ManBookering discussion

This is a discussion thread for History of Wolves by Emily Fridlund. Please be courteous of spoilers; if you are going to discuss them, give fair warning of page/chapter number or use the spoiler tag. Thanks! Happy discussing.

I read it a couple of weeks back & though it was really good, especially for a debut novel. I doubt, though, that it will make the shortlist. (On a side note: although a completely different story, History of Wolves somehow reminded me of Eileen, from last year's ManBooker, and I am curious whether any of you had the same feeling).

I have only just started this but I agree with you, Britta, it is giving me strong Eileen vibes so far. I will come back with a fuller review once I am done.

I can see the comparison with Eileen. Didn't like that, either!

Neil wrote: "I can see the comparison with Eileen. Didn't like that, either!"

I know! :-)

I'm just over halfway done and was coming here to comment the same thing—that I was getting major Eileen vibes! I'm liking this one a lot more than I liked Eileen though.

About a quarter of the way through myself am I'm also getting a bit of Eileen (and for some unknown reason, flashbacks to Girl on the Train!?).. very interested to see where this one goes...

Just finished this. WOW! Very impressive for a debut novel. I really enjoyed it. Still processing my thoughts but I will be eager to chat about this with people.

I have a few spoilery questions/thoughts which I will leave below:

(view spoiler)[ Do you think Lily and the teacher actually had an inappropriate relationship? I think the book leads us to believe that Lily made it up to hide the fact that she got pregnant by her boyfriend. And Madeleine is really upset by this accusation and wants to atone for her not speaking up for Paul by basically befriending the teacher in his later years and planning to give Lily that forged letter. Am I right in thinking this? How did other people interpret it?

Also why do you think Patra didn't say anything to defend her son against Leo? He obviously was controlling and didn't think that they should get medical help, and she tried a bit but never followed through. I felt like she was a pretty tough character at times with her obvious flaw being that she needed validation and sought that in Madeleine, which is a bit bizarre since she was a teenager. But when Madeleine didn't really provide any help to her in the end, did Patra just succumb to Leo's opinion and watch her son die? So tragic if so. (hide spoiler)]

I'm halfway done with it, and since I haven't read Eileen I can't really comment on that, although now I think I'll read it just to compare it!!

This was one of the books I wasn't planning on getting to, based on the reviews I found online (extremely misleading! btw) but after watching Insert Literary Pun Here's video I decided to give it a chance, and so far I haven't regretted it.

Maxwell wrote: "Just finished this. WOW! Very impressive for a debut novel. I really enjoyed it. Still processing my thoughts but I will be eager to chat about this with people.

I have a few spoilery questions/t..."

Maxwell wrote: "Just finished this. WOW! Very impressive for a debut novel. I really enjoyed it. Still processing my thoughts but I will be eager to chat about this with people.

I have a few spoilery questions/t..."

In answer to Max' questions:

(view spoiler)[I dont believe there was any inappropriate relationship between Lily and the teacher. But Mr. Grierson felt guilty anyway (and rightfully so), and therefore, he didnt deny it. Plus he felt that 'it could have been.'
And as for Patra: for me, she was 'tough' only as long as her husband wasn't around, and in the end, she chose her husband over the care for her child. Yes, she wanted Paul to be saved but she didnt want to make the decision to go against het husband's wishes openly. If Linda had saved Paul, it would have been ok, but Patra herself was too weak to do so.(view spoiler)[ (hide spoiler)] (hide spoiler)]

Britta- that is a really good point in your spoilery section. (view spoiler)[I agree, I think Patra was just waiting for Linda to make a move and help save Paul. But she was just a bit too naive to realize exactly what she should or could do. That being said, she was a young teenager, I don't think she was obligated to do anything. That's the parent's job. But she is also looking back on all of this as an adult who has gone through her own hardships and can empathize with the situation more than she could as an aloof and troubled teen. That complexity in her character is what I think makes the story so great. (hide spoiler)]

Just finished it and really liked it, but not entirely sure why as so much of the storyline is unresolved for me...it reminded me of lots of books, Eileen (crude loner), The Girls (cult influences), Room (child's perspective of a strange environment), Sense of an Ending (unreliable narrator) and Girl on a Train (the whole observer to a crime experience).... I'd certainly like to explore some possible theories with you guys when the discussion opens up...

