ManBookering discussion

This thread is for any miscellaneous discussions that you may have about the longlist, that don't necessarily pertain to 1 single book from the list. Please still give spoiler warnings if your comment contains them! Thanks!

There seem to be a lot of connections between books this year. Here is a couple I have noticed:

1. The founding of America (discussed in The Underground Railroad and in Days Without End).
2. The use of a fantastical mode of transport (an underground railroad in The Underground Railroad and magic doors in Exit West) to move people around into different places where we see different reactions to their situations.

Also a quote from The Ministry of Utmost Happiness that says And so, at the age of fifteen, only a few hundred yards from where his family had lived for centuries, Aftab stepped through an ordinary doorway into another universe. which reminded me of Exit West.

In Swing Time, there is reference to the underground railroad.

I could go on. Add yours here!

Ok so far within the six books I've read, Gender identity/fluidity/relationships link all novels.

It's present in Days without End, especially the second chapter - the main character in the Ministry of Utmost Happiness - The relationship in Autumn.

Then Underground Railroad, Exit West and History of Wolves deal with unconventional (if this is not the right term please correct me) relationships.

I'll be updating this as I proceed with the list.

Then something which is totally coincidental but made me smile was that in Autumn a character says (5) 4 3 2 1 while in another section a bardo is being discussed (these are not spoilers)

This is my first year actively reading the long list and I do notice a theme. For anyone who has read the list in the past, can you usually pick up on themes or connections?

Corey wrote: "This is my first year actively reading the long list and I do notice a theme. For anyone who has read the list in the past, can you usually pick up on themes or connections?"

Yes it's usually commonplace. In 2013 a lot of the longlisted books consisted of emigrants trying to adapt to their new country of choice.

In 2014 the longlist focused on people and how they interact with 21st century society be it art, religion, business.

The 2015 longlist had themes that were similar to the 2013 longlist.

2016 was scattered but I guess the main emphasis was person vs society but not necessarily contemporary society as some novels had a historical background.

Thanks, Robert. Based on the few listed books I've read in the recent years I can see how they fit in.

Corey wrote: "Thanks, Robert. Based on the few listed books I've read in the recent years I can see how they fit in."

What I do is read about the background of the judges and try imagine the books they will choose. My fave longlist ( i've been following the booker seriously when Life of Pi won - 2003?) is the 2014 one which was chaired by philosopher AC Grayling and a lot of the choices on the list reflect something that a Philosophy professor (having my parents and relatives lecturers in the subject) would like

Neil. The foundation myths of America (or more accurately white society in America) are also included in Exit West (in the comments on the relative absence of natives).

Some other thoughts:

Two books have narrators not aware that they are dead, but I won't say which.

A number of books feature politics and politicians heavily - an MP and previously local councillor in Swing Time, local pork belly politics in Solar Bones, a President in bardo, student activism and the political reaction in 4321.

And there's the Le Gon/Boty parallelism in Swing Time and Autumn - as in a real life character providing inspiration for the story.

In another topic that might fit here, I've been looking back over the last six years that I have been reading and rating the books. Here's my average ratings:

2015 3.69
2012 3.63
2014 3.61
2013 3.40
2011 3.20
2016 2.92

You can see that I really didn't like last year. But the year before that was my favourite.

I should also acknowledge that a couple of the early years are not based on a full set - I think 2011 was the last year I read only the short list, for example. After 2011, I read almost all of the books.

RIP 2016. Not a good year all around.

Back to the topics of links, economic migration is of course the main theme of Exit West but features also in: Days Without End (crucial to the plot here is the impact that desperate Irish migrants fleeing to America had on the brutality of the Indian and Civil Wars); Autumn (i recall anti immigrant graffiti); Swing Time (the village in the Gambia losing its young men to the back way with impacts for those left behind, Hawa and Lamin engineer their own escapes); Underground Railroad (North Carolina using immigrant labour to replace slave labour and achieve their extreme racial policies); Ministry of Utmost Happiness (government engineered migration to Kashmir); and I believe Home Fire.

yes - it does feature in Home Fire as wel

The more of the books I read, the more it seems like citizenship in some form or other is an underlying theme.

Citizenship, but also I think on a larger scale, identity. And identity is often formed by citizenship. But also in many instances in these books, sexuality, age, gender, religion. At least from what I've read so far.

Maxwell wrote: "Citizenship, but also I think on a larger scale, identity. And identity is often formed by citizenship. But also in many instances in these books, sexuality, age, gender, religion. At least from wh..."

I was just about to post a comment about how 'identity' is a theme this year, when I saw yours... Great minds think alike :-)

Did anyone read the acknowledgments in Home Fire - another connection

Home Fire not released in U.K. yet! Tuesday next week.

Robert wrote: "Did anyone read the acknowledgments in Home Fire - another connection"

You mean Shamsie thanking Ali Smith? That is truly interesting! :-)

Yes! Ah i received my copy from book depository last week and elmet was dispatched on Wednesday :)

Home Fire and Reservoir 13 both feature twins, though the ones in Reservoir 13 are minor characters...

Extremely random but the onaematepia struck me as slightly unusual first time, so it was even odder to come across it the second time.

History of Wolves has a "wumff" of cascading ice in chapter 2 and Home Fire a "whump" of dislodged snow in chapter 1.

Corey wrote: "This is my first year actively reading the long list and I do notice a theme. For anyone who has read the list in the past, can you usually pick up on themes or connections?"

2015 definitely had a theme of family relationships(Green Road, Spool of Blue Thread, Illuminations, Fisherman) and how the individual's past has shaped them(Sleeping on Jupiter, A Little Life, Lila, Did You Ever Have A Family).

