King's Dark Tidings discussion
Who left Rezkin the Sheyalin swords?
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******ALSO SPOILERS********This also combines with the question of who slew the other inhabitants of the fort the 2 healer assistants and the cook and his two helpers. Also who added Rezkins name to the papers of authority many years after the papers were drafted. When added to the questions of who placed the swords in the armoury and the implication of Bordran training Rez to depose Cadean. And if master Peider "fortuitously" messed up rules 1 and 2 due to approaching death. Then King Bordran needed at least 1 co-conspirator within the fort to sign the papers, place the swords and give Rez his true purpose not as King Cadean's shadowknight. So this person must be either
**1 or more of the strikers ( but would not be able to give rez his final instructions not being his masters) and a very very low chance of success when facing off against 1 or both masters and the other strikers and a Rez under the contol of those masters
**or the old rez obeying his last instructions from King bordran and sneaking into the fort to give Rez the swords ( getting the timing right would be very improbable as well as the strikers problem with Rez's final instructions) a very BBIIIIGGGG stretch if you ask me.
**or Master Pieder who is possible if he intended to tell rez to kill WITH conscience and to honour and protect HIS KINGDOM, not his king or his friends but if he messed up rules 1 and 2 accidentally and he was not aware of Bordrans plan this leaves..
**Master Jaiardun as the man who killed the forts other inhabitants and gave the order to kill the strikers to keep Rez's identity a secret and protect the coming conspiracy to overthrow Cadean. Placed the swords in the armoury and added rez's name to the certificate of authority. Attacked Pieder to prevent him giving Rez the correct rules and oaths to King Cadean. If he had survived he may even have given Rez his parentage and explained his mission from Bordran.
Master Jaiardun is portrayed as a bullying, compassionless, hard and authoritarian instructor with Pieder as the compassionate polar opposite.
It adds a nice twist if Jaiardun was part of the freeing of Rez ( alittle Severus Snape comparison perhaps?)
The killing of everybody in the fort who may have been a potential hazard of the plan certainly fits his character as portrayed in only 2 chapters.
But this still leaves who was giving orders after Bordrans death and the possibility that Jaiardun was complicit with this person and manoeuvred the deaths to gain contol of rez for the order giver (or himself perhaps?) while Pieder was manoeuvring for Bordran with the swords and certificate.
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There has to be something else at work... or the rules were messed up and otherwise everyone intended Rez to be loyal to Caydean...
Dodger wrote: "******ALSO SPOILERS********This also combines with the question of who slew the other inhabitants of the fort the 2 healer assistants and the cook and his two helpers. Also who added Rezkins na..."
Oooohhhhh! Excellent follow up points. I always thought the masters had killed the healers and cooks, but you are right it could have been Bordran's posthumous accomplice.
When I first thought about this, I thought master Jaiardun was Bordrans co-conspirator. It just makes sense. I believe in that scene, it is even mentioned that Jaiardun was wearing a sword which was unusual for him.
I never gave much thought about it being a striker, especially considering what Farson said about how the rules were wrong. But after your post, I am thinking Adona (sp?) may be the co-conspirator. He did say "may he dwell in the darkness he unleashed" or something like that. Which taken in the context of being Bordrans accomplice has some layers of meaning.
Finally, I am landing on the idea that the co-conspirator was the old Rez. It also may help explain Aprils point about Peiders misrepresenting the first two rules. Given the preternatural abilities attributed to The Rez, it is conceivable a potion was given or using his will to impress those words. Just food for thought.
It has been bugging me for months as we wait for the third book
Rez may never know as the only witnesses that we know of and are still alive are himself (who doesn't know) Farson (who apparently didn't know about the swords or Bordran's plan) and the clandestine order giver (who Farson maybe aware of and is the HE Farson refers to in book 2, but HE may not be aware of Bordrans plans either) perhaps there are others Bordran entrusted this secret to and Rez will meet them upon returning to Ashai
To combine this with another thread where its postulated that Prince Thressan is the HE Farson refers to. Could Thressan be a master manipulator Machivellian playing the shy and weak prince to throw off suspicion from his brother.
