A Song of Ice & Fire Fans discussion

So over at Tower of the Hand they have a post about GRRM's editor's expectation that she hopes to get A Dance with Dragons by November, which would slate if for a February/March release.

That would be really great, I can't wait. :)

That would be wonderful, but I'm not holding my breath

Like Amy said, I'm not holding my breath either. Not to mention, isn't that a really quick turnaround for editing/publishing?

Patrick Rothfuss turned in his manuscript a couple months ago and they are hoping for an April 2010 release.

I'm no editor, but to me it would take more than a couple of months to edit 1000+ pages

Im holding my breath.

I barely even care anymore. It's been so long since I read the first 4 books. If it even does come out, I don't even know that I'll read it.

Who am I kidding?

I must say I agree with Robin in a way. I've loved reading the books but it seems like years now since I read the first one....if it never came out it wouldn't phase me. I've been a big fan but there's some great writers out there.

I can't believe some people are saying they don't care about the new book. If you forgot the other books just read them again!! I am as frustrated as anyone about the long wait, but I love these books, I love these characters and I will always read whatever GRRM writes.

I'll definitely be reading the new book. I'll probably use one of the sites that has a good synopsis of each chapter of the previous books beforehand instead of re-reading each one.

I just hope he can get the ball rolling and finish the next couple books in shorter periods of time. Remember, A Dance With Dragons was supposed to be almost finished when A Feast For Crows was published. We can see how well that turned out....

A little update from Martin's blog (grrm.livejournal.com):

Finished a Jon Snow chapter, and have just passed the 1100 page (manuscript pages, the page count in the final printed book will be different) mark on A DANCE WITH DRAGONS. That's counting only finished chapters in something close to final form. I have considerably more in partials, fragments, and roughs.

Even with just the finished portions, DANCE is now longer than A FEAST FOR CROWS and A GAME OF THRONES, and I'm closing in on A CLASH OF KINGS. I do hope I can wrap things up before I approach the 1521 page length of A STORM OF SWORDS.

You can read it here: http://grrm.livejournal.com/113041.html

Anyway, seems like it may be finished in the near future :)

I like to know what happens. I have to finish Feast of Crows. By the time I finish Feast of Crows, Dance of Dragons will be out probably. March is a much closer date than November 2010.

It's just so frustrating! I really love the books, but feel as some others do that I'd have to read them over to really enjoy the next one. What I find the most disheartening is that we'll read the next one, get all caught up in it again and then wait another 3 years for the next book. I go between just so mad and saying I'm done, to checking GRRM's website just praying there's an update...

Now it's the new year and we're all hanging out still for the new book ....well I'm not ...I've given up waiting and have to say I'm not impressed.He's an author not a god.Dump him, I have... there's too many other great books to read.I'll pick it up in the second hand shop in 2014....

We can only hope!

Our luck he'll die before he ever gets it done. Maybe he needs to get hit by a car like Stephen King to get him moving on it...meh.

That's really bad Dr.

That'd be bad because Dark Tower went to hell after King's accident. It was close to being one of the best series of all time with Dune, LoTR, and ASoIF. But I won't even really recommend it to anyone now.

I talked to a friend about it, and I think in this day and age, especial after Jordan, that Martin has a backup plan, cause he seems like he'd be a pretty realistic just-in-case guy. My friend however doesn't, but does most definitely believe the publisher does.

I have a hard time thinking that a song of ice and fire is even near as good as the dark tower series, but I can accept that... I certainly would not be comfortable putting it up there with Dune and LOTR, that's madness.

It's better than LoTR

ASoIF is right up with Dune and LoTR in my opinion. Now some nay-sayers might say it hasn't had, nor will have, the same impact. Which might be true, but I don't think we can measure things by the same standard anymore. I think it is, and will continue to get more so, harder to have the same level of impact(or recognition) now than it was in the past. Not because the works are any less revolutionary/groundbreaking, but because the field[literature:] is getting larger and larger, and audiences are getting more and more niche in this ever connecting world of the 21st century.

Dark Tower would have been up there, but King made himself the center of the universe, which is retarded. I could've accepted and rationalized the first cameo, but not the rest. As it stands, I will only recommend it as an example of egotistical madness produced by a near-death experience, catalyzed by fame, which ruined a possible great work of literature.

Better than Lord of the Rings? Ouch.

I can't stand LotR

Thats cool, I hear that alot these days. I get the feeling it's one of those things that's hip to hate. That generally happens to anything so prolific.

Jayme wrote: "It's better than LoTR" I agree. A lot.

I would have to agree with Josh.

Don't rush an artist. I just hope that the series continues with the same high standards and is completed within my lifetime.

and how much longer is your lifetime?

I don't see the series haven't any impact on ADWD's release, save distracting Martin with casting stuff, and input(which I don't know how much he does or will do(if any)).

Sure the series will spawn interest and some book sales, but pretty much just AGOT ones, then if people get hook they buy the others. So the publisher has no reason to hold ADWD back, because its for an already existing audience which only dwindles with time. So they want it on shelves asap.

hear hear, course I haven't finished A Feast of Crows.

I just realized all of the books currently start with A, and all will, save The Winds of Winter(which is suppose to be the one after ADWD, followed by A Dream of Spring).

Move along, nothing to see here.

The Wheel of Time Series wasn't all that anyways. Maybe someone can ghost write for him.

As I posted earlier, I like to think Martin is smart enough to have keyed into this possibility. And if he hasn't his publisher definitely has.

that would be ideal.

Josh wrote: "What I don't understand, is that GRRM has been saying ADWD is almost done since 2006, the..."

