The Catholic Book Club discussion

3. In what ways does this book parallel the real history of the "dark ages," the Renaissance era, and the development of modern technology?

Well i suppose that i am an historian this part is suitable for me. The idea of the monasteries of Miller is inspired especially in the Citadels of God of Saint Benedict, however the Cister of Saint Bernard appears, and the Dominicans, perhps the wisest order of the Medieval Age. In this case did not exist the Cartesian division created by Descartes destroying the Scholastic, and dividing the Theology, Philosophy and Science before of the 17th century this disciplines were joined. One of the things that i love of Goodreads that they do not follow the cartesian model that Europe unfortunatelly follows. Kornhoern reminds me very much to the franciscan Roger Bacon, and Robert Grossesteste, alo it is interesting that the order was inspired in Saint Albert Magnus, that in the world of university is the Patron Saint of the chemist. In my opinion Saint Albert Magnus was the christian Aristotle of Middle Ages, a light candle only overshadowed by Saint Thomas Aquinas, although scientifically the Saint Albert`s labor is better than Saint Thomas Aquinas.
About Bacon he is character, a part of Walter Miller Jr, interested very much to Anthony Boucher (a writer and publisher whom Walter M. Miller Jr. dedicated "Canticle for Leibowitz"). Anthony Boucher is something should be rescued in United States, and Spain should know that he exists. He was a big friend and protector of James the agnostic english writer, who wrote "A case of conscience" who writes a novel with Roger Bacon as main character. Fiat Homo would be the dark age, and Fiat lux would be that in Spain calls the full middle age, perhaps one of the most briliant period of the history of the mankind. In my next message i promises surprise, because i will speak about the catholic science fiction writers ;-).

Fonch wrote: "Well i suppose that i am an historian this part is suitable for me..."

I would say that Fiat Lux is the Renaissance, although with a touch of Enlightenment. The politics are medieval, but the science is already far in advance (they are able to produce artificial electric light, thus the name of the Part, therefore nineteenth century).

A small correction, Fonch: the English title of James Blish's novel is "A case of conscience." Also, his novel about Roger Bacon is called "Doctor mirabilis."

Manuel wrote: "Fonch wrote: "Well i suppose that i am an historian this part is suitable for me..."

I would say that Fiat Lux is the Renaissance, although with a touch of Enlightenment. The politics are medieval..."

I think that we should consider that the authentic illustration the century 12th-14 th century that it is the authentic period of light, about the 18th especially the french illustration looks me and authentic fraud of course illustrators have a good press, but his only deed was to try destroy the Catholic Church in this case with the objective to hide an adultery between the King Louis XV, and his lover Jean Poissons, more well known as Madame Pompadour. The hatred against the Jesuits borned for his reject to the slavery market, and because they were who discovers this relationship. A part they do not want a modern democracy. They want to protect the Enlightened Despotism. A part the authentic creator of the Enlightnet it was not Montesquieu, his authentic creator was John Locke. One of the most anticatholic thinker of the history. His glorious revolution it was not more than a vile usurpation. He sold a tolerance that it was fake, because catholic and atheist were pursued. About the Renassaince it was the corruption of this movement ans his paganization, who excited the hatred of Luther against the Catholic Church, and the relaxation of customs of Italy. A part the Italian Renassaince it was totally hostile to Spain. I recomend a book that unfortunatelly has not been translated to English his entitle would be more or less it would be "Empirephobia and black legend" was written by the spanish writer Maria Elvira Roca Barea https://www.goodreads.com/author/show...
I am not correcting to my friend Alfonseca i only give information about Renassaince, and Enlightment, about the Renassaince i have the theory that this movement started in the 13th, or 14 th century and his authentic creators are Dante, and the Painter Giotto, therefore before his paganization would be christian. The presence of paganism would be to look the truth and the inheritance of the truth in the pagan civilization, the seed of the truth, who defined Saint Justin. Dante was inspired in the creator of Dominican, Saint Dominic Guzman.
PD. Now that i conclude my intervention i am going to prepare my next movement about the scince fiction catholic writers i shared with the members of Catholic Book Club this link of the catholic writers Sandra Miesel in Ignatius Press of 2006, speaking about this topic. She spke about several writers between them Walter M. Miller Jr. http://www.ignatiusinsight.com/featur...

