea of hard boiled would be the more modern series, such as Stuart MacBride, but I like the humour that a lot of UK series add alongside the violence.

I've just read an interesting blog review of a forgotten 1930s hard-boiled mystery set in Britain, by E. Baker Quinn (couldn't find this author on Goodreads). The hero is a former Scotland Yard detective called James Strange, who has done time in prison.

http://mysteryfile.com/blog/?p=1369

The first of three books, One Man's Muddle, was acclaimed at the time but is out of print. The review quotes some sharp one-liners and makes comparisons with Chandler and Marlowe - this was published the year before the first Chandler book, although other hardboiled writers including Dashiell Hammett were already successful.

Some of the commenters knew a bit about the writer and it seems her first name was Elynore, later changed to Eleanor, and she was American but had lived in London. Wonder if these books will be rediscovered by any of the publishers reprinting vintage crime?

There is a copy available on Amazon for about £20.

Thanks Susan - I'll keep an eye out and see if any cheaper copies turn up.

Has anyone come across Peter Drax? He is the latest classic crime author to be reprinted by Dean Street Press.

I've just been having a browse around their site and see they have republished 6 books by him - they sound as if they are more thrillers than mysteries and have hardboiled elements to them. I am tempted to try one soon. Drax (real name Eric Elrington Addis) died in World War Two, so his career was cut off early.

http://www.deanstreetpress.co.uk/auth...

As well as Ian Rankin, Val McDiarmid writes a number of different collections which I would certainly describe as hard-boiled. Peter May's Lewis Trilogy and his Enzo series and similarly real and I would recommend the. Cosy, golden age replicas - they are certainly not!

Oddly, I have never read either Val McDiarmid or Peter May. Not sure how that happened, but I need to remedy it. Any suggestions of which books/series to read first?

I remember reading a couple by Val McDermid years ago when Wire on the Blood, a TV series based on her books, was on - I think I quite enjoyed them.

Susan wrote: "Oddly, I have never read either Val McDiarmid or Peter May. Not sure how that happened, but I need to remedy it. Any suggestions of which books/series to read first?"

For Val - start with a stand alone book and then perhaps the Carol Jordan and Tony Hill series - although it really doesn't matter which series you start with as long as you read them in order.
For Peter May - try the Lewis Trilogy first.

Thanks for the suggestions.

I think I've mentioned on another thread that I read The Urgent Hangman by Peter Cheyney recently which was written in the 1940s and set in London but clearly very Chandler-influenced and thus the very epitome of a hard-boiled Brit. The hero, Slim Callaghan, slouched about in soft hat and overcoat and spoke a strange language that was half-Cockney and half-Americanisms.

When I get around to it, will be starting the third of the Lewis Trilogy. I like Peter May. Listened to the first two books and the third is on my shelf.

I think I have a couple of McDiarmid's. Also, currently watching her Wire in the Blood on Hulu.

I haven't tried the Lewis Trilogy yet but it looks interesting. I like Val McDiarmid but her output is a little uneven. The Jordan/Hill series is very good but can be a bit depressing....but I guess hard-boiled stories usually are depressing!