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Because I have been a sportswriter, the one aspect of this book that I found fascinating was how Roger Kahn described working the beat covering the Brooklyn Dodgers, his interaction with his editors and how he competed against other writers. The New York press was (and still is) the most competitive in the United States, if not the world. When Dick Young tells Kahn scornfully, "I'll kill ya, kid," he is talking in the journalistic sense. And rarely was Dick Young ever beaten on a story. And I enjoyed the sense of how writers would gravitate toward a player. Kahn favored Jackie Robinson, while Young preferred Roy Campanella.Of course, there are many other great parts to the book, but from working inside the business I always enjoyed that. The best compliment I ever got as a sportswriter came, inadvertantly, from Campanella. I was interviewing him at Dodgertown during spring training, 1981. We we in the grass field between the clubhouse and Holman Stadium, and we were discussing the Dodger catchers and how he was helping them. As we talked, a woman kept pestering him for his autograph (despite his paralysis, Campanella figured out a way to sign his name). Finally, he looked at her and said, "excuse me, but I am talking with this baseball writer. I will sign for you when I am done."
Baseball writer. I was floating on air the rest of the day.
Bob
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Bob wrote: "Because I have been a sportswriter, the one aspect of this book that I found fascinating was how Roger Kahn described working the beat covering the Brooklyn Dodgers, his interaction with his editor..." Great story Bob. That is amazing!
Bob wrote: "Because I have been a sportswriter, the one aspect of this book that I found fascinating was how Roger Kahn described working the beat covering the Brooklyn Dodgers, his interaction with his editor..."
Nice story Bob, thanks for including it. Must have been nice interviewing immortals like Campy.
Nice story Bob, thanks for including it. Must have been nice interviewing immortals like Campy.
I decided to post a review that Mike Reuther wrote two years ago, and then my response to him about The Boys of Summer because Mike's review was so good.Mike: "Kahn had a way of mythologizing these ballplayers while at the same time showing us how very human they were. When I first read this book in the ninth grade I struggled to get through its long first section. The bios are interesting, but far too brief. I wanted to find out more about the men who played on one of the great baseball teams of the 20th Century, but Kahn doesn't probe too deep. He makes use of a rather lofty writing style to portray these men as old warriors who've gone home to rest from war, where the battles are a bit tougher than any game with the New York Giants. There's plenty of pathos here - Billy Cox working as a bartender in Newport, Pa. and the great Jackie Robinson coping with the loss of a son. It always struck me that Duke Snider, in the midst of his fame and glory, longed to be back in California raising avocados. Duke was a terrific athlete, one of those golden boys, who definitely seemed to have his share of insecurities. All these ballplayers seemed to be struggling with something. By the time Kahn catches up with them in the 1970s - long after their playing careers - they're in the full flower of middle age, facing the same problems most of the rest of us have. And in some cases, the burdens are pretty heavy. I've never really been quite sure how the two sections of the book fit together - Kahn's boyhood and coming-of-age as a young reporter covering the team, and his interviews with the ballplayers years later. Maybe he was trying to show the innocence of youth and a kid's game surrendering, as it must, to age and maturity and the realities of life. At any rate, it's a good read. I would recommend the book to anyone - baseball fan or or not. (less)
Harold: Great job Mike,That is a wonderful review.I am amazed you can remember so much. I think he needed his personal journey with the Dodgers as a kid when they were da bums to demonstrate the depth of loyalty the fans had for the team.The working class needed an outlet for their frustrations and latched on to these warrior heroes. These were the soldiers of Brooklyn who took on the Bronx enemy and the Giants. These men were the pride of a life-style who brought hope to millions. Those idols were then brought back to earth by the same ailments, hardships, and child worries that most middle aged men suffer from. But I like your phrase of the "old warriors who have gone home from war to rest."
What struck me is that they never really kept in touch.I always thought they were as close as blood; yet it appears they weren't even that close during their playing days. Maybe that's why the Yankees kept beating them.
Another thing I missed was a chapter about Newcombe and Branca. Why not? When he wrote the epilogue in the 90's they were still living.(Still are today) (less)
And here is my original review since I won't be reading it again.