David- I'd be interested to hear your theories! It's a book that I only just finished a few days ago but definitely keep thinking about. I agree that much is unresolved, but the more I've thought about it, the more I keep making connections and it's making me like it even more. Be sure to share whatever you're thinking, and if anything is spoilery just use the spoiler tag or give fair warning so others aren't spoiled :)

David. Interesting choice of comparisons. I have read them all and can see what you have picked out in each case.

One of my issues with this book is that I can see it could easily have been recommended as a bookchain's book of the month, or a reading group list (like Richard and Jusy in the UK) and I would then have enjoyed it as a Summer holiday read. However I am surprised to see it conflicted for a prestigious literary award and felt it fell short against that criteria.

Interestingly I came across each of Room, The Girls and Girl on a Train by the book recommendation route and read them as holiday reads.

Interested to discuss your theories.

I am now on page 204, and much like Gumble, I am not quite sure whether this is Booker material - it feels like a YA novel to me (which is of course not necessarily bad, but for a Booker?). In my opinion, the foreshadowings and hints are at times a little clumsy or too obviously placed (view spoiler)[ (e. g. when Paul says „I don’t matter“ instead of „I’m not matter“) (hide spoiler)], and the question of shifting power in group contexts that is established when Linda gives her presentation on wolves is not played out consistently. I’m generally really interested in hearing your opinions on how Fridlund works with the image/idea of the wolf in her text (Linda’s presentation, the stuffed wolf, the dogs as domesticated wolves etc.)!

I agree with you, Maxwell, that the strong point of the novel is how the character of the protagonist is depicted, as Linda finds herself in a situation that she as a 15-year-old is unable to handle. Nevertheless, I think the text would be better if there was a change of pace or mood at some point. You might look at the book as a kind of Bildungsroman, but one without much character development except from feelings of regret as described by Maxwell and Britta in their discussion above. (view spoiler)[ This lack of development or concept of being stuck is even pointed out by the mechanic that Linda dates after moving to Minneapolis. (hide spoiler)] But I might change my mind on that last remark, as I have some pages left to read! :-)

Just finished this one. I ended up really liking it. I agree with the majority in that it will likely not make the shortlist, but I'm glad to have read it.

Theory-wise, the role of dogs/wolves in the novel had me really intrigued. It seemed that the dogs appeared to be the measure of mainstream rational behaviour, as all of their instinctive behaviours seemed bang on at all stages through the book. The concept that Linda might be a lone wolf, and hence also one of the rational ones was interesting. All around, everyone else is either an ex-cult member, a "religion before medicine" type family, a paedophile, or something else with a less usual situation …..except the dogs and Linda (view spoiler)[ except at the end, Linda writes that letter to Lily that seems so out of character to that of the reliable dogs that to me, it shows that even she isn’t really one of them (hide spoiler)]

By coincidence, I came across the following article, and I related when Fridlund shared that she has a real love for including dogs in her work. http://www.powells.com/post/interview...

I also found it interesting that this novel was originally a short story and that it has been lengthened afterwards…..I’d love to read just the original short story version.

Just finished this. I thought it was good but I felt it was soulless. I couldn't really engage with the characters and I did have to force myself to continue with the novel. Anyway here's my review:

For starters, I did not dislike this book. I liked the writing style, I thought the characters were well developed. Even the plot is pretty good: A woman recounts an episode that happened during her teenage years, which changed her outlook on life and is trying to atone for, even though there were other factors in this event.

History of Wolves also tackles religion and ethics, and when the two blur. I also thought this was done well.

My problem with the book is that it felt soulless. I didn't care for the characters and at no point was I gripped by the story. I appreciated it but I continued because I like to read Booker longlisted books in a more thorough way. In a way there are elements of Ottessa Moshfegh's Eileen, elements of Emma Cline's The Girls and dollops of Lorrie Moore's A Gate Under the Stairs but I felt that History of Wolves lacks the spark which made the above books so compulsively readable. For The Booker, this one did feel a bit ordinary.

