Ancient & Medieval Historical Fiction discussion

This is the discussion thread for the October Group Read of Gates of Fire by Steve Pressfield. Enjoy! (or not..that works too)

Book blurb
"The national bestseller!

At Thermopylae, a rocky mountain pass in northern Greece, the feared and admired Spartan soldiers stood three hundred strong. Theirs was a suicide mission, to hold the pass against the invading millions of the mighty Persian army.

Day after bloody day they withstood the terrible onslaught, buying time for the Greeks to rally their forces. Born into a cult of spiritual courage, physical endurance, and unmatched battle skill, the Spartans would be remembered for the greatest military stand in history--one that would not end until the rocks were awash with blood, leaving only one gravely injured Spartan squire to tell the tale...."

I know this is supposed to be good but I'm chicken. I hate it when everyone dies.

I know this is supposed to be good but I'm chicken. I hate it when everyone dies.

Yeah, I get that. I suppose in this one, at least you know what happens going in, so you get to close your heart off a little beforehand..which was my way of approaching it. Still makes you sad though. No matter how prepared you are.

There is one survivor however. The one who has the tale to tell. (that's not a spoiler, that's in the book blurb)

Oh, that makes sense. Never thought about that. However, I did read one where a Roman Legion was charged with holding off the pagans and all the romans died in that one. That stayed with me for days. I was so into the story that the ending really hurt.

But that's reading isn't it? The good books make us feel something. Sometimes that feeling is going to be hurt. :)
At least with this one it isn't the whole book. I will not read books that are just sad all the way through, or filled with misery with a happy ending.

i also NEVER read books about animals or watch animal movies. lol

You mean you've never read one of the greatest books ever written? Watership Down.

Oh yeah. I've read that and seen the movie...we were forced to in primary school. :)

I could handle it then and while it is a beautiful story, I could not read it or see the movie now. It is quite possible that Watership Down is the reason that I cannot handle animal stories because they make me too sad.

I read Gates of Fire: An Epic Novel of the Battle of Thermopylae once, gave it a very positive rating, but although it's been awhile since reading it, I have no desire to reread.

Terri wrote: "Oh yeah. I've read that and seen the movie...we were forced to in primary school. :)

I could handle it then and while it is a beautiful story, I could not read it or see the movie now. It is quit..."

It's one of my favourite books. It's just so beautiful.

Right. Back to Gates of Fire. :)

Now. I am wondering who is in or plans to be in on the read? Hanging out to read people's thoughts!

I'm planning to read it. Maybe about mid month.

Not me. I read it once. That was enough.

LOL

Terri wrote: "Now. I am wondering who is in or plans to be in on the read? Hanging out to read people's thoughts!"

Me! This one is long overdue.

But I can’t find it at any of my libraries. WTH this is a popular, well-known book!!!

Not me either. I couldn't get through it. I did finish but it was hard. I'm just not a fan of his writing style.

How can it be that none of your libraries have this American bestseller, Allie! What the heck? Maybe it keeps getting stolen.

I just found this at my library so I'm going to try to read along this month. Although the pile of library books needing to be read is very, very tall already!

I want to join, but I've filled my october read schedule too much and I won't be able to start before mid month. I'll read in italian.

Allie wrote: "Terri wrote: "Now. I am wondering who is in or plans to be in on the read? Hanging out to read people's thoughts!"

Me! This one is long overdue.

But I can’t find it at any of my libraries. WTH th..."

Wish I still had my copy I would mail it to you. I took it to a used bookstore: which you might try.

I got it as an abridged audio book narrated by Derek Jacobi. He had a lovely voice for reading it. It was one of those books that made me not mind having a long commute each day.

I noticed that the audio book currently available on Amazon is narrated by George Guidall. A solid narrator but not quite a Derek Jacobi's level.

I'm not an audiobook person, but I feel this novel might lend itself well to audio. The way it is told suits it.

Anyone who can't get to it this month, the discussion thread is always open. If you get to it in coming months please feel free to come share your thoughts.

Terri wrote: "How can it be that none of your libraries have this American bestseller, Allie! What the heck? Maybe it keeps getting stolen."

I know!!! But if you saw the selection of YA this library had, it might explain the community’s preferences ***eye roll emoji here***

YouTube has a good selection of audiobooks. I’ll look there. I can’t think of any secondhand bookstores here :(

YA. Don't get me started.

Terri wrote: "YA. Don't get me started."

LOL. Sorry.

I read this book several years ago and was quite impressed. I've decided to reread it now. I read a great deal about Ancient Greece and have some very ambivalent feelings about that period of history which supposedly was the foundation of western civilization. And I am particularly ambivalent about Sparta. I look forward to hearing people's thoughts about this book and the subject of Ancient Greece itself.

I actually read this one several years ago. I was particularly intrigued with the description of the Spartans' training growing up.

I think history is written by small groups of people who did what seemed to others, and perhaps even to themselves at the time, a stupid act of self-sacrifice. But those small groups changed the world; had those three hundred not chosen to face their inevitable death, buying time for an uncertain victory they would never share, the world would have turned out completely different.

Ὦ ξεῖν', ἀγγέλλειν Λακεδαιμονίοις ὅτι τῇδε
κείμεθα, τοῖς κείνων ῥήμασι πειθόμενοι.
Ō xein', angellein Lakedaimoniois hoti tēide
keimetha tois keinōn rhēmasi peithomenoi.

Tell the Spartans, stranger passing by,
that here obedient to their laws we lie.