Entrusted with knowledge of Rez and his training by Bordran, Thressan decided to manipulate Rez to his service not his brother or his fathers wishes and abruptly disappears when he fears his plan has failed and a Rez sworn to Caydean or Bordrans wishes is let loose and out to get him. (This is just off the top of the head thinking and thrown in here just for the fun of it)
Perceptions and misconceptions play such an important role in Kel Kades books. It drives the story through out the narrative with characters misconceptions of each other, themselves and their reasons and reactions to circumstances and I think there will be revelations and twists galore to the story and to individual character story arcs as KK plays with our own perceptions and misconceptions of the story and its characters in future books in the series. There are so many possible sides to incidents in the story so far, such as the river bandits are perceived as bad guys and the soilders as good guys when they could easily be rebels fighting the army of a tyrannical king and we happily cheer on the soilders from our own preconceptions. Or we could use General Marcum's view of Rez as soulless and evil when he is the (probable) son of Marcums best friend and heir to the throne. The whole Rez/shadowknight/raelgesh/true king mix and Rez's perception of right and wrong. This is a constant theme in the books whether its healers wanting to be warriors, battlemages wanting to be healers, foppish aristocrats becoming noble idealists and I could go on and on.
And it is for this reason that I like the idea of Master Jaiardun being Bordrans inside man and good guy after our perception of him is deliberately made out to be an evil bad guy it just seems to fit the motif of the story (or at least my perception of the story ;-) )
I can get on board with master jaiardun being Bordrans inside man. It would explain the swords, the masters killing one another and the deaths of the others at the fortress. It would beg the question though on who gave the order. Or if jaiardun was acting on Bordrans behalf why set it up then and in that way. Also, I am a bit curious as to whom and what are these masters. They aren't strikers and they may not even be ashain. If they are foreign it kinda boggles the mind that one may be in cahoots with Bordran.
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Guessing by the Masters ancient knowledge of the sen goka dual wielding martial arts of the Jahartan empire. I suspect they may be some remnant of the sen priesthood under some kind of compact formed with King Coroleus and his bloodline when he defeated the Jahartan emperor. (Also didn't Bordran have a son who reportedly die at birth?--sen priesthood of necromancy just saying...)Also excited by the news of September release date for book 3! Is there a title yet?
Yeah Dodger, I always got the impression the masters were an order from the kingdom of Jaharta. The history lesson Rezkin gives at the generals house leads to the Coroleus connection so it makes sense. And the Jahartan empire is mentioned too often to be just window dressing. Did Bordran have a son that died at birth? I must have missed that tidbit. Which book? Maybe when Wesson is doing the blood test with Rez and Tyrin?
Super excited about book 3b. Of course the audiobook won't be available until January 😥
Sorry my bad maybe I am misremembering the books or picked up the idea from another book or pehaps a thread from here or reddit maybe. The evidence of Rez being the son of Bordran or Dacius seem pretty conclusive and have been covered by many threads in this group and I think most of us agree with this. The characters assume that he is a bastard son but they could be wrong. Could Rez be a legitimate son of the king?
The first potential clue is the probable striker in the prologue who delivers baby Rez to the fort. He has faced great hardship and challenges to get the babe and to get him to the fort. A bastard sired ;-) by the king to a commoner or a lesser house would not be such a challenge whilst getting past the guards, the army, the strikers, the mages and the mage wards of the palace would be almost impossible even with help from the king (unless your Rez of course)
The striker also berates the master of the fort for calling baby Rez an it
"...a sliver of the warrior’s terror receded, replaced with indignation. “Regardless of your intentions, you would do well not to forget who he is. You will regret it otherwise.”
Would the striker be aware of the babe's bastardry if abducted from another house or commoner, would the king even bother to tell him? He is aware of Rez's royalty though.
During Kai's first interrogation by Rez accompanied by the soldiers, Jimson states
“I thought Queen Lecillia could no longer bear children after the last one,”Jimson remarked.
Of course this could be prince Thresson but would an honourable captain of the Ashain army like Jimson refer to his prince the second in line to the throne as the "last one" or could he be referring to a namless baby believed to have died at birth 19 years ago due to complications that left the queen unable to bear more children?
More possible clues all come from General Marcum, king Bordrans oldest friend and comrade. The general has a number of disquieting thoughts upon meeting Rez and learning more about him.
Despite the concealing spell and pehaps because Rez is trying to just be himself the general's 1st reaction to Rez is
"... It was not his impressive physique or height that caught the general’s attention but his eyes and face. That face was so much like …but it could not be. Or could it?."
Does the General know something about a royal baby believed to have died at or close to birth? Upon hearing of rez's age the general then reacts
"...Nineteen? It was much younger than he had guessed. A ridiculous thought crossed his mind, which he dismissed immediately. But maybe …"
Does he dismiss it because he thinks a baby died 19 years ago?
