On the Southern Literary Trail discussion

Comments on this board are made with the assumption that readers have finished the book and may include spoilers.

Following....

I've been wanting to read this one for many years. I'll likely be starting it this weekend.

When you've finished you can find a quiz here.

https://www.goodreads.com/quizzes/by_...

Love, love, love John's quizzes! I may be rusty on the details. Maybe I can log in and take under my hubby's account, so no record on my account. Haha!

Laura, you made my day.

I'm reading another Franklin/ Fennelly story. The Tilted World

Levees, Ladies with rifles, and Lowdown moonshiners in the middle of lots of rain

I've been on fence over Tilted world...read or not to read. I'll look for your review.

I liked The Tilted World. Not Franklin 's best, and I could tell which parts he wrote, and which ones were written by Fennelly, but pretty good.
I'm not sure I remember enough details for a quiz, but I'll give it a try.

Isn't it time we see a new novel by Franklin? Where's he hiding?

Did not do well at all. Maybe I SHOULD re-read.

If you didn't do well...I'm toast!!!

Audio listeners...I've never bought an audio. I'm considering this book. Where do you recommend?

Quizzes. Diane and I are both at the 50% mark.

I reread Provinces of Night and I swear it was like a new book. Couldnt't remember a damn thing,

Growing old gracefully? BS! First yur typing skill go, then it's your mempry and I can't remember what failed me next. Oh Yea that too.

Too funny, John. My mother says she never needs a new book....she just rereads everything she's got because she can't remember them anyway.

OK, here's my review from 3 years ago, for what it's worth. Even if I don't remember the details, I do remember loving the book. Here is a review by Diane: https://www.goodreads.com/review/show...

Diane wrote: "Too funny, John. My mother says she never needs a new book....she just rereads everything she's got because she can't remember them anyway."

hahahaha!

Diane wrote: "OK, here's my review from 3 years ago, for what it's worth. Even if I don't remember the details, I do remember loving the book. Here is a review by Diane: https://www.goodreads.com/review/show......"

Sadly, I could not forget the details of those two kids...the old lady...the hooker in the cabin...Tooch and his ride...all that BLOOD!
Here's my thing...just updated and added a spoiler note.
https://www.goodreads.com/review/show...

I finished 2 nights ago and still only managed to get 27 answers out of 34 so I'm already forgetting the book. As a matter of fact I just started a book today and I think I read it already. But I just don't know. It's real familiar. That's pitiful. But thanks for the quiz John. :)
I'm putting my thoughts (review) together and then I'll have a look at what you all had to say.

I'm expectorating some good discussion here.
That was a funny section and the only comic relief in the entire book.

My thoughts are here:
https://www.goodreads.com/review/show...

When Floyd went to the group wanting justice and retribution due to McQuorcodale's (sp?) foreclosure, I thought of that scene in the Godfather when the mortician showed up wanting justice for his daughter. "Someday, and that day may never come, I will call upon you to do a service for me."

I have Tilted World on my list but maybe I'll wait for his next one.

Just finished Tilted World. Quite a bit softer around the edges. There is a love story that comes through. The characters have depth and vitality. Fennelley's, co-author and wife, voice shines through.

Levees, Ladies, Babies, and Booze.

I can see waiting to read another Franklin story. This is a pleasant read and not too course. I think you and Laura would like it.

Wow. My stomach stayed in knots reading this one. I knew it was going to be tough, with the opening about the puppies. I find it very hard to read anything about cruelty to animals.

My thoughts: https://www.goodreads.com/review/show...

Sara wrote: "I find it very hard to read anything about cruelty to animals. "

Me too Sara. I don't know what it says about me that I can read violence and brutality to humans but to animals (especially dogs) I have a very low tolerance threshold. The sheriff was on the same page when he exclaimed "They shot the dog? Why would they do that?"

I think there is something so helpless about animals and children, that they look to us without always understanding what is happening to them. The story about the dog that Billy and Oscar lure out to shoot was almost more than I could handle.

BTW, I scored 32 out of 34 on the quiz. Of course, I just finished the book. It would be interesting to see how much of it would stick with me 3 years later. I thought missing two was inexcusable having just closed back cover.

