Space Opera Fans discussion

I've been a Trekkie since TOS, but I'm upset/disappointed with CBS's decision to put Discovery behind a pay wall. A one-hour teaser is uncool. I'm not a rich person and can't afford to buy every streaming service out there. (Already got Amazon Prime and Netflix.) I don't want to pirate my favorite series, but what can I do? Ugh.

That hardcore fanbase is pretty much what CBS is counting on. If some people get left out, they don't care. It doesn't bother me because it's a business and they need to make money in order to make the shows we enjoy.

Discovery was okay but it wasn't good enough to entice me to pay for yet another streaming service, especially as there isn't anything else there that I'm interested in.

I suspect that we will see quite a few people next summer signing up for the free month trial to binge STD and then quitting. That's my plan.

Being in the UK, I've taken a third option.

If I'm being honest, and speaking as someone who's been a sci-fi fan for their whole life - Star Trek, Doctor Who, and Star Wars being the three main touchstones of my childhood - having watched the first two episodes (which I guess comprises the pilot episode) I'm not all that impressed.

I don't like the theme music or title sequence.

Saru reminds me of Kryten from Red Dwarf for some reason.

The prosthetic teeth on the Klingons really need to be dialled down a notch or two, or just discarded entirely. I realise 90% of their dialogue was in the Klingon language with English subtitles, but there were times I really couldn't make out what was being said.

The bridge of the Shenzhou is too dark.

The weird collar on the Starfleet uniforms bugs me, and all the fiddly little details seem deliberately designed to frustrate the efforts of cosplayers who want to make 100% screen accurate costumes.

However, having said all that, I'm going to stick with it for now.

Less PO'd than disappointed. But I'm going off the first couple of eps and most Trek shows take a few episodes to get off the ground. Still, because it's only on pay to play platforms, I don't think it's going to get the viewership it needs to survive.

Melinda Snodgrass, a Trek writer, did an excellent blog which pretty much sums up my reaction accurately.

Melvin wrote: "Less PO'd than disappointed. But I'm going off the first couple of eps and most Trek shows take a few episodes to get off the ground. Still, because it's only on pay to play platforms, I don't thin..."

I'm in your camp Melvin. As a huge Trek fan since 1967 I feel fandom has been, pretty much slapped in the face with this "pay to play platform" (after all wasn't it the fans who kept Trek viable in the early days when NBC lost confidence?)
As an apparent member of a "minority" I really loved "Star Trek: Enterprise" the way it traced the early days of technology within the Federation and look what happened to that series , gone after three seasons! (Not that I'm saying that my enthusiasm and support would have bolstered and "saved" that series....LOL)

Maybe this was just me, but I felt there was a *huge* missed opportunity in Star Trek: Enterprise.

I always thought there should've been more of a friendship between Travis Mayweather and Hoshi Sato, them being the two most junior officers on the ship.

Agree with Robert and Ronnie. It was regrettable that Enterprise didn't really find its footing until the last season. But, I had a lot of misgivings when the writers started the "temporal Cold War." Time travel, to me, means lazy, uninspired writing. I've not seen one series that really pulls it off well.

Ok, well one, it was back in the 80s. It was called Voyagers. But otherwise, TOS Trek did an occasional time travel story, but didn't try to develop an arc around them.

I didn't like the look and feel of Discovery either. Why should the tech of a prior era look more dazzling than the subsequent eras? I liked Enterprise BECAUSE they got the look and feel right.

And another thing about Star Trek: Enterprise - don't ask me where this comes from, I've no idea - to this day, I am *convinced* that Hoshi took a teddy bear with her when she left Earth.

About Discovery though, one thing I might do is to read the novelization since that might be a lot better than the pilot.

I'm not sure that there *is* a novelization of the pilot episode.

There is however, a prequel novel (the name of which escapes me for the moment) written by David Mack.

OK, I stand corrected. That was the one I was referring to and I assumed it would be the novelization of the pilot. My bad.

I don't understand the "paywall" thing. What streaming service is it on in the US? (Here in Norway it's on Netflix btw.)

No problem. Given that "Encounter at Farpoint", "Emissary", "Caretaker" and "Broken Bow" have all been novelized, it was only natural to think that there'd be one for "The Vulcan Hello" and "Battle at the Binary Stars".

I was horribly bored. I complain at length here: https://agoldoffish.wordpress.com/201... - but the short version is that I was never a huge fan of Sonequa Martin-Green; I love Jason Isaacs but he wasn't in the first episode; I loathe Klingons, but even more I love this "new and improved??" version of Klingons; and the whole paywall thing disgusts me. I never planned to subscribe to CBS All Access - I think literally the only thing I would have done it for would have been Discovery. And now that I find I couldn't care less about Discovery - yay! I'm saved $60-$90 a year.

@ Tobias - It's the network CBS's own sort-of-new streaming service. Only the first episode was aired on the network, and for the rest you have to pay:
• Limited Commercials Annual Plan: $59.99/annually with a 1 Week Free Trial
• Commercial Free Annual Plan: $99.99/year with a 2-Day Free Trial

Blech.

