World, Writing, Wealth discussion

Our eighth group read of 2017 is urban fantasy thriller.

Please join us in reading Graeme Rodaughan's A Subtle Agency

High-octane, action-packed, urban fantasy thriller.

Hunting Anton Slayne?

Just get in line behind the Boston Police Department, Chinese Triads, the Shadowstone Organization, the Red Empire and the Vampire Dominion.

Witness to a brutal murder, Anton is inducted into the Order of Thoth by the mysterious Mr. Wu. He soon discovers that vicious local gangsters, determined Boston Police Detectives, and relentless Shadowstone operatives pale into insignificance as he is drawn into the machinations of the enigmatic vampire, General Chloe Armitage.

When mastery over Anton’s soul is at stake, survival is the least of his problems.

Reading Schedule
Starting on 9 August we can discuss the specified chapters without having to use spoiler tags. Conversely, you must use spoiler tags for any discussion about future chapters.

8 August = First impressions; please hide any spoilers.
9 August = Beginning - Chapter 3
16 August = The entire book

Note:
* These dates are based on the NZ time zone.
* I've reserved approximately the last two weeks of the month to a complete discussion of the book. I believe that doing so promotes more discussion. However, we should be flexible with the dates as best fits the participants.

I've read A Subtle Agency and own a copy. I'll join in on this discussion.

Would anyone like to volunteer to be the discussion leader?

Hi all, to support this read I will drop my prices to promotional prices from now to the 12th August. It will take Amazon a few hours to update.

$0.99 USD.

Looking forward to supporting the read

If you would like a format other than Kindle, I can support ePUB and PDF. Just PM me with your email address and I will provide a copy.

If you purchased my book before the 7th July 2017 - PM me with your email address and I will send you the latest .mobi file for Kindle.

Cheers Graeme

I have bought my copy. As an aside, Alex, why pick on the NZ time zone? Was that a hint?

Not at all. since Graeme is in Melbourne and NZ is the first major time zone on the same side of the international dateline and only 2 hours ahead of AEST, I thought the NZ time zone to be the most convenient.

Thanks Ian, hope you enjoy the read.

Graeme wrote: "Thanks Ian, hope you enjoy the read."

So do I :-) However, you will get some comments from me.

Looking forward to your feedback.

I picked this up a little while back, so I'm looking forward to reading it :-)

I've been reading this. Looking forward to discussing it.

Leonie wrote: "I picked this up a little while back, so I'm looking forward to reading it :-)"

Hi Leonie, there is an offer above re latest Kindle file.

If you purchased my book before the 7th July 2017 - PM me with your email address and I will send you the latest .mobi file for Kindle.

Hi Leonie, William,

Glad to have you on board for this.

I'll be the discussion lead for this month's group read, so let's get the show on the road.

What do you think of the title? What was your first impression? There are several meanings for "agency" as a noun, one of them more abstract, which for some reason, I always thought of. Or maybe it's a double entendre?

Thoughts on the cover? From the blurb, I would expect vampires to be front and center. So, where are the vampires? And there aren't even any people on the cover. ^_^

Remember that we need to use spoiler tags until after 8 August, so keep clear text general. ^_^

Re Alex' questions: The title puzzled me, but not so much, agency. I assumed that was a collection of agents, undertaking a task that would be shown in the book. What did you think, Alex? My problem was, what does "metaframe" mean? Did anyone else have this question?

Alex' observation, "there aren't any people on the cover" has suddenly got me nervous. I have purchased a cover for my current WiP, and it has no people on it, although in my view you should get some idea of what is in the book. However, that is beside the point. My main thought on Graeme's cover was, what sort of book is this? (I saw the cover before the blurb.) All I saw was a storm, a tall building, and some red 2/3 up the building, which I interpreted it as menacing. However, I would have glossed over it, had I not known about Graeme. (Hey, word of mouth - or pen - worked here 😊)

I am going to add another general discussion question: naming ancient characters. (I don't think discussing p2 is a general spoiler.) Here we have Akhaton, and this at the very least raised my eyebrows, although I acknowledge it probably wouldn't bother anyone else. First, some ancient Egyptian. Akh generally means great, excellent, superior, or something like that. That's fine. Second, the name of a ruler would be a hieroglyph on a cartouche, and hieroglyphs don't have everything in them, and in particular, terms like "in", "of", etc have to be assumed, and of course, our spelling is our translation based on the sounds of similar words from Coptic. So, there are several spellings for the same name, and Akhaton is also used for what others call Akhenaten. So, two people can have the same name. Of course they can. There were two major Gaius Julius Caesars, and who knows how many lesser ones.

However, my problem is with the Aten or Aton. That did not, as far as I know, turn up until the 18th dynasty, and may well have been invented by Akhenaten, who changed his name from Amenhotep, when he introduced the Aten, and by so doing, in my view, and in a the view of many others, such as Freud, created monotheism. By picking that name, it is a bit like picking Jesus Christ as the name of a Jew around the time of Moses. As an aside, a follower of the Aten would be more likely to tear down a temple to Thoth than to go into it.