Ok, so I finally decided to read "Boys Of Summer" and I'm melancholy. I have just gone through an emotional ride with the epilogue. This is a wonderful book. I was hesitant the first 80 pages to understand why the book was heralded as great and then I understood. The inside look at the life of great sports reporters,the insider voices of Durocher the antagonist and Robinson's responses, the feeling amongst the team when they began to win, the insecurity of the Duke even at his prime,the humorous stories that were told, the feeling of alienation by Furillo, the courage of Reese and Robinson, the battle for equality in baseball.
The second part of the book is melancholy because it looks at men in the pre-Marvin Miller era who really had to make a living after being idolized by millions. Furillo was a construction worker who ate from a brown bag lunch. Bill Cox was a small town bartender etc. That will never happen again to the "new" Boys of Summer who play today's game.
This is a wonderfully written work and homage by a man who became the Herald Tribune' sports reporter for the Dodgers at age 24. There is so much to say about the book but others with much better writing skills have said it. I'll tell one story that I never knew. In the late 40,s Walter O'Malley had two other partners.One was Branch Rickey. When the third died, Rickey sought to sell his private stock to Joe Kennedy.The latter wanted to buy the team for his son John who was not in great health. O'Malley balked and Kennedy backed out because he didn't want a clash with a minority owner. As O'Malley later said, if He(O'Malley) had agreed Kennedy might be sitting in his chairman's chair right now and still be alive. That is something to think about.
Thanks H-man. That almost makes me want to read it again but there are so many i haven't read yet.
Mike wrote: "Thanks H-man. That almost makes me want to read it again but there are so many i haven't read yet." My pleasure Mike.
Mod
My copy arrived yesterday and I read the section that precedes Book 1 and loved it. It was evocative of a Brooklyn of the past, and baseball of that time that was lovely, if I can use that word in the context of baseball. I love the writing and hope the rest of the book is the same. I am reading loads of books right now so I'm not sure how soon I'll dig into this, but I am looking forward to reading it.
I think it is important from a historical standpoint to give Kahn credit for essentially inventing the "where are they now" type sports book which has been copied a thousand times over the years by lesser writers.
He was really the first to go back and look at what happens to athletes 10 or 15 years after they step out of the bright lights and fame. And the fact that this was such a mythical team with such great characters made it that much better.
Also, like Barbara noted, Brooklyn of the '40s and '50s evokes so many emotions, even for people like me who have only stepped foot there once (to jump off the subway and walk back to Manhattan across the Brooklyn Bridge and take pictures). From the great accents of dees and does and oiskine, to Ralph Kramden and Norton, to the war time Flatbush of the movies--it has grown larger even as it vanished from the earth over the years.
Also everyone wants to remember when ballplayers were friends and neighbors--just average schmucks who lived in row houses like everyone else, waved to their neighbors as they walked down the street to work (the only difference was they walked to Ebbets Field to work instead of a factory).
Kahn excelled in capturing that feeling.
Of course, he captured a lot of the unkinder, ungentler world of sports back then--how rough and dangerous it could be when hard men competed for a few extra scraps of dough without regard to anyone's well-being; the no-holds-barred bench jockeying in which absolutely anything was fair game; and the uncouth, uneducated rude comments by people like manager Dressen's views on sexual habits of his players and Dick Williams comments (not realizing that Kahn was Jewish) about . . . well, you'll have to read that part yourself.
He was really the first to go back and look at what happens to athletes 10 or 15 years after they step out of the bright lights and fame. And the fact that this was such a mythical team with such great characters made it that much better.
Also, like Barbara noted, Brooklyn of the '40s and '50s evokes so many emotions, even for people like me who have only stepped foot there once (to jump off the subway and walk back to Manhattan across the Brooklyn Bridge and take pictures). From the great accents of dees and does and oiskine, to Ralph Kramden and Norton, to the war time Flatbush of the movies--it has grown larger even as it vanished from the earth over the years.