Robert wrote: "Just finished this. I thought it was good but I felt it was soulless. I couldn't really engage with the characters and I did have to force myself to continue with the novel. Anyway here's my review..."

I read the book as the narrator being emotionally stunted in a way. And I enjoyed not knowing exactly why she came to be that way until later on in the book, though I imagine that could also be a turn off to certain readers. I also thought the ethical discussion was the most interesting aspect of the story. Glad you enjoyed it at least! Even though I loved it, I would be surprised to see it on the shortlist.

Maxwell wrote: "Robert wrote: "Just finished this. I thought it was good but I felt it was soulless. I couldn't really engage with the characters and I did have to force myself to continue with the novel. Anyway h..."

True I didn't see it like that and the clues were there. Yeah she pulled off the ethical debate well.

So far I haven't read an outright dud in the longlist - 5 books in and all are good to excellent reads.

Robert wrote: "Maxwell wrote: "Robert wrote: "Just finished this. I thought it was good but I felt it was soulless. I couldn't really engage with the characters and I did have to force myself to continue with the..."

Agreed. Even with the ones I've liked least (Swing Time, Lincoln in the Bardo), I've been able to see why they were listed. Just not my cup of tea. But been overall really impressed with the other ones I've read so far!

I really liked this one. I thought there were a lot of parts that could have been explored in more depth but I loved the darkness and the complexity of character.

I've read about half the list now and this was the first one that didn't really grab me. It was an enjoyable enough read, but ultimately didn't leave an impression. Compared to the other listed books I've read, this one doesn't hold up.

I have a copy of Eileen I will have to read now to compare. I did enjoy the tone of the novel a lot!

As mentioned in the general thread, here is a brief comment from the podcast interview with Lila Azam Zanganeh (LAZ) and Colin Thubron (CT) on the longlist selections.

History of Wolves
LAZ: Yes, it is a book about many things. It would be difficult to summarize. It’s a book about the absence of parenting, but mostly, what I think is extraordinary about this book and one of the reasons we have chosen it is that it really creates a tonality and a texture of its own, a world of its own, something completely unique. It has a unique quality, color and feel to it, which is, I think, really the mark of a real writer. So you enter into this world, that’s both of today and other worldly, a world of the forest and the animals, and a world of fear and anxiety. It’s a beautifully written book. It’s a very, very original book.

I finished this last night and gave it 3 stars. I liked the writing and what should have been, in my opinion, the main topic of the novel, i. e. Lindas experience with the neighbours and their son. When it became clear what was the matter with them, I found it really intriguing and I wished Fridlund had concentrated on that plot point. However, it wasn't explored enough in my opinion, which was a disappointment, since it promised so much room for discussion.

I finished this one on Friday morning and I gave it a 3 out of 5 stars. I thought the writing was beautiful but the overall story seemed disjointed to me. I loved the parts about Paul and Linda and wish that that story line would have been fleshed out a little more because I think that would have taken this from a 3 star read to a 5 star read.

David wrote: "Theory-wise, the role of dogs/wolves in the novel had me really intrigued. It seemed that the dogs appeared to be the measure of mainstream rational behaviour, as all of their instinctive behaviour..." Thanks for sharing. Makes more sense to me now. And your comparison to the other books made perfect sense. Read then all and I ccan see the similarity.

Just finished the book and had mixed feelings. Overall I think the story about Paul and Gardners' was very compelling, nicely complimented in the context of Linda's distinct upbringing. But Lilly's story felt like an unnecessary distraction. Also the detailed descriptions sometimes felt overkill and out of place. Here is my review.
https://www.goodreads.com/review/show...

I just came to your group yesterday and to the idea of reading the Manbookers. (I mostly read classics). Having said that, I read this one today and liked it a lot. And I enjoyed reading this thread because it made me think more about some of what I may have missed.