I would like to go put my hand on that 2400 year old monument, and hope I could live up to their standards.

It was a great personal sacrifice that those Spartans made at Thermopylae, and no small tribute to their rigorous upbringing and traditions. We owe them a debt for that sacrifice.

At the same time, they are also an example of how things can end up if you take that tradition of physical power and use it to enslave your neighbors. Victor Davis Hanson's novel, told of the efforts of Epaminondas to free the rest of the Greeks from Sparta's overbearing rule.

Tell the Spartans, stranger passing by,
that here obedient to their laws we lie.

Composed by Simonides of Keos, the great Lyric, or Epic, poet.

Perhaps someone can help me track down a quote related to the monument at Thermopylae. I read somewhere that another (perhaps much later) Greek suggested that the key to Spartan behavior lay in their law - because their law was the only thing they feared. Does this sound familiar to anyone?

I know the quote you mean. I think it's from Thucydides, the historian, who fought at Marathon.

Margaret- thank you very much! Are you a classical scholar?

No formal qualifications, just a deep love for the Greek classical period. Though the fact I've been reading the area for 40 years I guess counts me as a classicist.

Degrees or no degrees, Margaret 4 decades of reading in the area qualifies you as a classicist in my opinion. I hope you don't mind questions.

Another small group who changed history by their sacrifice: Torpedo Squadron EIGHT attacked the Japanese fleet at Midway, though they arrived without their dive bomber cover, which made coming in low, slow and straight suicidal. They scored no hits, and all but Ens John Gay were killed.

But they pulled the Zeros from their high perch, and they could not climb back up to 20,000 feet in time to intercept the dive bombers on the next wave. The rest is history.

Mara wrote: "Degrees or no degrees, Margaret 4 decades of reading in the area qualifies you as a classicist in my opinion. I hope you don't mind questions."

Of course not. I think I drove two of my teachers insane. One had a First in English from Cambridge; the other had a First in Classics from Oxford. Together they fostered and matured my love of a variety of book related subjects. Greece, and to a lesser extant Rome, from one; Shakespeare, Chaucer, Langland and Arthurian literature from the other.

Besides, if you love something, you should love to share it. And, if you ask a question I can't answer, then my enjoyment of research will get to come out and play. :)

Margaret, were you a librarian at one point? :)

Margaret - you were very lucky to have good teachers. Were they at university or in lower school. I had the American education of the 1960's. We were taught about Alexander the Great but nobody ever mentioned that the Greeks had been writing literature for many centuries. When I got to university I was presented with Homer and was bored baffled and bewildered. Five years ago for some reason I don't recall, I picked up a copy of The Iliad and have never recovered. At age nearly 70 I can't stop reading, both the literature and the scholarship. But sadly I am Greekless. And although I'm taking an online course in Homeric Greek I doubt I will ever be able to read except in Translation. Petrarch, I'm told attempted to learn Greek as an adult and gave up. I am certainly no Petrarch so the task is hopeless for me. Do you read Greek? If not how have you dealt with the stuff that is untranslatable. If you have Greek do you feel that we Greekless can ever fully appreciate the Homeric and classical literature?

Jane wrote: "Margaret, were you a librarian at one point? :)"

Nope. Library Monitor at high school is as close as I got to that career.

Mara wrote: "Margaret - you were very lucky to have good teachers. Were they at university or in lower school. I had the American education of the 1960's. We were taught about Alexander the Great but nobody eve..."

My teachers were at high school level.

I don't have Greek. I have a little ancient Greek (even less than my Latin), but not enough to read untranslated. Hell, not really enough to read a sentence properly. I don't think you need the languages to be honest. If you read enough good translations you can get the feel. The difficult part is finding good translations. It's like saying you cannot appreciate Dumas if you don't read him in the original French.

It's not necessary anyway. We have few, if any, Greek works in ancient Greek. Most survived via Latin translations, or later Arabic translations.

The thing is, we need to stop thinking of it as "classical". The works we have were composed mostly for entertainment purposes. The Illiad and the Odyssey were most likely recited by poets to while away the cold winter evenings. The plays were for entertainment. They were entertainment for the masses... rather like TV today. The philosophical tracts are a different kettle of fish again.

Margaret wrote: "Mara wrote: "Degrees or no degrees, Margaret 4 decades of reading in the area qualifies you as a classicist in my opinion. I hope you don't mind questions."

Of course not. I think I drove two of m..."

You remind me of a quote from Pedro Arupe: Fall in love, stay in love, and it will decide everything.

Eileen wrote: "Margaret wrote: "Mara wrote: "Degrees or no degrees, Margaret 4 decades of reading in the area qualifies you as a classicist in my opinion. I hope you don't mind questions."

Of course not. I think..."

That about sums it up. :)

I am new in the group - I just purchased the kindle version of Gates of Fire. Wish me good luck!

Good luck, Ella. Hope you enjoy it. :)

Good luck Ella! Hope you like it.

And welcome to the group. It is really wonderful that you are new and have already found a book to read through our discussions. Love to see that :)

Thanks!

Ella wrote: "I am new in the group - I just purchased the kindle version of Gates of Fire. Wish me good luck!"

Welcome Ella!

Ella wrote: "I am new in the group - I just purchased the kindle version of Gates of Fire. Wish me good luck!"

Ace wrote: "Ella wrote: "I am new in the group - I just purchased the kindle version of Gates of Fire. Wish me good luck!"

Welcome Ella!" Loved this book! hope you enjoy it as much as we did!!