Also everyone wants to remember when ballplayers were friends and neighbors--just average schmucks who lived in row houses like everyone else, waved to their neighbors as they walked down the street to work (the only difference was they walked to Ebbets Field to work instead of a factory).
Kahn excelled in capturing that feeling.
Of course, he captured a lot of the unkinder, ungentler world of sports back then--how rough and dangerous it could be when hard men competed for a few extra scraps of dough without regard to anyone's well-being; the no-holds-barred bench jockeying in which absolutely anything was fair game; and the uncouth, uneducated rude comments by people like manager Dressen's views on sexual habits of his players and Dick Williams comments (not realizing that Kahn was Jewish) about . . . well, you'll have to read that part yourself.
Mod
The first Roger Kahn book I read, Rickey & Robinson: The True, Untold Story of the Integration of Baseball, was one I REALLY didn't like, so I had to be convinced he was really that good. The Dempsey book was a big step so here's hoping this does too.
I think Kahn lost his touch after the Pete Rose debacle. His writing after 1993 certainly seemed to go down hill.
I am rereading it. I had forgotten how well the good-Kahn could write. His nostalgic memory of his childhood in Brooklyn at times is brilliant. He certainly could turn a phrase.
Also, I had forgotten how he portrayed his mother. She comes across as a pseudo-intellectual elitist, a wet blanket and a hen-pecking witch.
Also, I had forgotten how he portrayed his mother. She comes across as a pseudo-intellectual elitist, a wet blanket and a hen-pecking witch.
I think I should apologize for the above characterization of Kahn's mother.
I left out manipulative and viciously insensitive.
I left out manipulative and viciously insensitive.
I am continually impressed with Kahn's writing. We read a lot of baseball books that have very good research but the writing is (to borrow a phrase from my favorite sports literary reviewer) as dry as three day old chicken bones. Kahn could be a great writer at times.
He wrote of the postseason failings of the Dodgers and the affection of their fans, "You may glory in a team triumphant, but you fall in love with a team in defeat."
When he talks of his father hitting him grounders with hardballs and explains the coming of age moment millions of boys of that era experienced: "There is no faking on sharp grounders. You put your head down and follow the ball and hope that the last bounce will be true. . . . A kind of test is under way. . . Gordon Kahn is testing to see if his indulged, skinny, quick-tongued son dares show his face to hard ground balls. The bald mustached man . . . and the boy are reaching, sensing, challenging and I suppose loving one another through a fifty-cent baseball. . . . Head down, head down. The baseball smarts, but pain passes and I feel a crown of sweat and all sensations are obliterated by pride. I am showing Gordon Kahn that I am not afraid of the ball."
Of the Bobby Thomson home run: "Defeat, particularly dramatic defeat, confirms our worst image of ourselves. We are not effective, after all, not truly competent, not manly in crisis. . . We stand naked, before an unflattering mirror, hearing hard laughter that includes our own."
Especially poignant in view of last week's headlines, on his first trip through the south with the team, he is appalled by the legally sanctioned segregation but is dismayed that older reporters just pull the blinds on the train and ignore it. "They accepted apartheid with a brief, angry grunt, the way they accepted a cramped press box, or a sinewy steak. . . It was odd, I thought. We wrote about the games, the players and the prospects. But, here in a wounding land, no one would report or could report the horror all about--racism. . . . unreasoning racial hate threatening then as it threatens now to shatter the country. I wish I could . . . figure a way to get the real story in the paper."
Also, he was in the right place at the right time for the characters and team. If he had been a young reporter covering, say, the early '50s Reds of Hobie Landrith, Hershell Freeman and Wally Post, the book wouldn't have gotten off the ground.
He wrote of the postseason failings of the Dodgers and the affection of their fans, "You may glory in a team triumphant, but you fall in love with a team in defeat."
When he talks of his father hitting him grounders with hardballs and explains the coming of age moment millions of boys of that era experienced: "There is no faking on sharp grounders. You put your head down and follow the ball and hope that the last bounce will be true. . . . A kind of test is under way. . . Gordon Kahn is testing to see if his indulged, skinny, quick-tongued son dares show his face to hard ground balls. The bald mustached man . . . and the boy are reaching, sensing, challenging and I suppose loving one another through a fifty-cent baseball. . . . Head down, head down. The baseball smarts, but pain passes and I feel a crown of sweat and all sensations are obliterated by pride. I am showing Gordon Kahn that I am not afraid of the ball."
