Reading the 20th Century discussion

I've never actually read any E.M. Forster however the news of a new BBC adaptation of Howards End prompted me to set up this thread.


The series starts on BBC One on 12 November 2017 at 9 pm....

Spring 1907 in England. Margaret Schlegel is at home with her overbearing Aunt Juley and her hypochondriac brother Tibby when she receives a letter from her younger sister Helen, who is visiting the Wilcox family at their country house, Howards End.

On hearing that Helen has fallen for the youngest Wilcox son, Paul, Aunt Juley is swiftly dispatched to Howards End to represent the Schlegel family - slightly prematurely as the engagement does not come to pass.

Leaving the social awkwardness of the Wilcox encounter behind them, the Schlegels attend a concert in London with visiting German relatives. During the performance Helen strikes up conversation with Leonard Bast, a struggling young bank clerk, and accidentally leaves the concert with his umbrella. On discovering the mix-up Margaret gives her card to Bast and implores him to stay for tea with them at their Wickham Place home, but he quickly becomes uncomfortable in their company and leaves.

In a twist of fate the Wilcoxes move up to London and end up renting the apartment across the street from the Schlegels, and Margaret strikes up a friendship with enigmatic but ailing Mrs. Wilcox.

Any E.M. Forster fans in the group?

Any E.M. Forster recommendations?

Novels
Where Angels Fear to Tread (1905)
The Longest Journey (1907)
A Room with a View (1908)
Howards End (1910)
A Passage to India (1924)
Maurice (written in 1913–14, published posthumously in 1971)

From Wikipedia....

Edward Morgan Forster OM CH (1 January 1879 – 7 June 1970), known as E.M. Forster, was an English novelist, short story writer, essayist and librettist. Many of his novels examined class difference and hypocrisy in early 20th-century British society, notably A Room with a View (1908), Howards End (1910), and A Passage to India (1924), which brought him his greatest success. He was nominated for the Nobel Prize in Literature in 16 different years.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/E._M._F...

The only one I have read is A Passage to India, which I was inspired to read by Damon Galgut's novel Arctic Summer, which was a semi-fictional account of its creation.

I did Howards End for A level - an interesting book rather than one I loved.

I've also read Passage to India but it feels unsubtle and clunky in comparison with later books like The Jewel in the Crown.

I really enjoyed Howards End. I found it particularly interested as it was written in 1910 about a German family living in Britain. I also enjoyed A Room with a View and A Passage to India (though this one is my least favourite of the ones I have read). I have Where Angels Fear to Tread on my kindle too.

Roman Clodia wrote: "I did Howards End for A level - an interesting book rather than one I loved.

I've also read Passage to India but it feels unsubtle and clunky in comparison with later books like [book:The Jewel i..."

In what sense? Scott's tetralogy has a smoother writing style? Just curious... :)

Each book is inevitably shaped by the historical moment in which it was written: Forster in the 1920s, Scott in the postcolonial 1960s. Each treats of racial inequalities and rape (or is it in Forster?) but Passage struck me as trying to reconcile two opposites, like the 'only connect' epigraph of Howards End, while Scott is analytical about the systematic and institutionalised politics of race, class and gender that constitute the colonial space.

Both definitely worth reading but reflecting different ages, value systems and ways of thinking about colonial India.

Well stated Roman. You are making some great points and Scott's novels make more sense in relationship to Forster's. I have seen Scott's quartet floating around for years but hadn't paid much attention to it. Now it seems quite alluring thanks to you! However, it is quite a Proustian journey at 1,600 pages or so....

Thanks from me too Roman Clodia. Fascinating.

I have loved the Forster books I've read, especially Howards End - the Merchant-Ivory film of that is also wonderful, like their other films of his books, so the new series will really have a challenge to match it.

Just remembered that A Room with a View is the Forster title I've read most recently and I thought it was excellent, great characters and a lot of commentary about social class and gender.

It's years since I read A Passage to India but I was also impressed by it as I recall - must revisit in the light of your comments, Roman Clodia.

I also loved Jewel in the Crown and, again, the great TV adaptation, but I thought it was a shame that the story moves away from the most interesting characters rather quickly - but I can't really say more to avoid spoilers.

Scott's quartet (I've never read the fifth book which, I think, came later) is written as layers rather than as a sequence so you can read the first one without committing to all of them and the story is self-contained. Layers add depth, of course... I recently re-read the first book, my review here if you're interested: www.goodreads.com/review/show/2002531588

And on Proustian lengths, I'm currently reading the 1500+ pages of Clarissa, or, the History of a Young Lady!

Judy, I've never seen the film of Howards End so will certainly give the new series a try.

Passage to India is absolutely amazing. I have Howard’s End which I’m looking forward to reading.

If you haven't read Arctic Summer it is well worth reading...

Hugh wrote: "If you haven't read Arctic Summer it is well worth reading..."

https://www.theguardian.com/books/201...

Sounds v interesting

Thanks

“I think that every reader on earth has a list of cherished books as unique as their fingerprints." - Douglas Coupland.

For me “A Room with a View” is one of those books.