Well there was one point where he scrapped almost everything he had written for "ADWD" before and went back to the start and that's where the trouble started. (Must have been in 2007 or very early in 2008, since i was already waiting hard for the continuation of the series and i've read them sometimes during the summer of '07)

When you're following his Livejournal "not a blog" then you are kept up-to-date with his momentary progress... since octorbre he wrote another hundred and something pages so that the goal of 1500 pages should be finally reached sometime this year, if he doesn't feel compelled to go over some of the chapters again and decides to put them aside for book six, then it will take longer, because he will have to write additional materiel for ADWD to keep his pagecount like planned.

I fully agree with his rants that no author is the slave of his readers and there is absolutely nothing which entitles us as his "followers" to get any new stuff any time soon. It's inhuman to keep the discipline and routine of writing at such level and speed like he did with the first four volumes for over a decade. But i also feel sad, that there is an outright rift between the first few books and the upcoming volumen, because after a similar delay (baby pause) Miss Rowling started to lose her grip on her own universe and the result was by far not as rewarding as the start of the series... When a book is delayed longer and longer and the author decides to rewrite it several times, then i don't feel very much confidence in the result. Hopefully i will be wrong and ADWD will prove me SOOO wrong simply by being an awesome story and the perfect continuation of the other books, but at the moment i don't feel as if there's much chance for being wrong.

If he keeps this up, he will die before the series is done.

Jayme wrote: "If he keeps this up, he will die before the series is done."

He was actually trying to pull a "Robert Jordan", but I'm sure he'll be disappointed that you're on to him....

Bjoern wrote: "because after a similar delay (baby pause) Miss Rowling started to lose her grip on her own universe and the result was by far not as rewarding as the start of the series..."

You have a good point, but how dare you compare ASoIF to such, such... Children stories!


On the original point, I have a feeling that the latter half of the series will/would have a different feel, regardless of the extended time between release(or might even be the cause of it). The dragons, and their relationship to the reawakening of magic are the primary factors in that assumption/speculation.

I mean granted I am not done with Feast of Crows but we demand more. There is nothing more unsatisfying than not being able to finish a good series.

Allen wrote: "
You have a good point, but how dare you compare ASoIF to such, such... Children stories!"

Sorry, but i see here mostly a difference in the wrapping, whilst the core of the Story is not so different at all. Sure, Asoiaf is one of the few fantasy epics that does not depend directly on "coming of age" as the skeleton of its story, but the element is there in form of the Stark children (or Theon or the Lannister kids etc.) even if it has some dominating other story telling schemes by its sides.

Potter OTOH does on the first look seem to be "simple" childrens literature, but in the background there is going on quite a lot of mythmaking, of history telling and creating a far larger universe than would be needed just for the seemingly obvious main story.

There are many points where both series meet another and cross lines hence and forth, if you look closely you'll discover this similarities like you now see only the discrepancies.

I would always say, that i prefer the more extensive complexity of the I&F books over the more straightlined cast and plot of all seven Potters, but i would NEVER say that this means they're "Better", just more to my (momentary) likings and they have til yet not stumbled upon any plotpoint i'd find badly told. But then there are three books [or more:] still to come and everything could happen.


Ehh as on the reawakening of the Dragons.. well, we still don't know what the "song" in itself does mean. As we have seen "ice" newly emerging from the North there has to be a clash with the Forces of the South which should include as much of "fire" as they ever can... which could mean Dragons or could mean just obsidian weapons and the crazy red women while atother places Westeros will have to be defended against the Returns of the Targaryens before having kicked the Wights completely.

And then theree's the promise that at the end of the last book we will understand the working of this crazy seasons they've got on this world, so yet another possible meaning for the series title...

Bjoern wrote: "I would always say, that i prefer the more extensive complexity of the I&F books over the more straightlined cast and plot of all seven Potters, but i would NEVER say that this means they're "Better", just more to my (momentary) likings and they have til yet not stumbled upon any plotpoint i'd find badly told. But then there are three books [or more:] still to come and everything could happen."

Eh, to each their own. I personally put Potter in the same bin as Twilight.

Allen wrote: "Eh, to each their own. I personally put Potter in the same bin as Twilight. "

That's really a lot of accusation to wield around :D

And you should clearly have in mind the main difference: The Potters are meant for a growing public, adolescenting youths that go from childish excitement on to almost adult scepticism or at least worldview... whereas whatever i've heard (and read) about the Twilight Series it's clearly meant for consummation in the hormonally fogged inbetween years where neither is applicable. Just watch the crowds which "fan" both series in books and movies.
Just never make the mistake to judge a book solely by it's fandom and media coverage, both might be slightly misleading, especially if there's a motion picture series going on with the books as a template. Or as our Elders said: Never judge a book by it's cover!


And after all: it's a hell of a job to write convincing books for pre-teens and teenagers, as they're a very sharp audience in their own way. They may ignore a lot of things no adult would ever forgive any author, but they certainly have their own points of "no go" and somehow both series managed to steer around that kind of cliffs as their goaled audience is obviously very satisfied with them.

But as ever: Your mileage may vary and the best arguments can not really turn any conviction one already harbored before reading it.

And i repeat. I enjoy the Martin Books MORE than the Rowlings, especially after how the last one by JKR was ended.-. but as George still is writing that might change. HE still might ruin his own work, even if the chance is not very large and he is much more experienced in the business than JK Rowling.

Who are we comparing?

The Song and the Potterbooks

Potterbooks as in Harry Potter? The Song as In Song of Ice and Fire? If that is what we are comparing I like them both and I don't put the Potter books in the same category as The Song of Ice and Fire because Harry Potter is originally a children series and a very good children series.