Terminalcoffee discussion

I am so glad to see some of these predators being brought to heel, although "to heel" has to be modified since severance payments like Bill O'Reilly's for $25 million hardly seem right given the circumstances. But at least the public humiliation has to be painful. And now O'Reilly is blaming God for the $32 million payout he made to one of his accusers. Huh? God forced him to write a $32 million check? And every time he talks about how he never did anything wrong, he brings his kids into it - anyone who accuses him of harassment is only hurting his kids, since his kids then have to hear about it. You hope his kids aren't going to be completely fucked up and fucked over being dragged into this...plus having him for a father....you wonder what his wife was thinking, reproducing with this guy. Same with Harvey Weinstein's wife.

Now President George H.W. Bush has been accused by at least two women of groping their asses, from his wheelchair. Because when you're sitting down, your arm can't get that high on their bodies, so you're almost forced to touch their butts. His wife, Barbara Bush, knows all about her husband's grab-ass and even makes jokes about how he's going to end up in jail. Ha ha! Jail! Hahaha!

And five women have accused Mark Halperin of preying or groping or harassment. One woman said he groped her breasts. Three colleagues said he pressed his erection up against them. "During this period, I did pursue relationships with women that I worked with, including some junior to me," Halperin said in a statement to CNN Wednesday night. "I now understand from these accounts that my behavior was inappropriate and caused others pain. For that, I am deeply sorry and I apologize." He NOW understands that pressing his hard dick against an unconsenting woman was inappropriate....but how was he supposed to know that, THEN? Honestly, give the man a break. There was no earthly way he could have known ten years ago that pressing his erect dick against an unconsenting woman would be wrong or unwelcome! Halperin has been let go from MSNBC and HBO is now declining to produce his TV show.

Leon Wieseltier (for many years the literary editor of The New Republic) was accused of harassment by multiple women going back many years. At least he didn't pretend he didn't know it was wrong at the time, and has apologized. His brand new magazine, which was going to be funded by Steve Jobs' widow, has now collapsed as she has withdrawn funding in disgust. Good for her. He has been fired from his job at the Brookings Institution, a think tank. Good for them.

So when is Trump's day of reckoning going to come? Many outstanding harassment and groping claims against him too.

When is Cosby's day of reckoning going to come? If ever there was a dude that should be in prison for life it's the great Bill Cosby.

All these people should be put in stocks in the public square for a minimum of five years so everyone can throw tomatoes at them, or grope their bodies.

President Bush apologized on Wednesday.

“At age 93, President Bush has been confined to a wheelchair for roughly five years, so his arm falls on the lower waist of people with whom he takes pictures,” the statement said.

“To try to put people at ease, the president routinely tells the same joke — and on occasion, he has patted women’s rears in what he intended to be a good-natured manner. Some have seen it as innocent; others clearly view it as inappropriate. To anyone he has offended, President Bush apologizes most sincerely.”

Uh, okay. Better than nothing certainly. But it's hard to imagine that any female above the age of 6 would enjoy a pat on the ass from a strange man, a 93 year old man, or any man, and hard to imagine anyone over the age of 15 or so would see it as "innocent" or "good-natured." Nor does it matter if it was intended as "good-natured." Women don't care that you intended it in a "good-natured" way. All they care about is the way it makes them feel, and 99.9% of the time the way it makes them feel is violated.

If you're in a wheelchair, just don't bother putting your arm around someone. They will forgive you for not putting their arm around them. Really.

And Kevin Spacey allegedly assaulted a 14 year old boy several decades ago. He said he was drunk and didn't remember it and apologized to the victim, then chose to come out as gay.

I wonder if there are more victims....

And the rape allegations against Harvey Weinstein now go back to the 1970s. Prosecutors are investigating to see if there's anything still within the statute of limitations they can charge him with...

"Hamilton Fish of The New Republic Goes on Leave After Women’s Complaints"

Mark Halperin has been fired from NBC News and MSNBC, and Penguin Press has canceled his new book.