I thought Discovery was terrible. A big slap in the face to old Trek fans who actually enjoy the lore that makes up that universe. It's just not Trek to me.

I am willing to pay for streaming service as I got rid of cable. However, already my household has - Netflix, Amazon, Hulu (with HBO), Cruchyroll, DramaFever as well as subs (such as SyFy) through Plex. It's crazy to think I'll buy CBS service for just one show, even has a Star Trek fan.

About the show itself, I couldn't tell where it was supposed to be in the Trek timeline. Like everyone else, I've read that it takes place a decade before TOS in the original timeline, but in "look and feel" it reads like a sequel to the JJ Abrams Trek movies, yet we had a main character who is the human daughter of Sarek, a girl we've never heard mentioned before. Plus, the design of Vulcan looks identical to the ones from JJ Trek. Very confusing.

So to me this feels more like a third universe where Amanda couldn't have kids so she and Sarek adopted a daughter and named her Michael.

Trek has never been good with continuity, but this really feels completely out of place in the overarching scheme of things. Plus, the thing with the Klingons just felt odd. I'm not a hardcore lore guy, but none of the stuff we saw feels like any other depiction of Klingons. In my limited experience it seemed more Romulan to me.

I suspect Paramount gave Bryan Fuller the marching orders of "destroy Axanar" by focusing on the same era that project was focusing on, but the problem is that Axanar feels like a Battlestar Galactica-esque take on classic Trek, while Discovery is neither fish nor fowl.

I think they would have been better off setting STD after Voyager and coming up with a new alien species, or maybe go with one that has heretofore only gotten a partial mention in previous shows.

Trike wrote: "About the show itself, I couldn't tell where it was supposed to be in the Trek timeline. Like everyone else, I've read that it takes place a decade before TOS in the original timeline, but in "look..."

I agree with every word.

Tobias wrote: "I don't understand the "paywall" thing. What streaming service is it on in the US? (Here in Norway it's on Netflix btw.)"

CBS All Access.

It is disappointing to me that (based on the 2 eps I saw) The Orville is more like Star Trek then Discovery is.

Discovery feels like an action movie that happens to set in the Star Trek universe (but to me feels like a major disjoint), split into episodes and extended/dragged out into a mini-series. I hope following episodes get better.

While Orville is more like Star Trek but on a ship whose crew is at the best of times... not the best of any metric. Set in a universe and vision more in line with the Star Trek of yesteryears that somehow with all their screw ups seems to be more in line with Gene's vision then Discovery.

Trike wrote: "I think they would have been better off setting STD after Voyager and coming up with a new alien species, or maybe go with one that has heretofore only gotten a partial mention in previous shows."

YES! I was thinking that. New timeline, new aliens, new "Space. The Final Frontier."

It feels like no one remembers that its supposed to be NEW and FRESH and different. It's all regurgitation of the same old, same old.... but not done as well as it was originally.

In my household there are a couple of people who would have chipped in for CBS All Access so they could watch the live streaming of Big Brother. But, that show finished the same week Star Trek started. Bad timing CBS.

Ronnie wrote: "I'm not sure that there *is* a novelization of the pilot episode.

There is however, a prequel novel (the name of which escapes me for the moment) written by David Mack."

Ack - $12 for that book. Desperate Hours

Tell me about it... Books are getting *really* expensive.

Many Trekkie enjoy JJ Abrams fast pace shoot first style but I want something more cerebral

Ulysese wrote: "Many Trekkie enjoy JJ Abrams fast pace shoot first style but I want something more cerebral"

I agree. I'm becoming a little weary of Abrams' Big Boom Summer Trekkish films.

How do you all feel about the acting in the show? I watched episode one only.

I had no complaints about the acting. It was disjointed for some characters, but that's down to the writing rather than the actors.

Tobias wrote: "I don't understand the "paywall" thing. What streaming service is it on in the US? (Here in Norway it's on Netflix btw.)"

If my memory serves me correctly it is on CBS's own streaming service. In Canada the rights are held by Bell Canada (I think). For the rest of the world Netflix has the rights.

Here in Australia we just received the new star trek series. One episode a week. Now the second week, second episode and I've turned it off. I must be getting old like William Shatner because it did nothing for me.

Trike wrote: "I had no complaints about the acting. It was disjointed for some characters, but that's down to the writing rather than the actors."

Writing and directing. Plenty of shows take a good four episodes to get down their characters, though. I watched the second episode...still not that happy but now that I have seen the trailer for the entire season (it seems), it should get better. It's the many scenes in Klingon and speaking through those huge masks that may get to me more than anything.

I had a thought about why the new Klingons look so different to their movie/TNG era counterparts.

If it's been roughly 100 years since the events of the Augment virus, perhaps the Klingons we're seeing now are an intermediate stage between the TOS Klingons and the bumpy headed Klingons we're more familiar with. The effects of the virus being gradually "bred out" of the Klingon bloodline.

Does that make sense?

Ronnie wrote: "Does that make sense? "

As much as anything else.

I don't know anything about the augment virus, but didn't it occur during the TOS era? I thought that was the explanation for the differences between the TV series and ST: TMP.