Of the Bobby Thomson home run: "Defeat, particularly dramatic defeat, confirms our worst image of ourselves. We are not effective, after all, not truly competent, not manly in crisis. . . We stand naked, before an unflattering mirror, hearing hard laughter that includes our own."
Especially poignant in view of last week's headlines, on his first trip through the south with the team, he is appalled by the legally sanctioned segregation but is dismayed that older reporters just pull the blinds on the train and ignore it. "They accepted apartheid with a brief, angry grunt, the way they accepted a cramped press box, or a sinewy steak. . . It was odd, I thought. We wrote about the games, the players and the prospects. But, here in a wounding land, no one would report or could report the horror all about--racism. . . . unreasoning racial hate threatening then as it threatens now to shatter the country. I wish I could . . . figure a way to get the real story in the paper."
Also, he was in the right place at the right time for the characters and team. If he had been a young reporter covering, say, the early '50s Reds of Hobie Landrith, Hershell Freeman and Wally Post, the book wouldn't have gotten off the ground.
Doug wrote: "I am continually impressed with Kahn's writing. We read a lot of baseball books that have very good research but the writing is (to borrow a phrase from my favorite sports literary reviewer) as dry..."Thanks for this review Doug. I just dipped into Boys of Summer and love the writing too! I am done with my summer break and back to the rat race so not sure when I'll be able to read it. But it's sitting on my night stand.
The chapter on Jackie Robinson is very interesting from a historical standpoint to see how far we've come, or regressed, as an integrated society.
I think it is very sad that young people today have very little idea of how things were and what he went through, and how he actually viewed the fight.
I remember a few years ago seeing that alot of people criticized Robinson because he supported Nixon in 1960. I felt he was unjustifiably criticized for exercising his constitutional right to vote for whoever the heck he felt he wanted to vote for. It doesn't really matter if you feel someone's vote is "right" or "wrong," the important thing is that they have the right to vote either way.
In the book, Robinson tells Kahn that he worries that all blacks are moving to the Democratic party and we will soon have two separate segregated parties: "It would make everything I worked for meaningless if baseball is integrated but political parties are segregated."
Also, Robinson fought the late '60s violence-oriented black militants who wanted to burn every trace of white society.
Kahn wrote, "He does not want society to burn. Burn America and you burn the achievements of Jackie Robinson. After ruinous anarchic blaze, who will remember the brave, fatherless boyhood, the fight for an inch of Army justice, the courage in baseball, the leadership and the triumph, of a free man who walked with swift and certain strides?"
I think it is very sad that young people today have very little idea of how things were and what he went through, and how he actually viewed the fight.
I remember a few years ago seeing that alot of people criticized Robinson because he supported Nixon in 1960. I felt he was unjustifiably criticized for exercising his constitutional right to vote for whoever the heck he felt he wanted to vote for. It doesn't really matter if you feel someone's vote is "right" or "wrong," the important thing is that they have the right to vote either way.
In the book, Robinson tells Kahn that he worries that all blacks are moving to the Democratic party and we will soon have two separate segregated parties: "It would make everything I worked for meaningless if baseball is integrated but political parties are segregated."
Also, Robinson fought the late '60s violence-oriented black militants who wanted to burn every trace of white society.
Kahn wrote, "He does not want society to burn. Burn America and you burn the achievements of Jackie Robinson. After ruinous anarchic blaze, who will remember the brave, fatherless boyhood, the fight for an inch of Army justice, the courage in baseball, the leadership and the triumph, of a free man who walked with swift and certain strides?"
Another thing that strikes a reader is how much public opinion of young kids with disabilities has changed over the years.