I suspected the granny woman was in on it when she gave the sheriff the cold shoulder early on, but couldn't figure out her angle. Even when she confessed everything, her logic still felt shaky.

My take away regarding the violence to dogs here was a healthy reminder that men/humans are animals- in this story, in a lot of ways lower than dogs. Sure, Tooch may have pissed out of his window, but he had a long way to go before being completely housebroken. It's not my intention to "slut shame" but I'm pretty sure dogs don't recognize their suitors by the blisters on their penises etc..

The sad part to me was watching the news yesterday out of Virginia, and realizing that after 118 years, in the hearts of some, not much has changed. Despite our best efforts to make education and resources available to stomp out ignorance- humans are altogether too quick to go to war to (selfishly) protect their turf/ideals... and all too eager to bare whatever teeth they might still have left.

pass the jug, I need a glug...

People protect their turf out of fear, plain and simple. They don't feel competent to embrace change, so are willing to kill to maintain the status quo. It's fear bred of ignorance, whether it's Alabama a hundred years ago, or Charlottesville yesterday.

John wrote: "When you've finished you can find a quiz here.

https://www.goodreads.com/quizzes/by_..."

I loved the quiz and only got one wrong but when I asked for the score it said I got 0 out of 34 right. I demand a recount!

I've finished Hell at the Breech but when I got to the end I found an unexpected bonus, a short story based on events related to him by Kathryn Tucker Windham. So far I'm really enjoying it but I don't recommend reading the first paragraph while eating.

Tom. I don't know how to fix that. Well hell, I looked and it says 33 of 34. maybe it just needed to cycle through. I don;t see the question you missed

every body has done well. So generous to participate. thank you

I finished yesterday, and I found Franklin's novel quite good (Thanks to Tom for nominating it) in that it reminded me of what all good and great Southern novels do so well: they show there is rarely a moral high ground or low ground in American society. Faulkner is the best at delivering moral conundrums, and O’Connor and McCullers are not far behind (this list could, of course, include many, many more).

Characters who seem quite noble at first disappoint and characters who seem the epitome of evil become contradictions as we see the reasons for their anger and their need for revenge come to the fore. Sometimes, I support their revenge and anger, sometimes I don’t, which is exactly, I believe, the position in which Franklin wants us. He wants us to experience the moral confusion and homicidal anger that his characters possess.

What the characters who join the gang have endured makes me sympathize with their situation as well as to understand their motivations and actions. A person can only take so much. I wish the situation could have turned out better, but when people are cornered and cheated (the repossession of land) for so long with no way out, the worst in them hatches.

I understood the gang mentality, but many of the others characters I found disappointing in their lack of compunction. I expected better from them.

One of the characters I found disappointing was Sheriff Billy Waite. Yes, he has a difficult job to do, and when he stops his cousin Oscar’s lynch mob, he seems a strong moral force to the novel for justice, even if that justice will become jaded and unfair. The judicial system at this time might have been quite corrupt, but when men make up the law as they go along, no justice will be attainable.

I admired Waite until he decided to become the judge, jury, and executioner of Tooch. I expected him to arrest the man, but he turns his posse into a firing squad. No doubt that Tooch is guilty, but Waite executes him. Only some kind of weird frontier justice.

Waite becomes a tragic figure. He is a good man who makes horrible mistakes. And when good men or women start losing their scruples, we are in trouble.

His cousin Oscar was disappointing as well (a judge organizing a lynch mob). I don’t know what to think of Granny yet; she seems to be guilty of making a deal with the devil, but that deal will never work out in any positive manner (her deal with Touch to make an indentured servant out of Macky to save his life).

I like Franklin’s idea that no man is above being a killer and that he can justify anything to himself that he wants to. Franklin’s vision might be true, but it is indeed dark.

The only characters that are excluded from this moral ambiguity are McCorquodale and Ardy Grant. They are the villains of the novel and they deserve what they get. I felt no pity for them. The other characters may be somewhat (big emphasis on "may be") forgiven for errors in judgment, but they cannot.