I am probably being unnecessarily picky in most people's eyes, but the question remains - when you don't know the meaning of a name, should you try to avoid something too prominent? Any views?

Ian wrote: "I am going to add another general discussion question: naming ancient characters. (I don't think discussing p2 is a general spoiler.) Here we have Akhaton, and this at the very least raised my eyeb..."

I'm continually impressed by your wealth of knowledge Ian :) When I read this book, having no knowledge of Egyptian naming convention, I wasn't bothered by the names. I did however feel that the background info dump delayed the start of the story unnecessarily.

I admit that I doubt many would pick the naming issue. We could also discuss the issue you raise, Eldon, but probably wait a little until more people get further into the story. (That includes me 😊 )- So far I am still unsure where this story is going, although vampires are reasonably clear. Maybe it it still that word "metaframe" that is bugging me, but the good news from Graeme's point of view is that I am feeling the story is being propelled forward.

Yes, only a few would pick up on the naming issue. In the end, I think it depends on how knowledgable you think your readers are. Then again, maybe you shouldn't underestimate them. ^_^

As far as the prologue goes, I thought it quite exciting. Sometimes, if an infodump is done well and it's in genre, then it will work to engage the reader of that genre. but come to think of it, I don't really see this as an infodump because it's not narrative summary--it's an engaging series of very fast-paced, emotion-laden scenes.

I don't see many prologues in UF. What about in thrillers?

So, now we know(view spoiler)[ where vampires come from, the origin of "Thoth", (hide spoiler)], but there are still a lot of hints.

I have refused to view Alex' spoiler, so what I am about to write may be embarrassing to me in the future, but I saw the prologue as containing quite a bit of what should be necessary information for what follows. The complex underneath the Temple of Thoth does imply a number of things - the question for me is, will these be significant? I must wait and see.

I will leave it to Alex to invite me in.

Do you think I'm going to fall for that old trick, Mr. Crane? My maternal grandfather's family name isn't Van Helsing without good reason.

(just kidding. ^_^)

Enter, good Sir.

Interesting point, Alex - how can there be a reason for grandparent's name? (I know you were kidding, but it is an interesting question????)

I did some research on ancient Egypt prior to writing those scenes. I don't remember explicitly picking Ahknaton for a name based on the famous figure from the 18th Dynasty.

My initial working name was 'Imhotep' from 'the mummy.' Ahknaton probably got picked subconsciously.

Hakron & Mekra are both pure made up names.

In any event, I placed the events of the prologue more than a 1000 years prior to the 18th dynasty, and posited techniques and knowledge well in advance of the historical record.

The Metaframe is an interface into the underlying physical laws and reality framework of the universe.

A framework of frameworks - hence Metaframe.

Ha - so that's what metaframe is -intriguing. I shall have to keep reading :-)

Alex wrote: "I'll be the discussion lead for this month's group read, so let's get the show on the road.

What do you think of the title? What was your first impression? There are several meanings for "agency" ..."

From the title of the series, I thought that was some futuristic computer on the cover (didn't really look all that close). One of the nitpicks I had that wasn't really a fault because this came across as an alternate-reality version of our world is that the vampires' tower from the description would be about as tall as the original twin towers of the WTC which stood at 110 floors. The current 1WTC has 104 floors and the Empire State Building 102. At 108 floors, the home base of the Vampire Dominion would stand out and draw a lot of attention.

J.J. wrote: "Alex wrote: "I'll be the discussion lead for this month's group read, so let's get the show on the road.

What do you think of the title? What was your first impression? There are several meanings ..."

Interesting point J.J.

Graeme wrote: "I did some research on ancient Egypt prior to writing those scenes. I don't remember explicitly picking Ahknaton for a name based on the famous figure from the 18th Dynasty.

My initial working nam..."
I think they recently confirmed he was Tutankhamen's daddy. And he was married to the beautiful Nefertiti.

And Nefertiti apparently was not Tutankhamun's mummy 😊

J.J. wrote: "this came across as an alternate-reality version of our world is that the vampires' tower from the description would be about as tall as the original twin towers of the WTC which stood at 110 floors. The current 1WTC has 104 floors and the Empire State Building 102. At 108 floors, the home base of the Vampire Dominion would stand out and draw a lot of attention...."

Late in the 1st chapter I provide the actual address of Crane's citadel which is on a famous NYC landmark building.

I do that sometimes. Just pick a well known site and change it's purpose (cough... cough... Rikers Island, cough...) . It makes it easy to understand what a character may see if looking through a window (e.g. central park) or how long it might take them to get to another key location like an airport, military base, Grand Central station, etc.

And with thrillers, timing matters.

Since the 108 floors has already been mentioned, I would add one more thing I did not like - rail guns to shoot down unauthorised helicopters. Since presumably nobody else knows about this, why are there not shootings down of police helicopters, or something? Surely that would raise problems and at least show the vampires upt to the world?

WRT Citadel defenses. (view spoiler)[There is a civil pad on top of the building and a secret hanger underneath the civil pad. The defenses can be deployed in two ways.