The section on Carl Erskine prominently featured the fact that his fourth child, Jimmy, had been born with Down's syndrome in 1960. At the time, the disease was callously referred to as Mongolism, due to the shape of their eyelids. Kahn included a medical definition of the condition which concluded with "such children are often imbeciles." While extremely stark and insulting, this definition refers back to the old classification of IQ in which below 25 was an "idiot," 26-50 was an "embicile," and 51-70 was a "moron." Unbelievable.
At the time of Jimmy's birth, Erskine and his wife were encouraged by doctors to leave Jimmy at the hospital, where he would be placed in an institution and "taken care of." They refused and brought him home to be a part of their family--almost revolutionary at the time.
I thought Kahn wrote about Jimmy very condescendingly, misspelling his attempted words phonetically, writing that he was overjoyed by being able to bounce a basketball 4 or 5 times, etc.
Historically, the Special Olympics came to Indiana around 1970, about the time the book was being written. Carl Erskine and his wife were early proponents of it and have remained very active in Indiana Special Olympics to this day.
I wrote on here last year when one of my patients had just moved here from Erskine's home town of Anderson (about 90 minutes away) and was a personal acquaintance of Erskine's for 50 years there. He said Jimmy, who is now 57, is doing very well and has been working for about 15 years at the local Appleby's. He and his dad often go to baseball games in Indy and Cincinnati. Carl played the National Anthem on his harmonica for an Indianapolis Pacer game a year or so ago.
The section on Carl Erskine prominently featured the fact that his fourth child, Jimmy, had been born with Down's syndrome in 1960. At the time, the disease was callously referred to as Mongolism, due to the shape of their eyelids. Kahn included a medical definition of the condition which concluded with "such children are often imbeciles." While extremely stark and insulting, this definition refers back to the old classification of IQ in which below 25 was an "idiot," 26-50 was an "embicile," and 51-70 was a "moron." Unbelievable.
At the time of Jimmy's birth, Erskine and his wife were encouraged by doctors to leave Jimmy at the hospital, where he would be placed in an institution and "taken care of." They refused and brought him home to be a part of their family--almost revolutionary at the time.
I thought Kahn wrote about Jimmy very condescendingly, misspelling his attempted words phonetically, writing that he was overjoyed by being able to bounce a basketball 4 or 5 times, etc.
Historically, the Special Olympics came to Indiana around 1970, about the time the book was being written. Carl Erskine and his wife were early proponents of it and have remained very active in Indiana Special Olympics to this day.
I wrote on here last year when one of my patients had just moved here from Erskine's home town of Anderson (about 90 minutes away) and was a personal acquaintance of Erskine's for 50 years there. He said Jimmy, who is now 57, is doing very well and has been working for about 15 years at the local Appleby's. He and his dad often go to baseball games in Indy and Cincinnati. Carl played the National Anthem on his harmonica for an Indianapolis Pacer game a year or so ago.
Doug wrote: "Another thing that strikes a reader is how much public opinion of young kids with disabilities has changed over the years. The section on Carl Erskine prominently featured the fact that his fourt..." That's a great update Doug I'm happy to hear some good news
Hi all you fans of MLB. I just finished The Boys of Summer. Kahn did an excellent job, pure nostalgia for me. I wrote a review and posted it on Goodreads if you are interested.
I really enjoyed this book. I had heard of this book, but had never picked it up. I'm very glad our group decided to read it. I loved the poetic feel to it. Roger Kahn writes beautifully. Here's a link to my review:
https://www.goodreads.com/review/show...
Joy D wrote: "I really enjoyed this book. I had heard of this book, but had never picked it up. I'm very glad our group decided to read it. I loved the poetic feel to it. Roger Kahn writes beautifully. Here's ..." It really is a story of a different America and a game that people listened to on the radio and waited for the next days newspapers to read about their heroes. It is truly beautifully told and heartfelt.
There's a poetic prose by two Rogers - Angell and Kahn - that paint pictures while telling stories.
Language can be such a powerful yet subtle tool and just a few sentences from the beginning of "The Boys Of Summer" made me want to continue turning the pages.
"Their skills lifted everyman's spirit and their defeat joined them with everyman's existence."