On Friday, Mr. Halperin posted a statement of apology on Twitter.

“I am profoundly sorry for the pain and anguish I have caused by my past actions. I apologize sincerely to the women I mistreated,” he wrote.

“Some of the allegations that have been made against me are not true,” he added, without specifying which ones. “But I realize that is a small point in the scheme of things. Again, I bear responsibility for my outrageous conduct at ABC News.”

Now Pervy Harvey is out to save the World. He's going to change it by being a martyr over his 'alleged' activities.

I don't know where to go with this other than this is the picture next to the word deranged in the dictionary. . .

"Michael Oreskes, NPR’s Top News Editor, Quits Amid Sexual Harassment Accusations"

At least three women. To his credit, Oreskes gave a good apology: “I am deeply sorry to the people I hurt. My behavior was wrong and inexcusable, and I accept full responsibility.”

"Brett Ratner accused of sexual harassment by Olivia Munn, 5 others"

Actually the headline is very misleading. Some of the accusations involve sexual assault, not harassment.

"Other women spoke to The Los Angeles Times and said they were sexually harassed by Ratner. Actresses Jamie Ray Newman, Katharine Towne, Jorina King, Natasha Henstridge and model Eri Sasaki all spoke to the newspaper about Ratner.

Henstridge, 43, accused Ratner of forcing her to give him oral sex when she was 19 years old."

"Munn also complained about onset behavior, alleging that while visiting the set of Ratner’s “After the Sunset” in 2004, he masturbated in front of her in his trailer."

"Oscar-winner Dustin Hoffman came forward to apologize for allegedly sexually harassing a 17-year-old intern in 1985.

Writer Anna Graham Hunter alleged in a Wednesday column in The Hollywood Reporter that the now 80-year-old actor groped her on the set of TV movie “Death of a Salesman” and “talked about sex to me and in front of me.”

Hoffman issued a statement Wednesday, apologizing for “anything I might have done could have put her in an uncomfortable situation. I am sorry. It is not reflective of who I am.”

It sounds great to say, "I accept full responsibility." That's why they say it. They also say, "I'm sorry" and that's "not reflective of who I am." That last one especially galls me. Bullshit. What you do and say tells us who you are.

"When I was a senior in high school in New York City, interning as a production assistant on the set of the Death of a Salesman TV film, [Dustin Hoffman] asked me to give him a foot massage my first day on set; I did. He was openly flirtatious, he grabbed my ass, he talked about sex to me and in front of me. One morning I went to his dressing room to take his breakfast order; he looked at me and grinned, taking his time. Then he said, "I'll have a hard-boiled egg … and a soft-boiled clitoris." His entourage burst out laughing. I left, speechless. Then I went to the bathroom and cried."

Anna Graham Hunter

Another 14 year old boy and Kevin Spacey - they were in a relationship in the 80s until Spacey tried to rape him.

http://www.vulture.com/2017/11/kevin-...

"House of Cards Employees Accuse Kevin Spacey of Sexual Harassment and Assault

That PA describes the actor’s behavior as a “predatory,” and said the assault he suffered took place after he was tasked with driving Spacey to the set in Baltimore. While in the driver’s seat, the show’s star and executive producer allegedly put his hand down the assistant’s pants without permission. “I was in a state of shock,” he told CNN. “He was a man in a very powerful position on the show and I was someone very low on the totem pole and on the food chain there.” "

"Kevin Spacey Has Been Dropped By His Publicist And Agency"

"Actress Paz De La Huerta Says Harvey Weinstein Raped Her Twice" in 2010.

"...according to Vanity Fair, de la Huerta has been in communication with the New York Police Department, and detective Nicholas DiGaudio told the publication, “I believe based on my interviews with Paz that from the N.Y.P.D. standpoint we have enough to make an arrest.” "

Louis C.K. has a problem....making women watch him masturbate. Inviting women to watch him. Masturbating while on the phone with them. Etc. (The women so far seem to number five.)

https://www.nytimes.com/2017/11/09/ar...