I find it almost impossible to articulate what it is about this particular novel that resonates so deeply with me. It is a love story with laughter and tears and loss, and yet it isn't tragic. It is optimistic. Perhaps that's it. Or is it the settings - Florence and Tunbridge Wells - two places my heart longs to visit? Or is it simply the characters? I have a list of favorite characters from novels - characters I think of as friends to one degree or another. However, “A Room with a View” features a cast of memorable players that swell my senses with fondness and exasperation and a genuine affection. Cousin Charlotte and Cecil Vyse are the foils - they are annoying, and yet both are imbued with their own quality and charms - one doesn't detest them anyway. Even though Lucy and George as the lovers are the protagonists, the characters I love best are Freddy Honeychurch, Mr. Beebe, the Miss. Alans and Eleanor Lavish [so often I find my heart gravitates toward the supporting actors in these dramas], but Mr. Emerson is my hero, so honest, insightful and endearing - a great old soul. One indelible scene follows another - dinner at the Pensione Bertolini, fainting in the Piazza Signoria, the kiss on the hillside and the violets, "How d'ye do? Come and have a bathe," lying to Mr. Emerson in the last chapter save one (a scene which always makes me weepy). The novel is a marvel of construction and economy, the prose lifts the reader to lofty heights of romance and fancy. I'm typing this with the book beside me (one of the four copies I have) referencing passages and thinking what a joy this was to read and perhaps I should read it again now.

That's wonderful. Thanks Ivan.

Hugh wrote: "If you haven't read Arctic Summer it is well worth reading..."
I agree. Did you not read it with the BYT group Nigey?

I didn't Val

Ivan wrote: "“I think that every reader on earth has a list of cherished books as unique as their fingerprints." - Douglas Coupland.

For me “A Room with a View” is one of those books.

I find it almost imposs..."

It is a lovely novel worth revisiting over and over. Wonderful reflections, Ivan!

When my situation is reduced and I'm forced to live in a studio apartment in some assisted living facility - this is one of books that will survive the move with me. I envision a tiny bookcase with room for maybe 100 books. It's a little game I play.

Ivan wrote: "When my situation is reduced and I'm forced to live in a studio apartment in some assisted living facility - this is one of books that will survive the move with me. I envision a tiny bookcase with..."

I don't think the rooms are usually that big. My mother had some piled on a table and on a bureau. Of course, once you go to assisted living you're usually beyond reading very much. Although they may have a library in a communal room.

Jan C wrote: "Ivan wrote: "When my situation is reduced and I'm forced to live in a studio apartment in some assisted living facility - this is one of books that will survive the move with me. I envision a tiny ..."

Perhaps the euphemism I'm looking for is "independent" living center. I know they have all different kinds. The expen$ive ones have "independent," "assisted" and then nursing home. I'd like the first please, and when it gets beyond that stage I'd rather just wake up smelling the roses and rhododendrons, my molecules dancing in rhythm with the music of the great life force which is the universe.

Ivan wrote: "Jan C wrote: "Ivan wrote: "When my situation is reduced and I'm forced to live in a studio apartment in some assisted living facility - this is one of books that will survive the move with me. I en..."

I think things got out of my mother's control. We took her to a very nice one where she actually had friends. But she wasn't prepared for it. And, then, the state/county took things out of our control when she started falling down. So, watch out for falling down and getting welfare workers in!

Jan C, how lovely to see you have joined us - welcome to the group :)

I have only read Room With a View and Passage to India - both many years ago now. I would certainly like to read more.

Susan wrote: "Jan C, how lovely to see you have joined us - welcome to the group :)

I have only read Room With a View and Passage to India - both many years ago now. I would certainly like to read more."

Thanks. I am continuing A Room with a View - I didn't like the audio, but I am finding it a little easier with print (I'm not sure if I am reading a book or e-book). Maybe it was just the beginning and maybe I had to get the cast of the movie out of my head. I know I have had to do that with other books when I have not particularly liked the casting.

A new adaptation of Howard’s End starts tonight on BBC1 9pm

Ivan wrote: "I'd rather just wake up smelling the roses and rhododendrons, my molecules dancing in rhythm with the music of the great life force which is the universe."


Sounds delightful Ivan

Thanks, Farrah.

Farrah wrote: "A new adaptation of Howard’s End starts tonight on BBC1 9pm"

I love the Merchant/Ivory so ardently it will be hard for me to watch the new.

Nigeyb wrote: "Ivan wrote: "I'd rather just wake up smelling the roses and rhododendrons, my molecules dancing in rhythm with the music of the great life force which is the universe."


Sounds delightful Ivan"

I've been thinking of my "Havisham twilight" lately.

I think I've read all E.M.Forster's novels and short stories. I did Passage to India for O Level, and was fascinated by the setting and the social attitudes of the characters so I went on to read his other books and found I loved them all just as much.

My favourite is The Longest Journey which starts with a group of student having a philosophical discussion about a cow in a field and whether it's still there if no one is there to see it. I thought that's what college was going to be all about!

I've yet to try any E.M. Forster but feel I need to put that right soon.