Did Ardy Kill Annie? Or actually let her go, that was unclear to me.

Really enjoyed reading your thoughts, Joey.
I think the strength of his writing is the very real ambivalence that exists in most of the characters. That old saying "walk a mile in someone's shoes" always applies in life. We never see the whole picture. It doesn't excuse what people do, but sometimes it helps explain it. There are some things that are unforgivable and most of these characters cross that line.

For Waite, this killing needs to stop, and Tooch is the source of the river of blood. I think that is what pushes him over the line. And then, in the midst of it all, there are the truly evil men like Ardy (who wants to become the very symbol of the law...how scary!)

Dustincecil wrote: "Did Ardy Kill Annie? Or actually let her go, that was unclear to me."

Ardy definitely kills Annie.

Thanks for those thoughts Joey.
I thought I was a civilized person until years ago when my dog was attacked by a much bigger dog while out walking. The worst scenario seemed inevitable when at the last minute his owner came out and called him off but then things got worse when he claimed our dog was responsible because his was only protecting his turf (on county property). We had a large vet bill and later went back and asked him if he would consider paying half and he went ballistic and threatened us. At the time my husband was wearing a back brace having recently undergone surgery and was in no condition to fight back, although he wanted to desperately. The only saving grace was two little boys, sadly standing there witnessing the argument. As we walked away, their dad fuming, one of them said We're so sorry our dog attacked your dog.
I'd like to think their father learned from his children that day.
I often dreamed of going back and getting even, imagining all sorts of scenarios. My inner Tooch/Ardy had been released and I wanted to cross that line. Had my dog been killed or husband injured, I wonder if I would have followed through. So much for thinking I stood the higher ground. Don't mess with my man or my dogs, lol!

Sara wrote: "Dustincecil wrote: "Did Ardy Kill Annie? Or actually let her go, that was unclear to me."

Ardy definitely kills Annie."

I wouldn't say definitely as the last sentence in their encounter is rather ambiguous., stating only that he pinned her to the wall with a rack of antlers. Is he saying that she was skewered by the antlers? If so, why didn't William and War Haskew find any blood in her cabin. More likely, the sentence was just saying that he used the antlers to trap her so that she couldn't escape.

That said, I believe without hesitation that he killed her. There was nothing in what we know of Ardy that even remotely suggests that he would be merciful, especially since he had money from Oscar to pay for her train fare out if town.

I need some help and would like your opinions. Received a note that calls into questions two items in the quiz I posted.

...Enjoyed your quiz. However, was it not the young Mackey (not Tooche) who was cured of asthma using the dog? Also, I don't recall Nathan Bedford Forrest mentioned as the founder of the KKK or the origin of the KKK name being mentioned in the book..

So was it Makey or Tooche? Been so long I can't remember.

And then should i remove the KKK questions? My thought are that I should.

It was definitely Mackey who had asthma. I don't recall reading about NBF (may he rot in Hell). I have fairly strong feelings about that particular individual and think that I would have remembered his mention had it been there.

You are correct Tom. The One May He Rot In Hell wasn't mentioned in the book. I included him in the quiz as a general history item . As a person who influenced events though not being there.

The question remains. Should he stay or go?

I have corrected the asthma question to reflect Mackey as the one cured.

Recently finished this book and enjoyed it very much. Franklin tells a real good story. During the past year or so I have experienced and enjoyed Franklin, Wm Gay (Twilight) and Larry Brown. I give most of the credit to "the Trail" for leading me to these writers. Thank you readers and moderators. Keep it up.

I'd leave it. It's a good question.

This was my first Franklin, I enjoyed his writing style immensely. I appreciated how he didn't deify the "good folks," nor vilify the "bad folks." You were able to see multiple facets of the main characters both the good and bad. I prefer that rather, it's far more realistic. r

Joey mentioned above, "I admired Waite until he decided to become the judge, jury, and executioner of Tooch. I expected him to arrest the man, but he turns his posse into a firing squad."

That is a perfect example. For the most part I thought Waite to be a good man, honorable. He was the voice of reason when things got out of hand, but then allows this.