A comment from a reader of the NYT article, where many commenters were defending his behavior:

"A clarification for people who'd like to believe that because he didn't touch these women, Louis C.K. didn't commit acts of sexual predation:

Using another person's shock and disbelief, their discomfort, their loss of power and most of all, their fear as the fuel for stoking your sexual urges is the very definition of it. This man in particular, has traded on the notion (to his own significant gain by the way), that he's aware, that he's "woke" when it comes to this very type of behavior while simultaneously being guilty of it and practicing it. These acts were premeditated."

Roy Moore, Republican Senate candidate for Alabama, former judge who insisted the Ten Commandments be in all his courtrooms, twice removed from the Alabama Supreme Court, once for directing judges to continue to enforce the ban on same sex marriage even after such marriages had been declared legal by the Supreme Court, another time for refusing to remove the granite Ten Commandments the Court of Appeals had required him to remove because it violated the Establishment Clause.

Moore is now accused of sexually touching (I guess that would be assault) a 14 year old girl in 1979.

"In November 2017 The Washington Post outlined an account of a woman alleging that Moore, 32 at the time, attempted to engage in sexual interactions with her in 1979, when she was 14. Moore released a statement strongly denouncing the allegations, calling them "completely false" and "a desperate political attack by the National Democratic Party [sic] and the Washington Post" on his campaign. Three other women came forward to say Roy Moore, in his 30s, pursued relationships with them when they were teenagers, of which three of the women were of the legal age of consent at the time." (Wikipedia)

Two women are accusing Ed Westwick (Chuck Bass on "Gossip Girl") of rape. He denies both accusations. One woman says he raped her three years ago; L.A. police are investigating. Another woman also says he raped her three years ago.

'L.A. Writer Says Richard Dreyfuss Sexually Harassed and Exposed Himself to Her in the 1980s'

They were working together on a film project; she was much younger, he was married with one kid. She says he sexually harassed her for years and exposed himself to her, expecting oral sex. She fled. He replied in a statement saying that for a period of time had had been an "asshole" and flirted with many women. He denies exposing himself.

Weirdly, Dreyfuss's son has accused Kevin Spacey of groping his crotch when the son was 18 (and his father was in the room but didn't see it).

"George Takei “Shocked & Bewildered” At Sexual Assault Claims Made Against Him

Star Trek icon George Takei has respond to an accusation of sexual assault made against him by a former model and actor who alleged an incident at Takei’s home in 1981. In a series of tweets this morning, Takei writes that the events “simply did not occur.” He adds that he does not remember Scott R. Brunton, who made the allegations in a THR interview which ran on Friday. “I am as shocked and bewildered at these claims as you must feel reading them,” Takei continues to his 2.79M followers."

Jeremy Piven Accused Of Forcibly Ejaculating On Woman & Exposing His Penis To Another

"...bringing the number of women accusing him of lewd behavior to five."

He denies all of the accusations.

So far, it does seem to be working out that the men either confess or that there is substantial circumstantial evidence to support claims by their accusers. But in this climate, there will be people who make false claims, and they will be believed, and reputations will be ruined, even if no evidence is forthcoming. Accusations aren't facts. I can see this devolving into - I hate to say it - a witch hunt.

Al Franken was accused by a woman he was co-hosting USO events with of forcibly kissing her in a skit rehearsal and groping (or being photographed in a pre-groping stance) her breasts. He has apologized and she's accepted his apology. He says he remembers the rehearsal kiss differently (I'm giving her the big benefit of the doubt since she was the recipient...).