The next morning when the general leaves for work again has worries about Rez
"..Rezkin did not look like a dancer. He was a mystery the general could not solve. Every conclusion seemed to point in a different direction. The only confluence he could find was one he did not wish to consider."
At this point the only things he knows about Rez are his age, name appearance and the journey he took with Frisha and Tam, he doesn't yet know of the swords or anything else. Is he considering the possiblity of another son of the king, right age, right looks and right demeanour? Does he suspect that Rez could be a new The Rez
Just before the discussion between Marcum, Rez and Jimson the general thinks.
"..The other oddity was that Rezkin’s name lacked not only a family name and place of origin, but also a title of any sort. By kingdom law, he truly was just Rezkin. He was not lying about that. A sobering thought crossed the general’s mind.
So far the right age, right looks and now no family name just like the royal family could he really be..? Or Could the only other person that Marcum knows of with no family name is The old Rez
During the private meeting between Rez, the general and Jimson at the begining the general has two ideas when contemplating Rez's authority
".. I cannot imagine what Bordran was thinking.” But that was not exactly true. He had an idea. Actually, he had two, and he was not sure which was worse..."
Is 1 idea of Bordran giving a third son the authority to overthrow his brother and potentially spark a civil war and the other creating THE Rez and giving him the authority to terrorise the kingdom?
these two ideas are added to when the general thinks
"..“If you are neither commoner nor noble, then all that is left is royalty, and you are certainly not King Caydean or Prince Thresson,”General Marcum said, but in his mind the alternatives were sprouting thick roots.
Is he thinking Rez is a royal son, that Rez is The Rez, or that Rez is The Rez AND a royal son
Following Rez's brief description of his training and the battle with the his trainers the general's ideas become
"The general’s suspicions had already grown into a budding tree. He was nearly certain of Who and What Rezkin was. Of course, it should have been obvious from the beginning. Actually, it had been obvious, which is what raised the general’s suspicions in the first place. The name alone should have been a dead give away."
Is the general concluding that Rezkin is The rez and also that he is of royal blood Can a Rez only be created from someone of royal blood?
There you go the evidence is thin and the supposition weak but hey its only a theory its only a but of fun. :-)
There is, I think, enough evidence to prove that General Marcum knows of The old Rez, knows of Rezkin's birth and connection to Bordran and will be essential in Rezkin finding some answers to who he really is later in the story. He is the only character that we know of not from the fort who shows any knowledge of The Rez(s) as real and not just storys and myth. He is the only character who mentally connects Rezkin to the Rez. He was Bordran's best friend and confidant and will know top secret stuff of the Kingdom of Ashai
I believe that you're theory does indeed have great merit, but we cannot rule out the theory that Rez is possibly the son of the Old Rez(King Bordran's brother in my opinion). ".. I cannot imagine what Bordran was thinking.” But that was not exactly true. He had an idea. Actually, he had two, and he was not sure which was worse..."
First idea is that Rez is a hidden child of the King and Queen, a secret third prince capable of overthrowing and ruling Ashai.
Second idea is that Rez is the son of the Old Rez, and perhaps Marcum knows of the powers wielded by the Rez (Walking through wards, the battle energy, creating wards with only willpower, making people believe you are who you say you are, and alchemy) and fears those powers so greatly that the idea that Rez potentially has them is as bad as a secret third prince.
Another reason for the messengers difficulties could simply have been that he had to cross the entire country unnoticed while carrying a baby. This is likely a more difficult task than you think.
Also, it is possible that the mother was a Mage with a lot of influence and power, so maybe it was difficult to get the baby out of her household without arousing suspicion.
All the other quotes only indicate knowledge that Marcum knows that Rez is The Rez and that he is of royal blood. There is no firm indication that he needs to be Bordran's son.
After going back and re-reading the second book a bit more closely, I think you are absolutely correct Dodger...Rez is the "stillborn" son of Bordran and Lecillia. First I would look at your quote from Jimson about Lecillia couldn't have any more children after the last one in the context of Rez's conversation with Farson. Farson kept referring to Caydean and Rez's master. I think KK likes to misdirect us and make us think that Caydean and Rez's master are the same person, when in fact they are different people. Just like we are led to believe that there are only 2 children of Bordran and Lecillia.
