Harry Potter: Wizarding World Book Club discussion

To kick things off here is a brief outline of the book club.

From what I can gather, the Wizarding World format is one book a month starting in July, with weekly discussion topics/ themes. Themes for the first book are:

- Magic and the Muggle world
- First impressions
- Education
- Friendship
- Heroes and villains

I haven't personally read the book since they first came out when I was a wide eyed little nerd (although I have seen the movies many times naturally). I'm interested to explore how they stack up critically now that I'm a fully grown nerd, and delve deeper into interpretations/ lore/ conspiracies too.

Feel free to introduce yourself if you're interested, invite friends, and make suggestions about discussion themes. I don't know if this will catch on or not, we'll see!

It's been years since I last re-read the whole series. I'm now eleven years older than when I first got introduced to Harry Potter. Like you, I'm expecting to have a different or deeper view on certain things or themes than before.

Do you plan on discussing all the questions on each theme at once, or do it like twitter where they'll post one every couple of minutes?

Good morning, I'm excited someone started a goodreads group as I don't use Twitter (at any rate probably not the best forum for in-Depth discussion).

This week's topic is heroes and villains. Going back and reading through the books one of the things that stands out is that "perspective is reality." (Spoiler alert) Snape is painted a villain from the get-go and so that's how Harry and we view him. I'm noticing that there's a trend along these lines through the books of who is a true hero and who is a villain? Is there truly a black and white division between the two, or are there redeeming qualities to be found in villains, and is there sin in heroes?

Looking forward to discuss!

Good evening! I wasn't expecting a reply, but I'm glad it happened. I agree, Twitter is not the best platform to have a discussion, especially if you want to follow up on what has previously been said.

Warning! this is a long post

I’ll touch on the “perspective is reality” and heroes and villains separately.

The fictional world is presented to us through Harry’s eyes. Our perspective is largely influenced by the preferences and by what Harry feels in that moment. If I was Harry, I would have spent an entire chapter describing in really excruciating detail what the Hogwarts library looks like, maybe even going so far to explain what type of books I am currently reading and looking for. Harry, however, is not a booknerd. It is because of Harry’s admiration for Dumbledore that we see the old wizard as perfect (at least that’s how I perceived him when I was a child) – a mentor, a Gandalf-figure, somebody you could rely on. Now that I have grown up a bit my perspective has changed; that, and distance from the books and movies (because the movies do portray some characters differently.) Same goes with Severus Snape. On their first real interaction (the much-dreaded Potions lesson) Severus puts Harry on the spot, asking him things that a newcomer like him (I would place Harry on the same level as Muggleborns; Muggleborns grow up without any knowledge of their true nature or of the existence of a magic world, and are formally and officially introduced to it when they receive their Hogwarts letter) wouldn’t know, unless they are Hermione Granger. We feel Harry’s anger, but it’s not irrational, nor is he being overly sensitive. Snape is really being an ass in that moment.

I wonder what the magical world would look like from the PoV of a person who grew up in that environment. Imagine “Harry Potter” but from the perspective of Ron, Draco or Neville. Or Luna. I think hers would be a very fascinating perspective. I think she’s the type of character who would make the magical world even more magical.

The Oxford dictionary defines a hero in this way:
“A person who is admired for their courage, outstanding achievements, or noble qualities.”

And the Merriam-Webster dictionary doesn’t deviate from that either:
“A person admired for achievements and noble qualities”

What I find interesting is that the definition of the villain is much less centered on the personal qualities and actions, and more on their role. I mean, the Merrier-Webster dictionary gives out this as one of the definitions:

“A character in a story or play who opposes the hero”

On the other hand, the Oxford dictionary gives a definition that fits more what I think a villain is:
“A character whose evil actions or motives are important to the plot.”

In the first case, a character is considered a villain when they oppose the main character. If the main character is portrayed as a hero, but his actions are very un-heroic, it’s possible that the villain does not have villainous qualities. I think if we really want to find out if a character is heroic or a villain, we have to analyze and judge them by their individual actions, and keep the context in mind.

I think Harry does fit the hero category. He is not without his flaws, but he works on them (or around them) and at the end of the day he sacrifices himself for the greater Good. He is loyal to his friends, he treats the outcasts (Neville, Luna, Remus Lupin, Hagrid) with kindness; he never abuses them. He also has a strong sense of righteous fury (remember how angry he was when he found out that Sirius had “betrayed” his parents) and of justice. I don’t think he ever equates what is right by principle with what the law considers right; as such he is willing, sometimes even excited, to break the rules.

What about Snape then?