I'm not sure, but the novel seems to cover a longer time period than our recorded history, as if it took much longer for scientific breakthroughs to occur. In Fiat Homo, the Memorabilia seem so scant and insignificant (Leibowitz' shopping list!) I was very surprised in Fiat Lux to find out how extensive they were.
But I find it interesting that the monks seem to find fundamentalism (Apollo saying light wasn't refrangible before God created the rainbow in Noah's time) ridiculous. Modern writers sometimes assume earlier generations chose a literal interpretation of Scripture to refute the evidence of science.

Jill wrote: "I'm not sure, but the novel seems to cover a longer time period than our recorded history, as if it took much longer for scientific breakthroughs to occur. In Fiat Homo, the Memorabilia seem so sca..."

It is curious that you say this Jill, because Saint Agustine of Hippo said this, that we must not do a literal interpretations of the scripture. Perhaps if the protestant had followed this advise they would not have had any problem with Darwin. It is necesary that this question was answered by my friend Alfonseca. I only can answer historical questions.

I think the Catholic Church does a very good job of understanding that there are different types of writing in the Bible and most of it doesn't intend to be scientific so can't be in conflict with scientific truth. But unbelievers or secular thinkers sometimes tar all Christians with the brush of being fundamentalists, so I enjoyed Miller having the whole company of monks break out in laughter when Thon Taddeo suggests such.

Jill wrote: "I think the Catholic Church does a very good job of understanding that there are different types of writing in the Bible and most of it doesn't intend to be scientific so can't be in conflict with ..."

I love very much when the Abbot says to Thaddeo, that an idea similar to the evolution can be found it in Saint Agustine of Hippo, briliant. The inventor monk remind me to Roger Bacon or Robert Grosseteste.

Fonch wrote: "The inventor monk remind me to Roger Bacon or Robert Grosseteste."

The scientific and technical improvements that took place during the Middle Ages were many, usually ignored by those who speak about a dark age. A mentioned a few in this post in my blog:
http://populscience.blogspot.com/2016...

Manuel wrote: "Fonch wrote: "The inventor monk remind me to Roger Bacon or Robert Grosseteste."

The scientific and technical improvements that took place during the Middle Ages were many, usually ignored by thos..."

Totallya gree with Alfonseca i recomend the book by Thomas E. Woods How the Catholic Church Built Western Civilization https://www.goodreads.com/book/show/3...

Hannegan reminds me of Henry VIII.

I was puzzled by the existence of a hereditary monarchy (11-year-old sovereign) so far in the future.

Jill wrote: "Hannegan reminds me of Henry VIII.

I was puzzled by the existence of a hereditary monarchy (11-year-old sovereign) so far in the future."

After of the Fall out the society came back a period remind to the the Medieval Age. The third period Fiat voluntas tua they got a tegnology bigger than our tegnology, even they can travel to Alpha Centauri.

Jill wrote: "I was puzzled by the existence of a hereditary monarchy (11-year-old sovereign) so far in the future."

But the third part of the novel resembles our own epoch (we are now speaking about self-driving cars) and we also have hereditary monarchies, i.e. the U.K. or Spain.

Jill wrote: "I'm not sure, but the novel seems to cover a longer time period than our recorded history, as if it took much longer for scientific breakthroughs to occur. In Fiat Homo, the Memorabilia seem so sca..."

I actually thought the reverse. I can't find the dates now, but I thought I remembered the second nuclear war happening in the 3400s, give or take. So 14 centuries in the second time around compared to 20 centuries the first time. That made sense to me.

I think Miller is reflecting the idea that monasteries preserved literacy and many works of the past after the collapse of Roman civilization. and so that obviously his construct for Canticle.