Trike wrote: "Ronnie wrote: "Does that make sense? "

As much as anything else.

I don't know anything about the augment virus, but didn't it occur during the TOS era? I thought that was the explanation for the ..."

The Klingon augment virus was a modified form of Levodian flu that threatened to wipe out the Klingon race in the mid-22nd century. It was inadvertently created by Klingon researchers who were attempting to bio-engineer enhanced warriors using DNA from genetically-modified Human embryos left over from Earth's Eugenics Wars.

A cure to restore Klingons to their proper appearance was presumably found some time between 2268 and 2293, as Kang was seen as a smooth-headed Klingon in TOS: "Day of the Dove" and as a normal Klingon in VOY: "Flashback".
The first time normal Klingons were seen on screen was in Star Trek: The Motion Picture set in the early-2270s. In Star Trek: Discovery, set before Star Trek: The Original Series, as well as in the alternate reality also in the 2250s, Klingons are shown with forehead ridges, which means that the virus was either partially cured or not all Klingons were affected.

http://memory-alpha.wikia.com/wiki/Kl...

It's kind of disappointing that, with the internet being so ubiquitous, the chances of there being a third edition of Michael and Denise Okuda's "Star Trek Chronology" are unlikely.

I've still got my battered copy of the second edition.

It only covered 24th century events up to the end of Voyager season 1, and as Star Trek: Enterprise was only in the very early stages of pre-production, it wasn't included at all.

Ohh, this show is just going from bad to worse.

I'm surprised no one's heard me screaming abuse at my TV every time a character does something stupid.

I don't have "TV/Cable" so I don't get to see it. I admit, I probably would sign up CBS in addition to Amazon Prime, Netflix, and Hulu, just to watch a new Star Trek. The things we fans will do. But, a) I don't know how to do so on my smart TV, b) if it required that I be present at a specific day and time each week (like the old era of TV/Cable), it isn't going to happen, and c) I don't like to watch TV shows or movies on my computer. (I bought a 50" TV for a reason.)

I agree with those who posted about Enterprise. I really liked Voyager too. I am one of those rare people who while a huge fan of the original Star Trek, STNG is my least favorite Trek (setting aside the whole new timeline of movies that I dislike but still watched.)

I don't mind the story line at all, so far, but I do find the 'new' Klingon look and sound highly irritating. (Actually, almost nauseating.)

I'm going to keep watching, in the hope that we get less Klingon stuff, and that the series finds its legs.

Lizzie, I run a cheap computer on my tv so I can just watch all my streaming that way. All the ones I have work on on demand so I assume the CBS one is like that.

The Klingon issue IS a big problem for me, too.

Five episodes in, it's showing slight signs of improvement.

The writers are writing to actors strengths, the cast are getting comfortable in their roles.

Two notable firsts for Star Trek this week - firstly, Tilly (and later Stamets) drops the F-bomb. There seem to be a great many people who are upset by this, stating that "Star Trek is a family show".

Personally, it doesn't bother me. I'm an adult, I swear. I regularly get leg cramps in the middle of the night and wake up alternately screaming in agony and swearing the air blue.
You walk past any school at break time, and you'll hear language that'd make a sailor blush.

Secondly - and IMO - more importantly, this is the first time (to the best of my recollection) that we've seen a character brush their teeth. Presumably with a sonic toothbrush.

This show still suffers from science issues. I don't remember that being the case in other Trek shows.

I don't know about the rest of you, but I've been fast forwarding the Klingon stuff because it drives me crazy.

Correction - this is the *second* time a character in Star Trek has been shown to brush their teeth.

Hoshi Sato did it in the Star Trek: Enterprise episode "The Catewalk".

They cared a lot about hygiene on that version of Star Trek. Enterprise, I mean. Well, more contamination, but still. At least that's what I got from the numerous times characters oiled each other up. For important quarantine and other reasons *nods*. Not just to pour oil on each other and rub each other.

That was the scene that made me bail on Enterprise. It was so stupidly gratuitous.

I think I've finally worked out what bothers me the most about the show.

It's all ship-based. Everything's on the Shenzhou, or the Discovery, or the Glenn, or the Klingon torchship, or the Klingon prison ship.

Other than the scenes in episode one with Georgiou and Burnham on the desert planet (which were filmed in Jordan), there haven't been any "strange new worlds".

Maybe they blew the budget on the trip to Jordan and the "special material" for the Starfleet uniforms that came from Switzerland?

That's true! They haven't landed on any planets yet.

CBS has ordered a second season. Looks like initial views have been favorable, with 53,000+ in the past week. Apparently CBS All Access had some issues last night due to demand.

I noticed that although STD was #1, no other CBS shows were in the top 25, whereas Netflx dominated the list.

I don't understand, yesterday I finally seen the first 6 shows and it's not as bad as people say it is, I actually enjoyed it and I've seen it on Netflix so I didn't have to pay for any extra streaming service.
For a TV Show it's not bad at all!!!

It's only the beginning we still have no idea where it's going to so only time will tell.

I tend to give shows six episodes to get it together. :) So I'm still hanging in there...

Dark Matter took basically the whole first season!