"No one prattled about team spirit. No one made speeches on the Rights of Man. No one sang 'Let My People Go.' But without pretense or visible fear these men marched unevenly against the sin of bigotry."
Language can be such a powerful yet subtle tool and just a few sentences from the beginning of "The Boys Of Summer" made me want to continue turning the pages.
"Their skills lifted everyman's spirit and their defeat joined them with everyman's existence."
"No one prattled about team spirit. No one made speeches on the Rights of Man. No one sang 'Let My People Go.' But without pretense or visible fear these men marched unevenly against the sin of bigotry."
Stu wrote: "There's a poetic prose by two Rogers - Angell and Kahn - that paint pictures while telling stories.Language can be such a powerful yet subtle tool and just a few sentences from the beginning of "..."
I agree Stu - I wish I had time to read more of it, but am putting it on hold to read this month's selection. But Kahn creates such a compelling picture of Brooklyn and baseball of the time. This is one that I definitely will get back to.
I'm still having some trouble navigating Goodreads. What is the title of the September Baseball Book selection?
Lance is at the Yankee game and Brina is offline because of the sabbath. I am fairly certain one of the two is Fastball John by Dave Jordan which I loved. It's about John D'Aquisto. Yes that's correct as well as Playing America's game.
Between Fastball John and Playing America's Game, financially, I'm rooting for the latter - neither title is available at my library, and Playing America's Game is quite affordable.
I bought the ebook of John. I rarely by hardbacks-no space.
Harold wrote: "Lance is at the Yankee game and Brina is offline because of the sabbath. I am fairly certain one of the two is Fastball John by Dave Jordan which I loved. It's about John D'Aquisto. Yes that's corr..."I saw a Fastball John discussion earlier today but can't find it now but didn't see a thread for Playing America's Game: Baseball, Latinos, and the Color Line. I read the preface and the intro to Playing America's Game and it looks like it will be very interesting. Burgos whose family is from Puerto Rico, are baseball lovers. Burgos did research on Latino players in the Negro Leagues and more. Anyway, it's a bit like the PBS show History Detectives. I'm up for reading about what he discovered.
Mod
Lance wrote: "Putting up those discussions right now, Barbara"Thanks! It's a holiday weekend so flexibility is in order.
Mod
I'll start because there is something that has been bothering me a little. First, let me say that I love this book and it should be in anyone's top five all-time baseball books for several different reasons.
BUT, in rereading (for the 3rd or 4th or 5th time) it recently I noticed something that kind of creeped me out before. Does anyone else get a kind of creepy vibe from Kahn? I know he definitely had some serious unresolved mommy issues, but the sexual weirdness just barely beneath the surface needs to be addressed, especially in this era of me-too.
First, he writes about watching the maid take baths, then feels let down when she ratted him out to his mom.
This leads to the very uncomfortable (and uninformative) conversation about sex with his father.
He later mentions--sort of bragging--something about how women look bad the morning after a one-night stand when he picked them up in a bar.
Then he mentions (oh yeah, surprise) that his marriages didn't seem to work out.
Later his reminiscences about his old stomping grounds include holding his books by his waste so he could brush up against girl's butts and cop a feel with the back of his hand on the subway and in halls.
Enough already. What is his problem? Some of these things he should keep to himself--we really don't want to read about them.
And I'm not going to mention the story about when he was talking to Dick Williams and Williams said something like things were going so bad for him off the field that he had only had sex with a few ugly girls and a Jew in the past month. Then realizing Kahn was Jewish, he offered the conciliatory, "But the Jew was the best lay of the bunch."
Other than that--it's a great book.
BUT, in rereading (for the 3rd or 4th or 5th time) it recently I noticed something that kind of creeped me out before. Does anyone else get a kind of creepy vibe from Kahn? I know he definitely had some serious unresolved mommy issues, but the sexual weirdness just barely beneath the surface needs to be addressed, especially in this era of me-too.
First, he writes about watching the maid take baths, then feels let down when she ratted him out to his mom.
This leads to the very uncomfortable (and uninformative) conversation about sex with his father.