[1] When the secret hanger doors open, the defenses become active. Or,

[2] Their is an active threat alert and the defenses emerge above the hanger.

Normally, the threat level is low enough that the buildings defenses are not on show.

If there is ever a full scale incident, it would be time for Crane to move to a new Citadel elsewhere.

The weapon systems remind me of a CWIS with a longer barrel. The domes are on rams that push up when the weapon systems are deployed. (hide spoiler)]

Hi Ian,

You raise a key challenge for the Dominion - i.e. secrecy, it gets discussed quite a bit during the book.

(i think we're edging into spoiler territory. ^_^ i wonder how effective using spoiler tags is or maybe people just glance at the post and then try to ignore it if it starts to get spoilery?)

Since the cat has been let out of the bag about secret organizations (but I suppose that reveal comes quickly enough very near the beginning of Chapter 1), what do you all think the advantages and disadvantages of secret vs out-in-the-open supernatural creatures are? (besides the sometimes troublesome problem of explaining and keeping them secret ^_^)

Alex raises a good discussion point, but I think we should wait a little on that one because the temptation to spoil might get overpowering.

An extensive glossary of terms and characters is available on my blog at https://www.goodreads.com/author_blog...

It includes references to characters that appear at the end of A Subtle Agency and in the immediate sequels.

But IMHO, do not constitute spoilers. Some readers may well find the glossary highly useful.

Have just begun reading this, so a couple of comments.

I didn't actually look much at the cover. Now that I have it's clear that it has to be the vampires' tower. As someone from Australia, the lack of vampires on the cover doesn't disturb me at all. From what I've read, there are clear regional preferences for cover styles.

http://www.publishingcrawl.com/2012/0... and here's another one.

http://www.intergalacticmedicineshow....

First thoughts - I reckon Graeme's dropping a few Easter Eggs along the way, even in the first few chapters. Clearly he's setting up for a story full of twists and turns. (Or that's my impression, anyway!) I wasn't quite sure about the start, but it makes more sense a few chapters in, and like others I have no preconceptions about Egyptian naming, so there's no issue for me there.

The style reminds me so far of Matthew Reilly, but without all the exclamation marks and italics. (Thank you Graeme!) I'm quite looking forward to seeing how the action sequences ramp up.

So far I have a fair few questions, but I shall bide my time and see what comes of them.

Hi Leonie, I like Matthew Reilly's excellent free wheeling action style, but I like to position my work as providing more character depth.

Graeme wrote: "Hi Leonie, I like Matthew Reilly's excellent free wheeling action style, but I like to position my work as providing more character depth."

I can actually see that already. I generally read Matthew Reilly for a fun ride, but I always feel like I'm in a Batman comic. (Pow! Boom! Smash!) Hence my comment about the lack of exclamation marks and and italics :-) Enjoying it so far.

Leonie wrote: "Have just begun reading this, so a couple of comments.

I didn't actually look much at the cover. Now that I have it's clear that it has to be the vampires' tower. As someone from Australia, the la..."

Amazing stuff on covers there Leonie. Suggests to me that ASA has a more "English" symbolic cover than an American cover.

Graeme wrote: "Leonie wrote: "Have just begun reading this, so a couple of comments.

I didn't actually look much at the cover. Now that I have it's clear that it has to be the vampires' tower. As someone from Au..."

That was exactly my thought, Graeme.

I had no idea about covers and regional differences until I saw the Janny Wurts differences that you can see in the second article. I much prefer the UK cover, and am really glad that I have those rather than the US ones.

The differences are huge. Amazon can support it by having different editions with different covers, ASINs and ISBNs for the paperbacks....

Without a conscious goal to do so, it turns out, I've written three strong female characters in ASA. Chloe Armitage, Li Wu and Louise Wesson. I'm curious as to how they come across to everyone on this thread.

Graeme wrote: "Without a conscious goal to do so, it turns out, I've written three strong female characters in ASA. Chloe Armitage, Li Wu and Louise Wesson. I'm curious as to how they come across to everyone on t..."

Graeme, remind us of this question when we are in the washup period. There would be too many spoilers now.

Good point Ian.

I'm wondering if everyone is finished with chapter 3 b/c then we could discuss the content of the book up to and including Chapter 3 without having to use spoiler tags.

Also, remember, we can still discuss spoilery content, but we just have to use spoiler tags. ^_^

Graeme wrote: Amazing stuff on covers there Leonie. Suggests to me that ASA has a more "English" symbolic cover than an American cover. "

i'd agree with that.

but if the target market is an American one, then it should be an American-style cover, no? But it's been a global market for a number of years with an American focus, correct? Do UK, Australian, New Zealanders, Canadians go to the US Amazon site or the local geo amazon sites? Depending on the answer for an authors' book, investing in a different cover for a locale that has substantial traffic could be an investment that could net a substantial ROI.

for example, if a reader is on the US Amazon site, and they see a UF or thriller cover that does not exude UF or thriller, respectively, but there are others that do, won't that reader skip that cover?

Hi Alex, that's the unfortunate logic.

I may need to recover the series for the american market.