An instance of Roy Moore allegedly sexually assaulting/groping a woman has emerged when he was married (all the others to this point were non-adulterous). A woman who went to his law office in a child custody case in 1991 when she was 28 says he grabbed her ass. (Moore married his wife Kayla in 1985.) Two more women say Moore aggressively pursued them when they were teens working at the mall; one says she was forcibly kissed by Moore. More women have said that Moore asked them out on dates when he was in his 30s and they were teens still in high school.

Meantime, Moore's wife Kayla posted a letter on Facebook from a bunch of Christian pastors who voiced support for Moore. Problem is, the letter was signed by the pastors last August, before the sex allegations against him. Several of the pastors have complained and asked for their names to be removed. One pastor said he had not been contacted either in August or now and his name was used without his consent.

Tina Johnson, the 28 year old woman whose butt was groped, said her mother was present for the meeting (Moore was the lawyer her mother had retained to take custody of Tina's 12 year old child). There was constant flirtation by Moore, who told Tina she had beautiful eyes, asked if she had children, how old they were, when she said she had two daughters, he wanted to know if their eyes were as beautiful as hers. He was sitting on the edge of the desk and his knee was touching her knee. After the meeting, her mother didn't think Moore had done anything wrong, in fact she was pleased Moore had flirted so much, thinking he was looking for a wife. (He was already married.)

Johnson said she was scarred for life. She felt utterly humiliated by the grope. She thought maybe the dress she was wearing, which was long (down to her knees), had provoked him. The dress was black and white. She said she was so scarred by the event that she never wore the dress again.

Lobstergirl wrote: "Al Franken was accused by a woman he was co-hosting USO events with of forcibly kissing her in a skit rehearsal and groping (or being photographed in a pre-groping stance) her breasts. He has apolo..."

The biggest problem for Franken is that photos, recorded interviews, and his own writing repeatedly demonstrate his behavior. His is not a he said/she said type of accusation.

The interviews with Leeann Tweeden (the woman in the photos) are the classic example of victim blaming having prevented her from having come forward before now.

Al's gotta go.

I don't think he has to go. It's up to his constituents whether they want him or not. What he did was bad, but there's only one victim, and what he did didn't rise to the level of every other harasser who has been brought to light in the last couple months. If more victims come forward, obviously things would change. There's a difference between bad and heinous.

And by the way, all sorts of commentators, pundits, TV presenters, headline writers etc. are mischaracterizing the Roy Moore allegations. No, eight women did NOT claim Roy Moore groped them (at least, not yet). The women claiming he groped or sexually assaulted them are a smaller subset of all the women who have come forward to speak to the media. Some of those women are only saying Moore tried to date them when they were in high school, or did date them until they found it creepy and broke it off. Obviously there is a big difference between Roy Moore asking out a teenage girl, and Roy Moore forcibly kissing a teenage girl or forcing her hand onto his erection over his underwear or groping a woman's butt.

I hate these kinds of inaccuracies. This is how untruths spread far and wide and get written into the historical record and become "common knowledge" rather than the untruths they actually are.

Lobstergirl wrote: "I don't think he has to go. It's up to his constituents whether they want him or not. What he did was bad, but there's only one victim, and what he did didn't rise to the level of every other haras..."

Of course Franken has to go. It's SenatorFranken. That's one problem by itself in reference to the evidence. It doesn't matter that he wasn't an elected official or as some partisan apologist have tried to claim "he was just a comedian." He knew this when he ran for office.

It isn't just one victim. It is the continuing documented behavior that while perhaps OK at the time, wasn't and isn't now at all. There are long interviews both written and recorded since not long after he was at University. Scripts and 'routines' that he wrote that are disturbing in the context of why they were produced. He didn't learn on a single USO trip to behave the way he did. There's over twenty years of evidence prior to that time of his thought processes and what he considered to be entertainment.

At this point the voters/constituents are not the issue. It is the behavior of the other members of the US Senate who can expel him if they so desire. This is a representative government and do they want Al Franken to be a part of what is considered representative?

Al has to go and preferably if he is does realize the seriousness he will resign.