I have episode one of the new BBC adaptation of Howards End ready to go. Just now got the challenge of finding a slot when both my wife and I can watch it together.

Nigeyb wrote: "I have episode one of the new BBC adaptation of Howards End ready to go."


I've not read the book, or seen the film, so have nothing to compare it with, I'm not much of a lover of period drama, and yet, for all that, I thought episode one was superb. Brilliant cast. Great story - that has intrigued and surprised me so far. Fabulous attention to period detail.

The Wilcox and Schegel families make a great contrast between the privileged upper classes: one solid and conventional, the other romantic and intellectual.

Superb. Roll on episode two.

I will make a point of watching the film version of Howards End now and, at some point, reading the book too.

I just finished watching the first episode. It’s excellent. I love the highs and lows and how quickly everything changes and all the letter writing.

I loved the film, but I thought the first episode of the new series was very good too, though my mother thought the same horse and carriage turned up distractingly often.

Nigeyb wrote: "I've not read the book, or seen the film, so have nothing to compare it with, I'm not much of a lover of period drama, and yet, for all that, I thought episode one of the new BBC adaptation of Howards End was superb. Brilliant cast. Great story - that has intrigued and surprised me so far. Fabulous attention to period detail."

Episode two was every bit as good. Really charming adaptation. I'm entranced. Is the film as good as this? And the book?

The book is 'amazing' by Goodreads classifications; read it. The film is not a bad adaptation of it, but does leave out quite a lot and changes some details, as films tend to do. I have not seen all of the BBC version, but the bits I have seen do appear to follow the book.

Nigeyb wrote: "Nigeyb wrote: "I've not read the book, or seen the film, so have nothing to compare it with, I'm not much of a lover of period drama, and yet, for all that, I thought episode one of the new BBC ada..."

The Merchant Ivory film remains one of the most sublime movie going experiences of my life. From the opening segment with Redgrave walking through the wet grass looking into the windows of Howard's End and her family inside, touching her fingers to the pigs teeth in the tree...I knew they'd gotten it just right. Emma Thompson won an Oscar, Redgrave one of her many nominations, the script won, the film was nominated as Best of the year. Hopkins was terrific, Bonham-Carter lovely, Sam West as Lenard Bast. I saw in Santa Monica, CA the weekend it was first released.

Oh, the novel is a masterwork.

Thanks Val. Thanks Ivan.


Based on your comments I will both see the film and read the book. I will, of course, report back

Thanks again

I remember the book being good but I think I preferred most of his other novels which I read around the time or after the film adaptation of Maurice, many years a go now. Have not seen the series. Perhaps I should revisit...

Nigeyb wrote: "I've not read the book, or seen the film, so have nothing to compare it with, I'm not much of a lover of period drama, and yet, for all that, I thought episode one of the new BBC adaptation of Howards End was superb. Brilliant cast. Great story - that has intrigued and surprised me so far. Fabulous attention to period detail."

Nigeyb wrote: "Episode two was every bit as good. Really charming adaptation. I'm entranced. Is the film as good as this? And the book?"

And Episode three keeping the standard sky high - what a tale!

I hate it that your talking about this television adaptation...because it's not on yet over here and you're making me truly anxious to watch it.

I'm sure it will get there eventually Ivan. BBC period drama is a big seller abroad, which means they can afford to make the less commercial topical documentaries (and it keeps our licence fee down).

It will be worth the wait Ivan - it's just wonderful


The fourth and final part is next Sunday. I'll then be ready to watch the film version - which I have now acquired

Ivan wrote: "I hate it that your talking about this television adaptation...because it's not on yet over here and you're making me truly anxious to watch it."

Not sure if this helps or hurts (depending on your cable), but looks like it's coming to Starz:

https://blogs.weta.org/tellyvisions/2...

Miss M wrote: "Ivan wrote: "I hate it that your talking about this television adaptation...because it's not on yet over here and you're making me truly anxious to watch it."

Not sure if this helps or hurts (depe..."

I get Starz - I was just thinking I'd cancel, but now I'll wait.

It is not a bad adaption, but it does make Henry sillier than the book and Helen more rational.

Val wrote: "It is not a bad adaption, but it does make Henry sillier than the book and Helen more rational."


Interesting. I look forward to reading the book and watching the film. I already have the film ready to go. I've only watched 3 out of the 4 episodes and, so far, I adore it. Absolutely love it. I generally don't watch this sort of thing so I am quite surprised at my reaction. Perhaps I should start prioritising period dramas, Downton etc etc?

I think it's the cast that is really working for me. Every actor seems to be giving a wonderful performance. Even fairly minor characters (e.g. Bast's wife, or Tracey Ullman as the Aunt)

Prunella Scales played Aunt Juley in the film and her son Simon West played Leonard Bast. Oh, I'm just thinking you haven't watched episode four....

Downton is a soap opera. It's really rather fun, but a soap opera. The writing by Julian Fellowes is quite good, filled with acerbic one-liners delivered especially well by Dame Maggie. But it's not at all on the same level as Howard's End.