He later mentions--sort of bragging--something about how women look bad the morning after a one-night stand when he picked them up in a bar.
Then he mentions (oh yeah, surprise) that his marriages didn't seem to work out.
Later his reminiscences about his old stomping grounds include holding his books by his waste so he could brush up against girl's butts and cop a feel with the back of his hand on the subway and in halls.
Enough already. What is his problem? Some of these things he should keep to himself--we really don't want to read about them.
And I'm not going to mention the story about when he was talking to Dick Williams and Williams said something like things were going so bad for him off the field that he had only had sex with a few ugly girls and a Jew in the past month. Then realizing Kahn was Jewish, he offered the conciliatory, "But the Jew was the best lay of the bunch."
Other than that--it's a great book.
I marvel at your memory retention. I don't have the vaguest memory of any of those but he sounds like Portnoy's complaint by Phillip Roth. Frankly, I thought the first half of the book was a bit boring but the meat of the book about the players was so touching that it moved me.
The other thing that strikes me now are the comments on race by Jackie Robinson and, particularly, Joe Black circa 1970.
In reading them I gained a very definite respect for Black as he discussed his beliefs and discouraged the reverse hatred from African-American youth and encouraged them to make the best of their opportunities without dwelling on the past. He tried to get them to stop bullying the white Jewish kids in the neighborhood and to become friends with them.
Also, Jackie preached to not accept slights and to keep pushing for rights, but to take advantage of the integration and not to self-segregate. I have heard several other players from the '60s talk about Jackie yelling at them when they sat together in the team dining hall--that he didn't work so hard for integration to watch them all sit together; to get over and meet and make friends with the white players like he had on his Dodgers of the '50s.
In reading it, it sounds very promising for the future.
But then you look at some recent headlines and it seems that in some ways we have taken a step backwards.
In reading them I gained a very definite respect for Black as he discussed his beliefs and discouraged the reverse hatred from African-American youth and encouraged them to make the best of their opportunities without dwelling on the past. He tried to get them to stop bullying the white Jewish kids in the neighborhood and to become friends with them.
Also, Jackie preached to not accept slights and to keep pushing for rights, but to take advantage of the integration and not to self-segregate. I have heard several other players from the '60s talk about Jackie yelling at them when they sat together in the team dining hall--that he didn't work so hard for integration to watch them all sit together; to get over and meet and make friends with the white players like he had on his Dodgers of the '50s.
In reading it, it sounds very promising for the future.
But then you look at some recent headlines and it seems that in some ways we have taken a step backwards.
The other chapter that hits home for me is the one on Carl Erskine and his son Jimmy who had Down's Syndrome because they live close and I know the rest of the story.
Jimmy was born in a time when doctors actually used the clinical terms idiot, moron and imbecile (they were based on levels of IQ) and women were encouraged to institutionalize Down's babies. Carl and his wife took him home and made him part of the family.
They live in Anderson, which is about an hour away from here and I have two patients who are personal friends of the Erskines.
Jimmy is now close to 60 and still works at a local Appleby's setting tables. He lived with his parents and functioned independently for years, but recently since the Erskines are well into their 90s, Jimmy has moved to an assisted-living place.
Carl and his wife essentially started the Indiana chapter of the Special Olympics in the late '60s and did tons of work for it for the next 50 years.
Carl is an icon in Anderson and they have named an elementary school for them.
Jimmy was born in a time when doctors actually used the clinical terms idiot, moron and imbecile (they were based on levels of IQ) and women were encouraged to institutionalize Down's babies. Carl and his wife took him home and made him part of the family.
They live in Anderson, which is about an hour away from here and I have two patients who are personal friends of the Erskines.
Jimmy is now close to 60 and still works at a local Appleby's setting tables. He lived with his parents and functioned independently for years, but recently since the Erskines are well into their 90s, Jimmy has moved to an assisted-living place.
Carl and his wife essentially started the Indiana chapter of the Special Olympics in the late '60s and did tons of work for it for the next 50 years.
Carl is an icon in Anderson and they have named an elementary school for them.