We must keep in mind that anyone can be accused of anything. You can be accused of anything without proof, yet it can ruin your reputation. This isn't over yet, and people are going to take advantage of this atmosphere in which accusations are being treated as fact. If a man confesses, OK. If he denies the accusations, he's innocent until proven guilty.

Scout wrote: "If a man confesses, OK. If he denies the accusations, he's innocent until proven guilty."

That's the standard in a court of law. Outside of a court of law, in these cases where the statute of limitations has expired (in criminal cases) or it makes no sense to bring a civil case, "innocent until proven guilty" does not apply.

Does anyone really believe that because Roy Moore is denying each of these sexual assault and misconduct accusations, that he didn't do them? Ok, I don't mean Alabama evangelicals - I think they really do believe it. But outside of those folks, sensible people just don't believe Moore didn't do this shit. Roy Moore will not be tried in a court of law for any of this stuff because it happened way too long ago. Therefore we are not required to believe him innocent. We're allowed to look at the evidence for ourselves (and yes, accusations by the women are evidence, just as they would be in a court of law) and come to our own conclusions. Roy Moore is guilty as hell just as Bill Cosby is guilty as hell. The fact that they deny every bit of it doesn't make them any more innocent than Al Franken because he did admit to sexual misconduct.

Ugh, Charlie Rose was revealed to be a sexual predator when I was offline last week. Disgusting. At a minimum, eight women who worked for him over the past two decades accused him of various things including: touching them in the workplace; showing up in a bathrobe which he then allowed to fall open to reveal his genitals, as they worked for him at one of his several homes; making sexual advances which were unwelcome, making sexual phone calls, and more. Most of these women were quite young, in their 20s, at the time, desperately trying to get a toehold in the media business and desperate for a job and references.

Re Franken, he should probably resign. When I posted earlier, only one woman had come forward. Now there are four, the other three claim he groped their butts during picture takings. There is zero excuse for that, it's disgusting. If it were just the one woman, I'd be more likely to say leave it to the voters of Minnesota. But there should be zero gropers in Congress. And we all know there are more....

Lobstergirl wrote: "Re Franken, he should probably resign. When I posted earlier, only one woman had come forward. Now there are four, the other three claim he groped their butts during picture takings. There is zero ..."

I'm also for no groupers in Congress. They just require a skillet, butter, garlic, and perhaps some oregano.

Oh, for heaven's sake. Somebody groped your butt in a public setting, and you're scarred for life? The guy should lose his career over this? It's getting ridiculous.

Charlie Rose has lost everything. He can't defend himself or explain the circumstances. He's been found guilty of every accusation, true or not.

Clinton did far worse, and he has to be feeling pretty lucky that he's not being impeached today. If these guys are losing everything, then he should, too.

And that's the thing. Can you fairly judge a person's behavior 20, 30 years ago by today's standards? Social mores were different then.

This is obviously a lot more than groping.

With Matt Lauer gone, Garrison Keillor gone, John Conyers and maybe Joe Scarborough about to be gone this isn't just a case of outlier behavior.

It also is beginning to look like more than just an accounting that is long overdue. It is taking on a political overtone that is very ugly in the perspective of history.

A question posed to me today was "Will there be any women who get swept up in this"? Or really are there women who need to answer for their participation in allowing this to continue? Or even are their women who have harassed? (May other women and not just the opposite gender)

What are you talking about with Joe Scarborough? I don't think he's been accused of sexual misconduct.

Lobstergirl wrote: "What are you talking about with Joe Scarborough? I don't think he's been accused of sexual misconduct."

No, Joe hasn't been 'accused' he's admitted openly to cheating on his wife, having the President (take that for what it's worth) accuse of him being involved with the death on an intern, and that intern at the time of her death had rumours swirling around her. It resulted in Joe leaving Congress by resignation before the end of his term. Whether Joe is one of the gropers (we needed a better term) he's caught in the rip tide of current events.