From my experience, there are two type people: those who love Severus Snape, and those who don’t like him. I belong to the second category. I don’t think it’s possible to not have strong opinions about him. He is never the main villain, but he is not a good guy. I think J.K. Rowling herself said in an interview that he is not a hero. But in this case we don’t need the author to answer this question, because the book should always be enough.

Snape did side with the right side, but why did he do that in the first place? Did he switch sides, because he realized he was in the wrong? No, he started working as Dumbledore’s spy, when he discovered that Voldemort was going after Harry, but he wasn’t worried for Harry, an innocent child, he was worried for Lily. He even admits that he doesn’t care what happens to her husband and her child as long as she survives. This is not a heroic quality.

Secondly, we should see how he treats the people around him. We know from the first book onwards that he does not treat his students equally. He doesn’t bother to hide his favoritism toward Slytherin. One could argue that the other professors always favor their own houses, too. That is true, but I can’t remember any instance in the books where any professor aside bullied his students. Snape did. We see it in the way he treats Hermione, in the way he treats Harry. I mean, Neville had Snape as his Boggart! He was terrified of Snape, a professor of a very important subject! “Well, Harry reminded Snape of James, the guy who bullied him.” True, but Harry also has Lily’s eyes and Snape is aware of that. Why didn’t he focus on his eyes then? But regardless, an adult, especially a teacher, should put aside his own prejudices and experiences and treat each student equally and as fair as possible. This, in my opinion, is not only a villainous quality (treating other people badly), but also a failure as a teacher.

Still, despite all his bad qualities, I don’t think Snape fits a 100% in the villain category either. You can be a bad person and still not be a villain, just as being a good person does not make you a hero.
Snape infiltrated Voldemort’s group and worked against him, trying to sabotage the missions whenever he could. At the end, he died for the cause. But even without that, Snape supported Draco when Voldemort commanded him to kill Dumbledore, and took the responsibility onto himself. He had no obligation to do so. He wasn’t close to the Malfoys. I don’t think he ever loved Malfoy. I think that was an admirable thing to do, and it was selfless.

As to whether there is a blank and white line between the true hero and the villain… I think there is, between Voldemort and Harry. There are no redeeming qualities in Voldemort. I think characters like Snape, Sirius and Draco and Peter are somewhere in between the two, and that’s part of what makes them so interesting to me.

Great points all around. I am limited in that I'm typing on an iPad so my discussion points are brief. I agree that we should judge characters by their actions, and I am really thinking about your comment of viewing WW through Harry's eyes vice a wizard ping world born. Very interesting.

I tried to post discussion in Philosophers' Stone but GR is not cooperating. I'm new to GR groups is there a trick to this? Perhaps I should try on laptop vice iPad.

Themes for discussion from book 1- not sure about anyone else, but I'm a bit behind. This week we are to start Chamber of Secrets but I'm about halfway through book one. I'm tackling Magic and the Muggle World and First Impressions in this post. I think JKR does an excellent job of juxtaposing the WW and the MW. It's clear that the Dursleys' are meant to be a foil to the WW, and moving over to the other topic of first impressions I think they are quite related. The first third of the book seems to set the stage as to why our hero is so bright-eyed about all things WW. it's clear to us in retrospect why HP felt he didn't belong at Privet, he was created for something more. It's funny the fascination the WW has with MW for example, AD begins the book snacking on Muggle candy, and RH can't count change and gets stuck in the turnstiles. It is humorous because we might expect magic folk to have these things figured out when in truth they live in a separate reality. I think it's interesting that having grow up in such an "ordinary" Muggle family, HP accepts what he sees in WW and doesn't question anything nor try to rationalize, but then again he is a first grader so it's not hard to believe. HP's fresh perspective to the WW provides many excellent opportunities for characters to offer expository (else how would we the readers understand Quiditch? Poor Hermione has to explain things to everyone!).

As far as first impressions go: i think HP's experiences in MW color his experience of WW. For example-I think he immediately recognizes Malfoy and co. For the bullies that they are. Initial impressions draw a parallel to Dudley. impressions that stand out are of course his meeting the "3 musketeers" the main heroes of the story. Ron and his family are rich in friendship and support though poor by material standards. HP seems to immediately recognize a kindred soul, whereas the initial first impression of Hermione is less favorable. It's worth noting the first impression of an often overlooked character: HW Castle. Though technically a setting it seems to have a life of its own and I'm counting it as a character! It's viewed from across the black lake, and the first entrance into the castle is straight into the great hall, of which we get a detailed description but not too detailed to halt the action.