Fascinating, Doug. Reminds me of reading The Godfather last year and getting skeeved out by the way a few of the women were treated and/or how the men were portrayed.
Godfather was a great read.
Ashley *Hufflepuff Kitten* wrote: "Fascinating, Doug. Reminds me of reading The Godfather last year and getting skeeved out by the way a few of the women were treated and/or how the men were portrayed."
Good point. I haven't seen Godfather in a while but I guess it does show quite a bit of anachronistic behavior. From Sonny taking his girlfriend upstairs at the wedding, to Talia Shire's husband beating her and calling her a spoiled wop, to Michael closing the door in his wife's face as he tends to "man's" business. The women of Godfather were uniformly treated as lower class citizens, there only for the entertainment of men.
I think these old books and movies do show what a huge change has occurred in society over 50 years--sometime we don't notice the day to day shift, but when we look back it is startling.
Good point. I haven't seen Godfather in a while but I guess it does show quite a bit of anachronistic behavior. From Sonny taking his girlfriend upstairs at the wedding, to Talia Shire's husband beating her and calling her a spoiled wop, to Michael closing the door in his wife's face as he tends to "man's" business. The women of Godfather were uniformly treated as lower class citizens, there only for the entertainment of men.
I think these old books and movies do show what a huge change has occurred in society over 50 years--sometime we don't notice the day to day shift, but when we look back it is startling.
Erskine's profile was very touching and you couldn't help coming away with the utmost respect for the man. The tragic figure that I remember was Carl Furillo working on top of sky scrapers and eating his lunch from a paper bag on a beam. I recall that Billy Cox landed a pretty good job as owner of a liquor store down south.
Harold wrote: "Erskine's profile was very touching and you couldn't help coming away with the utmost respect for the man. The tragic figure that I remember was Carl Furillo working on top of sky scrapers and eati..."
You also get a funny feeling when you realize that the tower Furillo was working on during the interview was a little thing called the World Trade Center.
You also get a funny feeling when you realize that the tower Furillo was working on during the interview was a little thing called the World Trade Center.
Doug wrote: "Harold wrote: "Erskine's profile was very touching and you couldn't help coming away with the utmost respect for the man. The tragic figure that I remember was Carl Furillo working on top of sky sc..." Geez, I forgot that too
Doug wrote: "Good point. I haven't seen Godfather in a while but I guess it does show quite a bit of anachronistic behavior. From Sonny taking his girlfriend upstairs at the wedding, to Talia Shire's husband beating her and calling her a spoiled wop, to Michael closing the door in his wife's face as he tends to "man's" business. The women of Godfather were uniformly treated as lower class citizens, there only for the entertainment of men."I specifically remember a scene in the book where someone (Fontaine, maybe?) takes a girl to the doctor and she has to endure a whole speech about how he can supposedly "fix" (view spoiler). The movie didn't bother me too much, but then I didn't have to deal with pages and pages about how big Sonny Corleone's junk was, lmao.
Ashley *Hufflepuff Kitten* wrote: "Doug wrote: "Good point. I haven't seen Godfather in a while but I guess it does show quite a bit of anachronistic behavior. From Sonny taking his girlfriend upstairs at the wedding, to Talia Shire..."
I didn't read the book. Now maybe I'm glad I didn't--I would never be able to watch James Caan in Brian's Song again with that image in my head.
I didn't read the book. Now maybe I'm glad I didn't--I would never be able to watch James Caan in Brian's Song again with that image in my head.
As good as the movie is the book is much more intense. Bite the bullet and read it.
Mike wrote: "As good as the movie is the book is much more intense. Bite the bullet and read it."I think it's a draw. One memory I have of reading the book was the summer of 1970. My best friend and I would lift weights at each other's house on alternative days. We had one copy of the book and we would read it while the other guy was doing reps. The book was riveting and intense but so was the movie. It's hard for me to choose because the movie is the best of all time IMO.
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The Baseball Book Club
Books mentioned in this topic
Playing America's Game: Baseball, Latinos, and the Color Line (Volume 23) (other topics)Rickey & Robinson: The True, Untold Story of the Integration of Baseball (other topics)