Um, no. I'm no fan of Joe Scarborough but the death was fully investigated and any rumors still "swirling" are due to ignorance, lack of knowledge. Also he didn't leave Congress due to her death. He had announced he was leaving before she died. From today's Washington Post:

"[Trump tweeted] “And will they terminate low ratings Joe Scarborough based on the ‘unsolved mystery’ that took place in Florida years ago? Investigate!”

The president appeared to be referring to the 2001 death of Lori Klausutis, a 28-year-old aide who worked for Scarborough at the time, when he represented Florida’s 1st congressional district.

But Klausutis’s death is not an unsolved mystery: Authorities determined 16 years ago that she died after losing consciousness from an abnormal heart rhythm and collapsed, striking her head. She was discovered in Scarborough’s office in Fort Walton Beach, lying on her back with her head near a desk, according to a 2001 police report.

The circumstances of Klausutis’s death on July 20, 2001, have prompted conspiracy theories — some of which appear to persist. But no foul play was suspected, and her death was ultimately ruled an accident by the medical examiner.

(snip)

From 1994 through 2001, Scarborough served as a Republican congressman.

Klausutis worked on his staff the last two years he was in office, according to the Tampa Bay Times; before her death, Scarborough had announced that he was leaving Congress.

The day before Klausutis was found dead in Scarborough’s Florida office, she had told a colleague she was not feeling well, according to a 2001 police report cited by the St. Petersburg Times, now known as the Tampa Bay Times.

As the newspaper reported in August 2001:

Medical Examiner Dr. Michael Berkland has said Klausutis, 28, of Niceville, lost consciousness because of an abnormal heart rhythm and fell, hitting her head on a desk. The head injury caused the death, Berkland said.

The report, which was released Monday, quotes friends and relatives as saying Klausutis was happily married and was known as “Little Miss Mary Sunshine.”

They said she was under moderate stress in the days before she died. She had two assignments due for college courses. She and her husband had recently moved into a new house, and she was looking for a new job because Scarborough recently resigned from Congress, effective in September.

Relatives told police she was upbeat about a job possibility at a local radio station and had recently received a $6,000 raise.

Relatives said she had been taking medication for acne and that she suffered a head injury in a traffic accident when she was a teenager that left her in a coma. When she recovered, she had signs of short-term memory loss.

A mail carrier who came in the office on July 19 said she appeared nervous. He said Klausutis told him she did not feel well.

Less than three weeks later, on Aug. 6, 2001, a Fort Walton Beach Police report noted that the medical examiner had determined Klausutis died as a result of an acute subdural hematoma, or blood clot.

The report cited a letter from the medical examiner, stating that the injury was the result of trauma from a fall as she lost consciousness from “a probable cardiac arrhythmia secondary to valvular heart disease.”

The manner of death was ruled “accidental,” and police concluded that there was no reason to further investigate."



This thread is about gropers, sexual harassers, molesters, who are being uncovered in the past weeks. This thread is not about consensual extramarital affairs. Therefore we don't care here in this thread whether Scarborough cheated on his wife.

Russell Simmons steps down from his companies after two allegations of sexual misconduct/assault from the 90s. The first woman, who was a 17 year old model, said he forced her (or intimidated her) into performing oral sex on him as Brett Ratner watched. Ratner has himself been accused by multiple women of misconduct or assault.

The second woman is Jenny Lumet, director and daughter of Sidney.

He says he remembers both accounts differently from how the women remember them....

Guys are being accused of things that happened years ago, and they're losing their source of income, even though the accusers have no proof. Why not Clinton, then, who was PROVED to have used his position of power to get sex? Who was never held accountable for his actions and who ruined the life of a young girl. Why shouldn't he lose his source of income?

Every "guy" who has been fired for sexual misconduct in the last couple months is a multi millionaire who has more than enough money, much, much, much more, to last for the rest of his life without ever having to work again. Don't waste your time worrying about their loss of income. Trust me, they have more passive income coming in from investments than they will ever need to live on.