Additionally, during the conversation with Rez, Tyrin and Wesson (after the determine the poison and Tyrin figures out Rez is the true king), Rez says to Tyrin (and I may get the quote wrong as I am doing this from memory), "You and I both know that Bordran only had two living sons." The obvious implication is that there was a son, that is not living.
When re-reading the prologue of book 1 with this frame of mind, it makes a bit more sense the rider's strong feelings towards Jaiardun's calling Rez an "it".
I think the third book will reveal that Rez is Bordran's 3rd son. It makes sense, especially when you consider how Marcum had 2 theories about Rez (as has been already stated).
Kurt wrote: "I believe that you're theory does indeed have great merit, but we cannot rule out the theory that Rez is possibly the son of the Old Rez(King Bordran's brother in my opinion). Whilst there is a possibility that Rez is the son of The old Rez. And a possibility that The old Rez is Bordren's brother it does raise some questions.
If the old Rez is loyal to Bordren, loyal to the code and the oaths why not just order old Rez to take his son to the fort. After all he knows where it is and might even see it as rightful for his son to carry on his mantle. This may sound a bit twisted to want your son to go through the hellish training that you went through but with things like Stockholm syndrome, cults, extremism and indoctrination it could be considered a right of passage or birthright by the old Rez. A validation of both his and his sons existence in a way. Bordren could even share his plan to have the son become king and needs the training to fulfil his role as King Rezkin, 1st of his name.
If the old Rez is not loyal to the king with regards to his son at least then 1 striker would not be enough perhaps there were more strikers who helped abduct young Rez who died on the mission. It would have been bloody carnage. And once old Rez was dispatched then no problem for the striker to deliver the baby. Who would be chasing? Why would the journey be arduous or perilous?
The old Rez would absolutely, positively have to be dead. Neither the king, the kingdom, the strikers or the masters in the fort would be safe if the old Rez is not dead and seriously pissed at his son being taken (after all old Rez has a certain set of skills.. he will find you.. and he will kill you!)
How does the abduction of the Son of Rez relate to Marcum's reaction to Rez's age. If Marcum knew or heard of a bloody massacre 19 years ago and knew it to involve the old Rez why would it concern him upon learning Rez's age? " 19 years old you say.. hmm there was that massacre 19 years ago involving the shadow knight.. I wonder? "
If he also knew of a son of old Rez being abducted or dying in the massacre. This to me seems to imply that Marcum knows alot more about the old Rez and young Rez than his reactions and suspicions show us. And why or how would Marcum even know if the old Rez did have a son?
If the old Rez was killed in a more sneaky underhanded manner why would Marcum react at all to Rez's age? Why make such a huge intuitive leap at all "oh.. the old shadow knight died randomly 19 years ago and this guy called Rez is also 19 years old... I wonder?"
Also as you pointed out the Marcum quotes seem to indicate Rez is of royal blood and The Rez. But why would Marcum know that the old Rez was the kings brother or of royal blood at all or that Rez is the son of the old Rez?
I'm getting seriously impatient for a September release if I was religious I'd be praying for an early publication and no delays. Even just the title of book 3 would ease my waiting!
Rezkin, after he kills the strikers, is in the armory equipping himself and as his eyes fall upon the blades he says that he has never seen those in the armory before. Which naturally suggests they were either hidden somewhere else or just put there recently. For me, I always thought it must have been the masters, but now I wonder.
**** SPOILER ALERT **** REFERENCING BOTH BOOKS
In book two, Farson says that the final rules Peider gave to Rezkin were not the correct rules. Of course we know this as Peider made the mistake. But this means that both the strikers and the masters were intending - based upon the rules they were supposed to give - to have Rezkin be the Rez for the king. Essentially, if Peider didn't get confused as he lay dying, he would have imparted to Rezkin that he must kill without conscience and protect and honor his king. Quite fortuitous...for Ashai and us.
Here is my confusion, it seems, based on the end of book 2, that Rezkin is intended by Bordran to be the person trained and with the authority to "overthrow a bad king". This is further supported by the opening lines of the prologue of book 1:
Good men want only the power to make things right
Great men seek to make things right and gather the power to do so
Great leaders find those who are worthy of wielding power and set them to the task to making things right - Coroleus
However, that is incongruous with rule 1 as intended "protect and honor your king". Especially in light of Caydean's poor kingship.
So, who was this someone that left the Sheyalins with Bordran's certificate of authority?