My copy of Lincoln in the Bardo has a quote by Zadie Smith on the back cover:
'A morally passionate, serious writer ... He will be read long after these times have passed.'

Autumn finishes two days into November, the same day on which Solar Bones is set, and says "All the souls are out marauding"

There is also a reference to migrating swifts just like in Reservoir 13.

For those who have not heard the podcast, I wanted to share the brief comments from the judges (Lila Azam Zanganeh and Colin Thubron) on the longlist, as I did last year. Unfortunately, I didn’t think they did as great a job explaining as the judges did last year, but I’ll share each comment in the appropriate threads. In general, here are some other comments they shared:

Lila Azam Zanganeh (LZ)
Colin Thubron (CT)

Interviewer:
There are 4 American authors on this list that we’ll get to in just a moment. How would you say the American fiction scene compares to the UK based on your readings of these?

CT:
I think they are much more ambitious. They are much more likely to take on something rather grand, sometimes for better or worse. For the four we have here, of course, the better. But on the whole, I’d say that reaching for something more sort of grand and complex than the average English one. There is a difference, being very controversialist, whether the Booker should include American/United States novels as well as those that were previously there. There are certainly quite some fundamental differences to my mind.

Interviewer:
More ambitious in scale or in size?

CT:
In size quite often, in scale certainly. Maybe in historical reach or maybe in the eagerness to embrace political issues and a certain desire for some sort of complexity, rather than for the traditional well-made novel. The American novels submitted to us were hugely different from one another as well.

Interviewer:
And Lila, how have you found the process? Have you found any themes that have cropped up in the books that you have been reading?

LAZ:
I can’t say that I have found any themes, just a huge, huge diversity. But I have to say that I fully embrace the inclusion of Americans because it is not just Americans. It is actually every writer who is writing in English can be entered, so when I was looking through the spreadsheet, I saw a Russian woman whose book had been entered and so many different…nationality doesn’t matter anymore, and in this way, I think the Man Booker has made itself more relevant. It’s, in de facto, become the most important prize after the Nobel. So, that’s very exciting. And so therefore, of course, there is no unity of theme.

Interviewer:
Ok, so to the list then I think we should go. […]

[…]

Interviewer:
Was it quite hard to get to those 13?

CT: I think one thing about the longlist, as opposed to the shortlist, is that it allows more latitude to the enthusiasms of individual judges. Maybe 2 of the 5, they are able to push their choice to the others to draw attention once again to certain books. So in a way, the longlist may be less consensual than the shortlist. It’s been a very pleasing and happy process.

[…]

LAZ: We’re very respectful of each other. We’ve listened to each other very well. My heart is not dead set on a set of books. I can see the flaws in some books that my fellow judges have pointed out. I recognize them. I’m open to entering books on the list that are not necessarily my favorite books. I just think what the result will be, will be powerful because it will be the result of us 5 not necessarily fighting but really hearing each other out.

Question for everyone here. I'm over halfway through the list and really enjoying it. Do you all plan to read all of the longlisted book even if they don't make the shortlist and you haven't read them yet?

Corey wrote: "Question for everyone here. I'm over halfway through the list and really enjoying it. Do you all plan to read all of the longlisted book even if they don't make the shortlist and you haven't read t..."

Yes because 1) I'm a completest and 2) I like to see if the book left out was shortlist worthy. Oh and 3) there's the possibility of finding a new author.

Robert wrote: "Corey wrote: "Question for everyone here. I'm over halfway through the list and really enjoying it. Do you all plan to read all of the longlisted book even if they don't make the shortlist and you ..."

Good points, Robert. I plan to finish the entire list as well, mainly to fulfill points 2 and 3!

I'm planning to read all except ministry of happiness unless it makes the shortlist... I have more than a strong feeling that it won't be my kinda book. I'm also going to reread a few if they make it to the shortlist... Autumn for definite!!

I've been thinking about rereads as well. I think I will wait and possible reread the winner, depending on what it is.

Good question and one I am pondering. I've read 11/13, but 4 3 2 1 and History of Wolves are sitting on my shelves and I am struggling to summon up the enthusiasm to pick them up.

From Robert's points, I've seen enough reviews, including from people who taste I'm able to calibrate reasonably reliably to my own, to suspect that the answer to 2) is no (to my taste) and the answer to 3) is not likely.

And on 1) while I am a completist, there are lots of other things to complete. E.g. there are several authors where I've read all their previous books and an unusually large number with new ones out or due also demanding my attention (Pamuk, Marias, Krasznahorkai, Petterson, Rushdie, Murakami).

Ultimately one book read is another not read.

I'll ultimately let the judges decide and likely finish the last two only if shortlisted.

I have four remaining, and have no intention of reading any of these before the shortlist is announced - they are Saunders, Roy, Auster and Fridlund. Given the number of negative reviews, I may well never get round to The History of Wolves, but I will definitely read the other three once they are available in paperback - they are all rather expensive in the UK at the moment. (I am not a member of a library, I don't have an e-reader and I have a backlog of almost 40 books on the shelf to read in the meantime). I have already read more than last year.

I plan on finishing all 13 before the shortlist is announced, which I've never done before. Currently reading Ministry and still have Solar Bones, Reservoir 13, 4 3 2 1 and Elmet remaining. (I'm excited to read 3 of those 4 from what I've heard from the group.) I have too many other books to read to reread anything, but I may reread the winner somewhere down the line. Lincoln in the Bardo still least favorite so far...though I don't know...Ministry might be down there the way it's going...