Clinton was held accountable, perhaps you were in a coma during the late 90s when he was impeached and lost his law license for a time? That's what being held accountable was.

"Ruined the life of a young girl"? His relationship with Monica Lewinsky was consensual, in fact it was started by her. She has always maintained it was consensual and she wanted the relationship. She has never claimed, as far as I know, that it ruined her life. She was a willing participant. To clarify, she was not a girl when it happened, she was a young woman (aged 22-24 during the affair).

Clinton was not held accountable as these men are. They're losing their careers, reputation, and future income. Clinton should be barred from speaking engagements and lose all political cachet.

I think you previously said about Charlie Rose that the women were young and dependent on him for career opportunities, as was Monica. Are you saying that it was okay for Clinton, a man with so much power, a married man, to do what he did? To lie about it to the country? Are you saying that she didn't suffer because of it?

Clinton should be barred from speaking engagements? By whom? What body or organization would bar him? He's a free agent. Any organization that wants to pay him to speak is a free agent, they can arrange a contract to their mutual satisfaction. If any organization wants to shame him by refusing to hire him to speak, they're free to do so. It's not like he needs a speakers' bureau to represent him. He can get the gigs on his own.

Many would argue that Clinton DID lose his reputation as a result of the sexual misconduct allegations.

Again, the relationship with Monica Lewinsky was consensual. It was initiated by her. This is not what sexual misconduct is. This was a consensual affair. She was not dependent on him for employment opportunities. And in fact, Clinton had Vernon Jordan get a job for her once her White House job ended; the problem was that the scandal broke before the new job started.

Let's state what is really happening: some of these men have been fired from their jobs. In no way does this mean they will never earn income again or hold another job again. If you are fired from a job, do you automatically assume you will never again have a job?

Some of these men, particularly in the tech sector, already have new jobs and sources of income.

No one is forbidding any of these men to attempt to get jobs at companies other than the one that fired them. Matt Lauer is free to try to get any other job he wants. Harvey Weinstein is free to try to get any other job he wants. Or start another production company if he wants to. Anyone is free to do anything of an entrepreneurial nature, to start their own business, etc. Not a single one of the men fired thus far NEEDS additional money or additional income. They all have multimillions to live on, unlike their victims who in many cases had their dreams of being in X industry (acting, journalism, television, tech sector, etc.) crushed because they were so disillustioned by how these men treated them.

Your sympathy is misplaced.

What did Clinton lose, exactly? The Presidency? Nope. His good standing with the Democratic Party? Nope. His ability to make hundreds of thousands for speaking engagements? Nope. His marriage? Nope. And what court should condemn him and take away his good reputation and his ability to earn? Why, the court of public opinion, which is condemning men who did far less than he did. Which, by the way, was using his power over a subordinate to procure sexual favors. Do you just not want to see how wrong this was?

James Levine, the conductor of the Metropolitan Opera and its former director, has been suspended "after three men came forward with accusations that Mr. Levine sexually abused them decades ago, when the men were teenagers."

One teen was 17 when he says the then 25 year old Levine masturbated him, and made him reciprocate, at a summer chamber music festival.

"At their next meeting, Mr. Brown said, he told Mr. Levine that he would not repeat the sexual behavior, and asked if they could continue to make music as they had before.

“And he answered no,” Mr. Brown said, adding that Mr. Levine hardly looked at him for the rest of the summer, even while conducting him."

Another 17 year old teen said Levine convinced him to let him masturbate him.

"At one point in Cleveland, where he moved in 1969 to study at the Cleveland Institute of Music, he said that Mr. Levine encouraged the members of the group to put on blindfolds and masturbate partners they could not see. They did, Mr. Lestock said.

“This was the extent to which he had control,” Mr. Lestock said. Another member of the group, who spoke on the condition of anonymity to guard his privacy, said that he had also taken part in a blindfolded masturbation session."

"But Mr. Lestock said he felt powerless to leave. “If I had left the group at the point, I would have had no career, no income, no friends, and have been totally alone in the world,” he said. After following Mr. Levine to New York in the early 1970s, Mr. Lestock, who is now 67, eventually left the group, and music."

Another man says Levine began to sexually abuse him when he was 16 (he had been introduced to Levine when he was four). "“I was vulnerable,” said Mr. Pai, who is 48. “I was under this man’s sway, I saw him as a safe, protective person, he took advantage of me, he abused me and it has really messed me up.”

Rumors about Levine and underage boys had been swirling for decades. I heard about them from reading classical music blogs, although I never heard the details, just that Levine was known for, or suspected of, being attracted to and being involved with teenage boys. He would always deny it, except for the times when he would refuse to comment.

I guess this is what you're talking about regarding Monica Lewinsky:

“Sure, my boss took advantage of me, but I will always remain firm on this point: it was a consensual relationship. Any ‘abuse’ came in the aftermath, when I was made a scapegoat in order to protect his powerful position,” she wrote in Vanity Fair in 2014. Lewinsky said that she remained troubled that feminists did not speak up for her. “I sorely wished for some sign of understanding from the feminist camp. Some good, old-fashioned, girl-on-girl support was much in need. None came. Given the issues at play – gender politics, sex in the workplace – you’d think they would have spoken up. They didn’t. I understood their dilemma: Bill Clinton had been a president ‘friendly’ to women’s causes,” she wrote.

She says her boss took advantage of her. She knows that what he did was wrong, but she defends him because of her feelings for him. What were his feelings for her? "I did not have sexual relations with that woman, Miss Lewinsky." She says that's where the abuse came in, and she got no support. He should suffer for that. Judged by today's standards, he should lose everything for what he did to her.

Now go ahead and post some new atrocity while ignoring this one. I'm done.

Roy Moore is lying.

Shortly after the allegations first surfaced, Moore said in a radio interview with Sean Hannity that he did not know Corfman, but that he remembered Gibson as well as Gloria Thacker Deason, who had told The Post that she dated Moore when she was 18. He called each one “a good girl,” and said that he did not remember dating them.

But at two campaign events in recent days, Moore has backtracked.

At a Nov. 27 campaign event in the north Alabama town of Henagar, Moore said, “The allegations are completely false. They are malicious. Specifically, I do not know any of these women.”

Debbie Wesson Gibson was angry to hear Moore now lying, saying he had never known her. She found an old scrapbook from high school. In it was a handwritten congratulations card from Moore on her high school graduation. The scrapbook also contained notes she wrote after several dates with Moore (at the time, she was 17, he was 34; she didn't see anything wrong with dating him despite their age difference).

“He called me a liar,” said Gibson, who says she not only openly dated Moore when she was 17 but later joined him in passing out fliers during his campaign for circuit court judge in 1982 and exchanged Christmas cards with him over the years. “Roy Moore made an egregious mistake to attack that one thing — my integrity.”

Gibson says her invited guests to her HS graduation were her parents, and Roy Moore. Moore gave her a $10 check for graduation and she sent him a thank you note.

She said that when she became engaged, Moore insisted on meeting her fiance to make sure he was “good enough for me.” She said when Moore was first appointed as a circuit court judge in 1992, she sent him a gavel engraved with his name and a congratulatory note, and that her family and his exchanged Christmas cards some years.

https://www.washingtonpost.com/politi...

Franken will be resigning in the near future.

James Levine, meanwhile, denies the accusations but in a strangely worded way. He calls them "unfounded" which is a strange, waffling word. It means unproven. If the accusations are utterly false, why not use the words "utterly false"?

“As understandably troubling as the accusations noted in recent press accounts are, they are unfounded,” he said in a written statement. “As anyone who truly knows me will attest, I have not lived my life as an oppressor or an aggressor.”